Poll: Entropy: The End?

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Seldon2639

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CuddlyCombine said:
I know I sound ridiculous, but think about it; entropy is the one unavoidable force of nature (of course, it's just a theory). Meteors we could theoretically deflect, a supernova we could escape, but entropy is everywhere and unstoppable. So, if humankind doesn't wipe itself out by then, we're screwed.

Let's talk science!
Yeah, but we're talking about something that's (a) way into the future (like, the sun expands, which we inexplicably survive, and then another few billion years), and (b) can't really be avoided. So, no need to stress.

Anarchemitis said:
Entropy is a fancy way of saying "The universe prefers chaos", as in naturally, if you throw a deck of cards in the air, entropy dictates that chances are they won't land stacked and ordered by suit.

Entropy is actually my main argument why Evolutionism is just as laughable as Christianity.
Not really. Entropy (in the purely physical sense) is not equivalent to chaos. Entropy is merely the tendency of all reactions (physical or chemical) to (a) evenly distribute energy, and (b) lose some amount of energy to the outside system. While entropy may cause what appears to be chaos in some circumstances (your example is inapt), to equate the two is fundamentally incorrect.

The reasons cards fall haphazardly if tossed into the air has little (if anything) to do with entropy. Air currents are responsible, since the cards actually float a little (low terminal velocity). Now, the basis of those air currents is entropic in nature (moving from high-concentration to low-concentration), but it's not the same concept.

Bear in mind that entropy is a measure of how likely a given ordering is, while disorder is the measure of violation of an ordering rule. if you take a piece of glass, which is an amorphous material (one whose atoms are disordered), and place it in a fridge to cool it down, you will not change the atom locations. The glass remains just as disordered, but its entropy decreases as its temperature drops. Energetically, the second law of thermodynamics favors the formation of the majority of all known complex and ordered chemical compounds directly from their simpler elements. Thus, contrary to popular opinion, the second law does not dictate the decrease of ordered structure by its predictions. It only demands a "spreading out" of energy when such ordered compounds are formed spontaneously.

I can get into the whole evolution as a selection criteria, which does allow for the creation of order (if there were a deck which was more likely to land ordered, and being ordered was something you wanted in your deck, wouldn't you buy more of that kind of deck? If you buy more of that kind, less of the other kinds will be made), but it might fall on deaf ears.
 

Abedeus

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Anarchemitis said:
Entropy is actually my main argument why Evolutionism is just as laughable as Christianity.
Yah, you are right. Let's go back to the days of old and sacrifice some animals to Zeus.

...Are you feeling fine?
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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Yes, Entropy will get us eventually, but its working at a very slow rate. Something else will get us first.
 

Aardvark Soup

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It is very unlikely humanity hasn't gone extinct before this happens, so I'd say that wouldn't be the end. And even if we're still alive by then: existence has begun once so also needs to end sometimes, doesn't it?
 

Maze1125

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Anarchemitis said:
Entropy is a fancy way of saying "The universe prefers chaos", as in naturally, if you throw a deck of cards in the air, entropy dictates that chances are they won't land stacked and ordered by suit.

Entropy is actually my main argument why Evolutionism is just as laughable as Christianity.
Do you even know what the word chaos even means in the context of science?
It does not mean randomness. It means unpredictability. Specifically, unpredictability that often results in amazingly complex structures.

So, if anything, if the universe tends towards chaos, that's an argument for Evolution, not against it.

Not that any of it matters, because entropy is a measure of usable energy in a closed system, not a measure of chaos, which is completely and utterly irrelevant to Evolution.

The moral of the story is, maybe you should know a damn thing about what you're talking about before you go thinking you know more about a subject than people who have been studying it for their entire lives.
 

ArmoredSandwich

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Mar 15, 2009
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Read Asimov's short story "The last question": http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm

Beautiful story about humanity and entropy.

If you read it: Google = _ AC???
 

New Troll

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Mar 26, 2009
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If humanity hasn't killed itself out, or been eradicated by a superior race by then, we'll still be long gone from the area. So no biggie. And if anyone is still hanging out in this sector, good riddance.

It'd be sort of like tearing down a condominium, and giving the residents trillions of years to move out. If they haven't by then, they're morons. No real loss to the universe.
 

Lazy Kitty

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May 1, 2009
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Plauged1 said:
At this point, I am more interested in this than 2012. One more fucking time I see a commercial, t-shirt, or math problem that dumbasses call proof, I will be the reason for 2012.

