My point was that organisms changing over time is a fact. We have seen it in a lab.Twilight_guy said:
Poll: Evolution Yay or Nah?
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Yeah essentially all of science is theory, its our best guess for what happens around us. Kinda reminds me of what I put for my philosophy of science module, I basically put that whilst religion and science are in a lot ways similar (both draw upon the world around us, people use it to explain what around us and people will do everything and anything to defend it) but the fundamental difference is that whilst religion stays stuck with the same theory no matter the amount of opposing evidence, science adapts and changes within limits (we don't throw a theory away because of one anomaly) a great quote of this was from Richard Dawkins who told of a professor he knew that for 30 years had stood by and taught a theory which he had the up most trust in being fact, then one day one of his students shows him a newer more compelling theory which using new evidence proves the theory he had been teaching for 30 years was wrong, and all the professor said was "Thank you for enlightening me young man". I know its not really linked to the above argument but principally we take theory as fact until a time where it is proven false, otherwise you could never use that theory in the real world. But also never get the theory and the phenomena confused, life will always change over time regardless if evolution is proven false in the future but at this moment we should treat it as fact, atleast thats my opinion on it.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Ya that reply was pretty pointless and didn't have anything to with my post and nowhere in the bible does it say that god created heaven directly above earth. especially in genesis. it also kind of seems that you have no idea what you are talking about. and I believe the bible is more than just a story with good morals if I did, why would of I based my life around it? Also god's world was perfect until halfway through genesis 3 and then sin ruins it all. and if god thought the world was perfect why did he send his son to die for it imperfection? I think you just have a very misinformed view of the bible.boyvirgo666 said:
I fully believe in evolution. But I know evolution is an all powerful force, but is ultimately blind. And often makes mistakes that lead to failure. But life still goes on one way or another. And just that it's imperfect makes it all the more believable.
Evolution for the win. Creationalism is more poorly written, and worse thought out than the spider-man musical. Lrn 2 understand how evolution works. Inb4 hate.
Evolution for the win. Creationalism is more poorly written, and worse thought out than the spider-man musical. Lrn 2 understand how evolution works. Inb4 hate.
I believe in creation and evolution. Creation explains things beginning and coming into existence, evolution explains everything else. I don't think the Bible is meant to be taken literally all of the time, so God being the all-time master of Rube-Goldberg machines makes sense.
If I was an omnipotent and omniscient being who has existed forever, I might entertain myself with a massive Rube-Goldberg machine.
If I was an omnipotent and omniscient being who has existed forever, I might entertain myself with a massive Rube-Goldberg machine.
Yep. The term "evolution" generally implies a bit more then that is all. Be careful with how you word things, misunderstands from using the incorrect word have caused humanity lots of pain.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I always thought it was yay or nay
Seems I've been missing trains a lot lately too
OT: MEH, we're here now, we'll end someday, what does it matter
Seems I've been missing trains a lot lately too
OT: MEH, we're here now, we'll end someday, what does it matter
Genesis 1:6-8Active Schizophrenic said:
nd it was to comment on other silly things the bible says.
And God said,boyvirgo666 said:
Wait genesis 1 6-8 says: And God said, ?Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.? 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault ?sky.? And there was evening, and there was morning?the second day." you tell me how that means he literally formed heaven above earth? it doesn't even say the word "heaven" or "kingdom of god" or anything of the sort at all! It only says sky! isn't that silly how the bible says the sky is above the ocean!? What a ridiculous notion!
Well, kind of. I'm a Christian (come at me bro) but I don't think that humans were the first things god created. I think god kind of just created the earth, screwed around with it for however long (his "six days and sunday") because dinosaurs are awesome, and THEN created us.
The definition you provide, while correct, does not preclude that a theory cannot in eventuality be proven as fact.Cerrida said:
However, a Scientific Theory is one that, while still conjectural, has survived scruitiny and conjecture through experimental rigor.
It's not just 'conjecture', it's conjecture that's backed up by continued research and experimentation. Yes, a single experiment can prove it wrong. However, unlike 'theories' like Young Earth Creationism, no single experiment has been able to, and god knows both those who are for AND against evolution have tried.
Non-scientific journal is non-scientific.
And is not the only technique used to date old materials, which ARE reliable. Scientists usually use multiple techniques, which have a tendancy to corroborate. That's because science like to be thurough, and always doubts itself.
Even the ones which are directly taken from actual embryos and have citations noted in their bibliographies and can be independantly verified!?!
Except, "macro-evolution" has been observed to occur, multiple times, in nature, and in the laboratory.
Observed phenomenon is observed.
The bible states that God is incapable of lying.Active Schizophrenic said:
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
The bible states that man is capable of lying.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
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So thusly, we have the bible stating unequivocably that God will not, and is not capable of falsehood, but that man in contrast is capable of falsehood.
The observations of the universe show that, given what we can observe, it is billions of years old. However, the bible indicates that the universe is considerably less than that, only a few thousand years old... the birth of Adam plus a week or so.
If the bible's accounting is correct, then God put the evidence of the heavens in the sky in such a way that we'd come to a false conclusion. In other words, he put false information in the night sky. As god cannot lie, we know this to be impossible. So therefore, if God exists, the universe must be billions of years old.
On the other hand, we know the bible is written by men. According to that same bible, men can lie, and therefore the bible may contain mistruths, as it is written, and retranslated by men, who may be telling mistruths about their divine inspiration--something the bible explicitly warns about.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
So the question then becomes the idea of which must you believe?
Do you believe the bible, the work of men, or the universe, God's creation itself?
I personally accept Evolution as fact. If people don't that's understandable. There's a reason Evolution should be taught in public schools, because it's scientific. If someone doesn't like the course material, they can opt out. But don't shove your religion down my throat and expect me to believe. Why can't we just stop this damn pissing war? I know for a fact that Science and Religion can co-exist, but someone always thinks they're right and that other people must be told they're wrong. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Science and Religion-as-concept can co-exist.Free Thinker said:
However, Science, and specific religions cannot co-exist where said religion preaches things as facts that can be proven to be false.
Having the right to religion is important, and one I respect. However, religious tenets are only sacred to its adherents. The tenets of a religion I do not believe in are in no way sacred to me, and nor should I be beholden to them simply 'out of respect.' Freedom of religion must include freedom FROM religion.
And if science, the expanding knowledge base of mankind, can quantifyably prove your religion has a tenet that simply cannot be true, then that's simply that. That religious tenet has now been shown to be a fairy tale. A fiction. Something some guy made up.
It should still be taught, in the same way that we teach Greek myth and Norse myth--it gives us an understanding of the people those beliefs arise from. However, no one teaches Greek myth-as-fact. No one teaches Norse-myth as fact. And once a religious tenet is proven false by empirical data, then no one should teach that tenet as fact either, for it is no different than any other myth.
That is implying it is impossible to do both. The way I see the bible is that it is gods manual of how to live your life in him and how people have done it in the past. also I find that it shows how not to as well and that for all the mistakes you make you can be forgiven. It is true things get lost or skewed in translations but then again, the books I ancient its crazy how much of it we actually kept from over the years when translating things from Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek to English meanings of words change along with a dated language itself. God wasn't a science teacher either, his book was written in a way that would be understood by the people at the time. How would Jesus be able to teach people who live in homes made out of stone how evolution works? or the creation of the universe? Not everything In the bible is meant to be taken %100 seriously as times have changed we have seen the world it round and seen how evolution works. If you went back in time to the old testament something we know is an absolute fact, like gravity for example would of gotten you stoned. I think that the things we know know can be used as evidence to re-form who and what god is and not how people from a thousand years ago saw him.DracoSuave said: