Poll: Equality vs Freedom

[richd213]

Increase equality and greater freedom will follow.

Freedom (economic at least) won't create equality.

How do you figure? We have 20 times the forced equality as we had 200 years ago, and we are nowhere close to as free as we were then.

If you even out the starting line for everyone as best you can then you'll get the freedom to do what you want.

 

[maninahat]

Your argument refutes itself. I'm just pointing this out. People in free nations generally prefer freedom because they know it is, in fact, the only way to ever attain any kind of security. People still living in or surrounded by primordial savagery generally haven't had the time or energy to discover this, yet.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Freedom does not attain security. Giving third world countries liberties or democracy does not trump giving them AIDS medicine or the means to survive. You can't stabilize Liberia by teaching its people the importance of "freedom". Freedom is the least of its problems. Let's look at China, for instance. It lacks many personal freedoms but it does not have a starving population and is (compared to most developing nations) fairly stable. It is free enough to allow for a crude capitalism to flourish and build up the economy, but business transactions can only work because of the stable legal infrastructure a government creates (concepts such as ownership, patenting, persecution of theft/fraud etc).

As the overall standard of living in China will gradually improve, only then will people take an interest in things like democratic reform. Democracy is an important component of a stable country in the long term, but it won't feed or protect a man's family in the short term. In terms of priorities, people will always be willing to ditch democracy if it saves their family. They are being perfectly logical by doing so.

 

[norwegian-guy]

Equality dosen't exist without the social freedoms implied in everyone being equal. Freedom without freedom is a lie because that implies that some people have more freedom than others.(not to be confused with realising freedom)In other words, you have both or you have neither.

 

[rokkolpo]

Increase equality and greater freedom will follow.

Freedom (economic at least) won't create equality.

It's always about economics.
Equality and freedom both.
By increasing equality you won't get more freedom, you'd get more things sure. But those will be assigned to you.
By increasing freedom you won't get more equality because people always want an edge over the other people.

In short, people want freedom, but cannot handle it.
And equality fails to make a person happy, because we all want to be better than the neighbour.

I myself am for freedom.
It grants a bigger shot at individual happiness.

 

[Nihilism_Is_Bliss]

With complete freedom, don't we also have total equality?

 

[rokkolpo]

I once read the Giver back in middle school. It was about a community that gave up choice and freedom for equality and "sameness". It might not be an accurate depiction (Its science fiction) But I choose freedom over equality ever since.

So you were influenced by ones man opinion.

Thats not very good.

Getting influenced happens faster than you think.
Everyone gets influenced by one man's opinion on a daily basis.

It's called media.

 

[Amphoteric]

So Anarchy vs Communism.

I'm going with equality

 

[Adam28]

True freedom is chaos, whatever rights there are in that country, there should be equality. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have some freedom though e.g. freedom of speech.

 

[Lim3]

I'm going to sound like a communist, but i would prefer equality.

 

[Wicky_42]

Equality in its extreme is Communism - and its historicaly been proved communism cant hold in the long run so freedom probably.

Vietnam, Laos and Cuba would like to disagree with you Corrupt humans and external forces tend to bring down Communism, not its ideology.

Not sure that you can go for just one with the exclusion of the other - I wouldn't want a society devoid of equality, nor would I want to be in one with no rules - I don't have fair in anarchy. I don't think I know enough to prefer one over the other in balance - freedom allows some of the worst traits of humanity to succeed over the better aspects, whilst too much enforced equality can become oppressive and repressive to progress. Politically I lean left, so I'd say equality I guess - the people who are more successful should help those in need.

 

[Wicky_42]

With complete freedom, don't we also have total equality?

No - the ruthless would defeat the compassionate, force would rule over intellect, society would crumble; you would have the opposite of equality.

 

[GraveeKing]

Equality, simply because - we already have freedom, and it's not exactly got us very far... if anything so called 'freedom' means we create issues for ourselves since, anyone who's got true freedom would have the ability to do whatever they want - no matter how dickish and terrible it is. Think about it, people like Westboro Baptist church, nazis, racsts and others extremists - what if THEY had 'complete freedom' it'd mean that anyone else would be pressurized into their views - and henceforth losing their own freedom.

Now if we were all equal on the other hand - people with silly views could believe what they like but wouldn't be able to cause any trouble, while we'd still be able to treat them no different to anyone else.

Pretty much in my view, perfect equality means you can strive for freedom afterwords.

 

[coolkirb]

everyone know we need both, otherwise your asking are you a communist or an anarchist, niether option is particularly good so you need to have curtaild freedom, in which the government provides equality of opprotunity.

 

[mightybozz]

Socialism is anti-social and although I have my own problems with the democratic system, that's at least better than forcing people to be equal instead of giving everyone a chance to do their thing.

I think there's a reason why two of the best things to choose for your country in Civ5 is Freedom and Rationalism.

Socialism works in theory and theory alone. Simply because few socialists really agree with how socialism should work and more often than not ends up being some sort of dictatorship.

I believe that a Socialist-Democracy would work with tolerant (and thus equal and free) society. This in turn would only work with an economical system that supports this structure, and there lies the problem.

Can we separate socialism from communism here? Communism is the extreme equality as developed from Marx, in everything would be distributed "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Socialism is not that extreme. All taxes are a form of redistribution of wealth, after all. The debate comes in how far you choose to interfere with the individual for the common good. I'm curious to know what you mean by "economical system that supports this structure".

Realistically co-operative ways of running society cannot work in the huge countries in which we live. Too many people and too much debate. A smaller society would be easier to make into a fair society.

Anyway, freedom v equality, or in the abstract, anarchy v equality. As several people have already observed, freedom for all cannot be secured through anarchy, because there will always be people selfish enough to screw each other over rather than working for the common good. Socio-economic factors continue to crush the chances of actual freedom for people in so many different areas. Therefore, in order to secure freedom for everyone, you have to have some law in place to ensure equality for all. Once everyone is equal, then they can develop themselves in freedom as they see fit.

 

[Gerdneek]

We should all be Equally Free.

I'd vote for you sir! But I like it simple and to the point. Thank you x

 

[funguy2121]

Recently, I was listening to talk radio with my father, and the pundit brought up something very interesting. He brought up freedom and equality, and their role in society. So, Escapists, what should civilization strive for more? Are there more important ideals to be focused on? Please discuss.

Poll is broken! I called it!

How are these two mutually exclusive? I read the OP for clarity, and didn't find any. Without details, your pundit is sounding like a charlatan.

Specifics and context, please!

 

[Kair]

Freedom without equality is not freedom, it is barbarism. Your freedom is not worth more than that of your peers.

It is also impossible to have equality without the freedom of every individual (equality requires equal participation).

Any way, to use the word 'freedom' in a world of mental sickness does not make sense.

 

[mionic]

Equality is communism, freedom is democracy. To have both you must be either Switzerland or Luxembourg. The 2 neutral countries.

and sweden. or, well, at least we claim to be, and officially are

 

[Brandon237]

Freedom, if you have freedom you can do the rest and know about your society, if you are given complete equality it may very well lead to a communistic living hell.

 

[mightybozz]

Guys, freedom does not equal democracy. Freedom = no constraints or rules at all = anarchy.