Anyway, it is just a theory; I would not worry until there is ground breaking proof. The so-called proof better not be a math problem...
When I read this I suddenly got the urge to start mass production of those t-shirts...
 

Zacharine

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Apr 17, 2009
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The 'heat death of Universe' problem, where eventually there will be no energy left to do work with and the universe will be an expanding, uniform goob of lifeless, cold matter or energy? Why should we care? By the time it would be becoming a problem of extinction for us, Andromeda and Milky Way will have collided with each other. Assuming we even survive the next few millions of years until our sun dies.

Don't fear too much of it, it will be far more likely that you die by a miniature meteor hit to the head than that the heat death of universe will affect you in any meaningful way.
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Veylon said:
It's not like a "everything blows up" destruction of the universe, it's more of a "all the stars burned out and now it's cold" end. Entropy is the snazzy physicist term.
Too bad there are so many stars... IT WILL TAKE FOREVER.

Billions of years? I want to say trillions of years.
 

RetiarySword

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Apr 27, 2008
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I'm normaly against this doomsday threads, but this is scientific to a degree (kelvin). Possibly, if the universe lives that long. But some scientists theorise that the universe expands and collapses in on itself indefinatly. So it could just be apart of a cycle.
 

A random person

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Entropy will eventually render the universe incapable of life or change and it will be irreversible within our own universe, but as long as life exists the heat death would have not happened. And you could argue since planets are pretty isolated, the heat couldn't conduct or convect into space thus staving off the heat death, though my understanding is pretty basic.

By the way, could someone explain how evolution supposedly violates the second law of thermodynamics? Creationist arguments are stupid, but that's just incomprehensible.
 

Overlord_Dave

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Mar 2, 2009
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Thermodynamics says we will eventually die out, but I'm sure we could survive for a while. Plus there may alternate sources of energy from extra dimensions predicted by various GUTs.
 

Lukeje

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A random person said:
By the way, could someone explain how evolution supposedly violates the second law of thermodynamics? Creationist arguments are stupid, but that's just incomprehensible.
They conveniently forget the fact that the Earth is not a closed system.
 

Joos

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Dec 19, 2007
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ElephantGuts said:
CuddlyCombine said:
ElephantGuts said:
Could you please explain how entropy is going to destroy the universe? I have no idea.
After the universe reaches maximum entropy, there's no free energy. No life, no movement, no survival, basically. I'm pretty sure it's only a theory, of course. But it could happen...
So, what, entropy keeps building up or something? Could you maybe link me to somewhere that explains this theory?
No mate, it is the other way around. it is really simple. Take a nice cozy oven. It is warm, and generates heat to the rest of the room. However, you need to feed the flames in the oven with matter to convert into heat to keep the room inhabitable. Imagine the room has a finite amount of logs in it. When you run out of logs, the oven will slowly cool down, and the room will become uninhabitable, because of the lack of heat.

That is entropy. The law that energy is constantly diminishing in conversion.

Here is a brief introduction to those scientificly inclined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy
 

Joos

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Dec 19, 2007
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Also, here is a rather interesting short story by Mr Asimov about entropy: The Last Question
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
 

ElephantGuts

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Joos said:
ElephantGuts said:
CuddlyCombine said:
ElephantGuts said:
Could you please explain how entropy is going to destroy the universe? I have no idea.
After the universe reaches maximum entropy, there's no free energy. No life, no movement, no survival, basically. I'm pretty sure it's only a theory, of course. But it could happen...
So, what, entropy keeps building up or something? Could you maybe link me to somewhere that explains this theory?
No mate, it is the other way around. it is really simple. Take a nice cozy oven. It is warm, and generates heat to the rest of the room. However, you need to feed the flames in the oven with matter to convert into heat to keep the room inhabitable. Imagine the room has a finite amount of logs in it. When you run out of logs, the oven will slowly cool down, and the room will become uninhabitable, because of the lack of heat.

That is entropy. The law that energy is constantly diminishing in conversion.

Here is a brief introduction to those scientificly inclined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy
Oh, so it's used up but more isn't created? Well that sucks. Why can't the universal lumberjack go out and cut more entropy logs?

Well, I guess we'll have plenty of other things to worry about before then anyway.
 

aww yea

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May 3, 2009
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just because entropies messing things up doesnt mean it wont go back?

your room gets messier and messier over time and eventually you tidy it and it starts again.
suns come from nebulae with enough gravity to pull themselves together, then they explode back into nebulae (or so i hear, im not an expert)

but the point still stands... thats what i think at least...