Poll: Evolution and the other side

[iLikeHippos]

What's with all the evolution vs. creation threads?
And religion vs. science/atheism threads, in general?
They're rampant. Stop making them. No-ones mind ever gets changed on the Internet.

Pretty much this... In addition, this is gradually, and most likely have, diverted from the original topic at hand, and meta-morphed now towards a battle of the egos. No one wins so long as everyone wears the shield of stubbornness!

How about something relevant and refreshing for once? Like an indi-cola?
But alas, I took my time to look it up and comment on my own free will.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

scientific evidence for creation? *giggle*
yeah i did this on a seminar at santa's workshop, i had an huge argument with nessy and the toothfairy there, they said those fossils are just dug up to confuse us.

 

[Grand_Arcana]

Yes. It's all BS and I find it insulting to my intelligence.

But just to play along: Which of these do not belong

1.Wolf

2.Red Fox

3.African Hunting Dog

4. Hoary fox

Spoiler: Answer

All of them. They are neither the same Genus nor the same species.

 

[Nayr]

I'm a big enthousiast of evolution. Being a biology graduate this year sort of helps that opinion. But from when I was very young until I was about 19 I was a very devout Christian. I just found that evolution made so much more sense and everything about creationism seemed so wrong. I like to think there is a higher power which gives life a meaning when you die, but I'm skeptical now.

I like Stephen Hawking's arguement where he describes that in creationism there is a begining and that God created everything. However based on current scientific opinion there is no begining with the big bang, it just happened and there is no prior to the big bang, therefore in his arguement there is no God.

But to answer OP directly, yeah I always thought God was absolute and read the bible and I really like a lot of the religion arguements on the History Channel. But I can't be so naive to not accept other ideas like evolution and to decide for myself which I think is true. Also a good read is the Biology of Belief.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Evidence for creationism? Have the cdesign proponentsists found anything new since last week? Because I am aware of no evidence.

 

[crudus]

Yes I have. I have actually played devil's advocate in some arguments against evolution (and won a few).

if you'd like to discuss any any know evidence for evolution with me send me a pm i don't want any fighting here.

(ill send you a pm soon to talk about some of the things i find highly "unscientific" but right now i just want to watch my topic you understand right?)

If you don't mind, I would like to get in on that too.

Also, the amount of people in this thread who say that we involved from monkeys or apes make me sad. Just...*sigh* I give up.

Apes are just a superfamily called Hominoidea. Biology(Taxonomy to be precise) has us classified as "ape" or "Hominoidea". Evolution does in fact claim we evolved from apes, and biology claims we are still apes.

 

[Yopaz]

No because there isn't any.

Scientific creationism is an oxymoron.

Zing! My thought exactly!

And if anyone watched the movie it's just a complete load of bullshit. Why wont a professor debate against a religious person? Because they are too brainwashed to ever admit they're wrong even with tons of proof against what they're saying.

The dinosaurs did not live a million years ago, the earth is 6000 years old because that's what the bible says.

This isn't any bloody science! It's ramblings from a man who's read a fairy tale book and quotes it to prove that he is right. I can quote a medical book that's 200 years ago and claim that it's true you should treat burn wounds with red jelly fish. Scientific proof for creation is impossible. You can't prove creation out of nothing and claim that it is science. Science is all about using tests and knowledge and putting things together. Creationism can't be proved. However from a scientific point of view that also means we can't prove that it's not real. However we got an option to creationism that we have evidence for which means we choose the hypothesis that can be backed up with physical data and call that a theory.

 

[Kuroneko97]

I spent one and a half years at a Catholic school.

When I left, I was an Athiest.

Why? Because I've slowly found that religious people(mainly Christians) have a habit of trying to force down your throat their religion. The best example of this are Jehovah's witnesses. (And since they KNOW my family's of Hispanic origin, they always send the Hispanics with little kids.)

Religious people(mainly Christians) also seem to have this switch in their brain, which automatically turns on when someone tries to tell them a belief other than their religion. This switch prevents them from taking in any information said by the other person, and translates it all into "Your ideas are fucking stupid! YOUR IDEAS ARE FUCKING STUPID!!!" Don't believe me? Try to have a well-mannered debate with a "Catholic" about abortion. Count how many seconds it takes for them to start lashing out at you.

So with that in mind, here's my opinion of Creationism:

Evolution says that the changes in technology and life came by slowly in gradually, as we adapted to our surroundings.

Creationism says that everything we have was made by some guy whom you MUST believe in, since you can't PROVE he doesn't exist, and that supposedly every creature exists due to this guy.

To me, this is like a mouse trying to fight an Onix.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I always say science is gods magic explained, if you don't get it trade in the false life you saved and get a new one.

 

[oktalist]

"A witty quote proves nothing" Voltaire.

"Audiences are always better pleased with a smart retort, some joke or epigram, than with any amount of reasoning."
Charlotte Perkins Gilman

his moral system is his moral system i know i know its irrelevant but at the same time it is a interesting question isnt it?

The Bible says to shun menstruating women and to kill the non-believers. Now assuming those do not form part of this moral system, why do they not? He must have some moral system external to his religion, which he can use to determine which parts of the Bible to ignore. So he himself disproves his assertion that you can't have morals without religion.

