Poll: Everything is pirated!

[Sylveria]

Hey everybody!

Are you against used game sales? Heck, are you against used sales in general? Do you believe that buying a used game, movie, book, etc is as bad as piracy? Do you believe that if you don't buy new that the developers are getting screwed because they don't get their fair cut? Do you think renting games is just as bad as buying used or piracy? Cause you should! Well if you agree with those things,do I have some news for you! You are pirating something RIGHT NOW!

Look to your left, now look at me, now to your right, now to me, now and 47 other directions, now back to me. Where are you? Are you in an internet cafe? If so, this doesn't apply to you, OR does it!? But if you're in a house, a hotel, an apartment, cardboard box in an alley, you, sir or madame are a pirate! Yes you are!

Hi my name is Vid E. O'Publisherman and you are pirating the building your living in. What do you mean what do I mean? You're pirating that building. Did you build it? No? Did you have it built brand new? No? You bought it it from the previous owners or a real-estate broker you say? Well good crap man you should be in jail as we speak. I'll give you a moment to go turn yourself in. Go on, you're a criminal, get on the phone and start your journey to the pokey. What do you mean you have no idea what I'm rambling on about? Oh well allow me to explain, you disgusting criminal scum.

See we believe that when you buy used, you are cutting the creators and distributors out of the exchange of money. You are profiting from their product and they receive no compensation. That, you rancid pile of thieving vomit, is a crime known as "Theft" or as the cool kids call it "piracy."

Now, you're in a structure of some sort. I'm sure you paid money to the Game-Stop of buildings known as a Real-estate broker, or maybe a bank if you're really rotten. See these companies didn't make that house either. That house was made by a construction company, an architect, and some other contractors. Once they designed and built that house, they sold it to someone. That person used it for a while and eventually sold it to someone else with a broker of some sort organizing the sale. That broker got paid, the former owner got paid, but what about that architect, that construction company, and all those men and women that spent their time and effort to build that home? Nothing, not a penny. They were the developers, they are entitled to some of that money since, after all, they made it.

So today is the day we say "No more." Pre-owned/used sales are piracy, they deprive the developer from money made from repeated sales and it has to stop. We need to spread the word that if you didn't build it, you don't own it, regardless of how much money you paid for it. I believe we all must act to put an end to pre-owned sales, ALL pre-owned sales. No used games, no used movies, no used books, no used cars, no used computers, no yard sales, no garage sales, no home-sales. Everything must be made new and bought new. You want to move? A new house must be built. You want to drive? A brand new car must be purchased. You want to game? A brand new copy must be purchased. Your old home, car, game, etc? Burn it to the ground for all I care, but don't even dream of selling it.. unless you support piracy!

You think that's insane you say? Well of course YOU would say that, you're a pirate! Sitting there in your pirated house on your pirated computer, maybe even living with your pirated parents. What? Oh, yeah, people are pirated to. Do you think your dad paid your mom's parents for her? They made her, they deserve compensation. Everything is pirated!

Thank you, and see you in jail,

Vid E. O'Publisherman
Super President of EubiA Tendovisionsofty

 

[GoaThief]

How can you compare tangible objects like a house to an intellectual property? Very different things.

A more accurate analogy would be a designer coming up with amazing new house plans which become very sought after. The designer owns the rights to the plans and sells it on to third party contractors to build, so you decide to copy (steal) his plans (intellectual property) and build yourself a house without paying him his dues. You then build houses for your friends and family using the same plans and word gets out. Soon you're using stolen plans to build houses for entire towns and cities without paying the original owner of the plans a penny, leaving him very much out of pocket.

Yeah, it's not great analogy but it will do. Point is they are quite different and analogies in general are not the best manner in which to approach and discuss the subject.

 

[Aris Khandr]

What if the realtor you bought the house from worked for the company that built the house? Because that was the case in my situation. And, should I ever move again, it will be into a house that has been built by someone that I specifically paid to build a house for me. So where does that fall in your absurd scenario?

 

[krazykidd]

How can you compare tangible objects like a house to an intellectual property? Very different things.

A more accurate analogy would be a designer coming up with amazing new house plans which become very sought after. The designer owns the rights to the plans and sells it on to third party contractors to build, so you decide to copy (steal) his plans (intellectual property) and build yourself a house without paying him his dues. You then build houses for your friends and family using the same plans and word gets out. Soon you're using stolen plans to build houses for entire towns and cities without paying the original owner of the plans a penny, leaving him very much out of pocket.

Yeah, it's not great analogy but it will do. Point is they are quite different and analogies in general are not the best manner in which to approach and discuss the subject.

I think he was talking about used sales more than downloading an actual game .

OT: this made me laugh , love how you write . Guess i have to buy an eyepatch and a wooden leg now :/

 

[evilneko]

This is far too long for a simple: Pirating is not as black and white as everyone thinks.

And reading it over again, it's convoluted. I dont think you can make a good argument for pirating that starts with "ARE U PAYING RENT" or "DID UR DAD PAY A DOWRY"

Let's stick with feasible arguments not silly rhetoric.