And as was said by someone in another thread recently: Seriously, if you have any scientific evidence for creationism or against evolution, science REALLY wants to know about it. You will be world famous and win a Nobel prize.

[Creationism] fails as a philosophical theory just because it destroys the point of philosophy. Clarity.

Maybe a theological 'theory'?

What do you call it when you suggest that something is true but have no way of knowing if it is?

A guess.

Do you know how many wild metaphysical guesses mankind has made over the centuries, in the various cultures he has created? Neither do I, but I know this, it's an utterly ridiculous number. Do you have any idea how many people have declared themselves to be God's messenger? It's utterly breathtaking. There are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity alone. Each one claiming that it alone knows The Truth.

(The above is quoted from the very funny and excellent book Scepticism Inc. by Bo Fowler, which I highly recommend.)

 

[grimgor42]

OP: you are a silly and ignorant troll. There is plenty of evidence for evolution, no it is not unstable, it is taught as fact in most colleges. If you are going to have this thread, then enlighten us on how evolution could be wrong? If you try saying it's just a theory, then I'll be glad to inform you that gravity is just a theory, but we all have no problem believing that. The definition of a scientific theory is different then what most people assume. So be quiet and stop making smart and educated people angry at you.

 

[Stall]

There is no scientific evidence for creation, because IT ISN'T SCIENCE. It's theology.

If such evidence doesn't exist, then how is it possible to study it?

 

[Yopaz]

Yes I have. I have actually played devil's advocate in some arguments against evolution (and won a few).

if you'd like to discuss any any know evidence for evolution with me send me a pm i don't want any fighting here.

(ill send you a pm soon to talk about some of the things i find highly "unscientific" but right now i just want to watch my topic you understand right?)

If you don't mind, I would like to get in on that too.

Also, the amount of people in this thread who say that we involved from monkeys or apes make me sad. Just...*sigh* I give up.

Apes are just a superfamily called Hominoidea. Biology(Taxonomy to be precise) has us classified as "ape" or "Hominoidea". Evolution does in fact claim we evolved from apes, and biology claims we are still apes.

OK... so you got some facts right there, but NO educated biologist will tell you humans evolved from apes. We have the same origin as the modern ape, we did NOT evolve from apes. Apes or hominoidea is as you said a super family and neither super family nor super group is a good phylogenic way to arrange things. They're there because it's more convenient than the normal divisions. You might claim there is no difference between saying we evolved from apes and had the same origin, but every biologist curse the man who first said that. It's the statement that is the root to the creationist defense "Then why didn't all apes end up as humans?". What we evolved from is a specie that is extinct a long time ago.

 

[fenrizz]

Studied the scientific evidence for creation?

Of course not.
There is no such thing as scientific evidence for creation.

Irreducable complexity?
Oh please. Every god damn time the scientific community explains/proves one of your "irreducably complex" organs, you just go "Oh yeah, but this one over here you can't explain!".

And sure, science may not be able to explain your examples right away.
But that does not mean that your god did it.

Finding a small hole in a theory, a minor inaccuracy or something we can not yet explain does not make evolution invalid.
It only means that there is still work to be done.

Now please leave your fairytale out of our science.

 

[Monkey lord]

what scientific evidence ?

 

[Active Schizophrenic]

I for me It was the other way around I was creationist, studied evolution, evolution was more factually accurate, accept evolution as fact, still be christian. also to the asshole's who claim there is NO creationism evidence there is a lot of it and you must be really ignorant if your just going to ignore such a wide-spread belief and stick your head in the ground. Its like the westboro church of atheism in here.

P.S. lots of people looking for their Hot topic badges recently, eh?

 

[Naeo]

As a physics major in college and a science geek in high school, I can pretty certainly say that it is impossible to "scientifically" research creationism/intelligent design because they are unfalsifiable hypotheses. That is, there is no way to disprove them, but not for lack of contradicting evidence. They cannot be disproved because they cannot be tested. So in turn, they cannot be proved, and thus, are not science. Anyone who tries to claim that these untestable hypotheses are science and should be taught as science are, frankly, completely ignorant as to what science is, how it works, and so on.

 

[BRex21]

I watched that video, that guy is an idiot. He ignores ring species and uses arguments along the lines of "why can't my corn produce hampsters?" he thinks evolution should contain the origins of the universe and he uses massive hypocrisy in his points on willful ignorance.
If you think this guy has a point, you obviously never gave evolution a chance.

 

[CrazyMedic]

based on my research really the only creationist thing that makes sense is the baker theory basically god did not say "I think I will make a dinosaur today" but created the baby universe and caused the big bang knowing what would come from it like a baker baking a cake.

 

[Hyper-space]

snip

How much of a serious look do you need when deciding which has more merit:

Something that is backed up by fossils, carbon-dating, mountains of evidence and has been proven time and time again,

Or...

Some shit that people pulled from thousands of years old fairy-tales that says that the earth is 4000 years old and man was made from dirt.

I mean, really, you have to be mads kinds of retard to even consider the latter option.

EDIT:

But we are apes. What we evolved from would technically be classified as an ape. The common ancestor we share with modern apes, I would argue, is still an ape.

There will be a common ancestor even farther back, one shared by all modern primates, that would not have been an ape. But to say that our species didn't evolve from an ape is rather an odd claim to make.

PRIMATES, not APES. Fuck.