You don't do very well with satire I take it.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

This is far too long for a simple: Pirating is not as black and white as everyone thinks.

And reading it over again, it's convoluted. I dont think you can make a good argument for pirating that starts with "ARE U PAYING RENT" or "DID UR DAD PAY A DOWRY"

Let's stick with feasible arguments not silly rhetoric.

You don't do very well with satire I take it.

This is pretty terribly satire, to be fair.

 

[savandicus]

I'd like to point out that rented accomodation doesnt fit into your analogy as it can be accurately compared to a MMORPG pay to play system. But I could go report my landlord for having bought a used house, although I'll go check that he didn't buy it new just incase.

 

[Dandark]

Snip

You sir are my hero.
Have an internet.

 

[poundingmetal74]

////Do you believe that buying a used game, movie, book, etc is as bad as piracy? Do you believe that if you don't buy new that the developers are getting screwed because they don't get their fair cut?////

Buying a used anything is NOT piracy, or stealing, or morally wrong. Is buying a "used" home from someone stealing? Is buying a used car stealing because Chrysler doesn't get paid for the car again. Is buying a used CD stealing because Metallica doesn't get paid it's 85 cent cut again? Absolutely not. Just because a publisher doesn't get paid twice on a product doesn't make games somehow this holy mecca where the creator of something can be paid multiple times. The guys who framed your house aren't paid part of the cut when you sell your house to someone else.

Just because game companies may view Game Stop as having an unfair advantage when it comes to selling used games, and because they're losing money doesn't make them in the right. They got their $35 cut or whatever it is for the retail of a $60 game initially. If they're so concerned about getting screwed, start selling $60 for $50 straight from your website where you can keep all of the profits (I know retail agreements don't allow for this in many cases, but if the system is supposedly screwing developers, it's time for them to renegotiate or change the system altogether).

Things like Project $10 have already started allowing publishers to get paid multiple times. I personally believe this is wrong and refuse to buy games that do this. In voting with my dollar, I aim to affect a system of change I find more desirable as a consumer.

 

[jklinders]

Wow.


Comparing tangible items to intellectual property in a piracy debate. That has never been done before./sarcasm

While there is every possibility that you understand the issue better than your post suggests to all appearances you do not.

Before you flame the hell out me, understand that I believe that copyright law needs to be re-addressed as part of an effort to curtail the more harmful effects of copyright theft. This is not the way to do it.

If this was satire, fine. It just wasn't very funny.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

I retired from piracy when I reached the age where I could get in trouble for it.

 

[kouriichi]

While i could never take this literally, i can see the big point here.

Technically, the way the governments and corporations want it to be, anything you dont pay for, your pirating. Breathing air? Unless its from your own oxygen tank, your pirating it, and in fact, LITERALLY ruining it for everyone around you because you expel carbon-dioxide.

The truth behind the whole "pirating" thing is, if you make a product people WANT to pay for, they will pay for it. I bought Skryim. I know i could have DL'd it same night it came out, in full working condition, actually saving me money on gas there and back, and allowing me to continue eating food other then ramen for a month.

But Skyrim is WORTH 60$. Sure, people will still pirate it. But not as many. My mom may have pirated a few DVD's in her day. But if youve seen the box of actual purchased videos she owns, you would crap yourself. 300+ DVD's, several tv show box sets, collectors editions, just hundreds of movies of every genre. Why would she pirate a few? To see if they were even worth purchasing to begin with.

If i know a movie is going to be great, i'll happily pay for a ticket, buy a bucket of overpriced cardboard they call popcorn, and a 6$ cup of sugar water to see it. Piracy isnt the problem. Decline in quality is. If they make products better, at a lower price, people with buy it in mass. ((AND DONT SAY THEY WONT. Minecraft. Terraria. Dungeon Defenders. Pineapple Smash Crew. Sanctum. Rock of Ages. Limbo. You could make 1000+ indie games for the budget of Duke Nukem: Forever, and most of them would probably be BETTER.))

 

[Pebblig]

I have a large Schooner named "Enterprise", a crew of 30 men, an eye patch (despite the fact I have two functioning eyes), a tricorn hat, plenty of booty, a hide-out, a wooden leg, two flint lock pistols on my hips, a beard, a curly moustache and one gold hoop earring.

So yeah, as far as pirates go I'd say I'm pretty huge.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

How can you compare tangible objects like a house to an intellectual property?

good point. let me try.
Okay, so you go on Wikipedia. You read the wiki page of an episode of House to find out the name of that song that was on it because it's stuck in your head. Then you get bored and read the whole page. Then you think 'What is that paraneoplastic thingy they always bring up?' so you read its wiki page.
Congratulations, you just learned what paraneoplastic syndrome is for free (except the cost of the internet, assuming it's yours and not a friends or an internet cafe's). But the page was probably written by someone who paid a medical school, or bookshop selling medical journals, for the information. They then gave it away for free.
Now imagine that info is a game.

 

[Fat Hippo]

I have a large Schooner named "Enterprise", a crew of 30 men, an eye patch (despite the fact I have two functioning eyes), a tricorn hat, plenty of booty, a hide-out, a wooden leg, two flint lock pistols on my hips, a beard, a curly moustache and one gold hoop earring.

So yeah, as far as pirates go I'd say I'm pretty huge.

What, but still both hands? No hook? And no parrot neither?

You're practically a bleedin' LANDLUBBER, say I! No pirate, but a goody two-shoes, water drinkin', beard washin' LANDLUBBER!

 

[Booze Zombie]

I enjoy a good bit of satire.

 

[C-Mag]

Snip

Snip (Specifically aimed at your first paragraph, the other paragraphs I actually kinda agree with.)

First off, I know it's satire. But good satire makes a clever and/or interesting point about the subject material. Though the writing is good, this is bad satire because it actually has very little to do with the subject.

The problem is that what you described relates to an entirely different market system than that used by the video-games industry.

With a house, all the builder or contractor or whatever has to do is get paid more than he spent when building said house. He has made a profit, end of story. It is a market system based not on customers, but on a single client. Not so with video-games.

Video-games can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce, and basic common sense tells us that that kind of moolah will not turn a profit if the product sells only once. A video-game must sell multiple, and I mean MULTIPLE copies in order to turn that same profit.

Let me break into a minor tangent for a moment.

The fundamental principle of any economic system is that something of value is created and then sold for slightly more than the cost of creation, this turns a profit. When a house is built, the item of worth that is created is the physical house. The builder of the house than gets paid slightly more than the initial cost of the house (yes this is basic, sorry), they turn a profit and can wipe their hands of the matter. The value of the house remains; it has merely changed hands. When the house is sold, if the owner kept it clean and maybe spruced it up a bit, they can sell it for slightly more money than they paid. It matters not whether they do, the fact remains that they were at least reimbursed. But, and here's the important part, THE BUILDER HAS NOT LOST ANY PROFIT. They have already profited on their work and no longer have any relevance.

The item of worth that the developer has created is not a physical object, but a certain amount of entertainment. This is an ethereal product, existent only in the mind, and the physical disk is merely the conveyor of the product. When you pay new for a videogame, you are directly paying the publisher for their work, but you are not giving them profit. As I said before, they must sell a certain amount of copies in order to make that profit.

And here's the kicker; when you buy a used game, they don't get paid. The physical copy of the game has been bought from them once, but their actual product, those hours of entertainment that cost so much to produce, has been sold TWICE, and they didn't get the money from that second transaction.

I tried to painfully twist it into your analogy, saying it's ALMOST as if the builder built two houses, and was relying on the sale of both to make a profit, but someone bought one and then acted as though they had bought both, and sold the second one to others, but even that doesn't work. It's analogy proof. Apples and oranges.

This is why I always try and buy my games new, and also why I (for the most part) support the practice of limiting some game content to only those who bought it new.

In any case, I hope this has been, illuminating.

EDIT:
But not Spore's DRM, that thing was shit. Yay. I can play the game on three different computers simultaneously. WHOOP-DE-F***EN-DOO. For God's sake, just make it so it only plays from the disk.

 

[GoaThief]

OT: This thread is good for one thing if nothing else, to prove how many of the escapist forum users, as a point of fact, don't bother to read an OP before starting to post...

Oh I think people do, it's just that if it was indeed satire (which I'm still not convinced) it was awfully unfunny. Even then, most of the points raised still remain perfectly valid and worthy of discussion concerning piracy and used games.

People really do need to wake up, from inside experience the music industry is far from healthy (especially the smaller independents and the like) and the vast majority of it's ills directly relate to the rise of widespread piracy on the internet. Many of the smaller artists and labels are not completely against moderates and second hand sales of CDs, but when one person buys and downloads a DRM free album costing £5 then shares it with half a million people which results in almost zero sales whilst the artist can not afford to feed their family then there's a serious problem that needs to be addressed (real world example).

Moving on to the second hand music market, how many of those stores actually remain? Growing up there was at least one in every minor town, now it's lucky to see one in a major city (at least here in the UK). I can only see game retailers following suit in the future. There is a culture surrounding used games that never really existed with music either, I'm guessing cost may be a factor for this (although some rare albums command a higher price) - so I can understand and have no objections to initiatives like Project Ten Dollar. Intrusive DRM is not acceptable, however. Valve seem to have managed their DRM superbly, unlike say any company that uses SecuROM as an alternative. Pirates need to become responsible, just as some companies need to realise that draconian measures are punishing their paying customers and driving others away. I'll be in shock the day either of those happen.

It's funny though, almost all of the above will be wasted typing and space. I've yet to encounter a single person who has changed their opinion (whatever their stance), or even questioned themselves on the subject from a forum discussion.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I enjoy a good piece of satire.

Unfortunately, this isn't it.

 

[lRookiel]

Hehehe, 'twas mildly amusing. Now, back to my life.....