Poll: Excommunication

[PlasticPorter]

The current Pope is in the process of unexcommunicating several Bishops one of whom holds the view that the holocaust didn't happen. This has angered many Jews and Catholics who believe that these Bishops represent anti-semetic currents in Catholicism and should not be reinstated as Bishops. So what do you guys think?

Do the views these Bishops hold stay separate from the Catholic church as they are personally held views?
Or is the Catholic church responsible for the views held by their clergy?

(note this thread is not an invitation for anti-religion trolls so if you don't have a legitimate view other than lawl religion don't post)

 

[Graustein]

Someone's personal views or behaviour shouldn't be relevant to one's religion, unless those views or behaviour are sinful in the eyes of that religion.
What I mean is, as far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Catholic faith that bans Holocaust denial. It's stupid, false, disrespectful and highly antisemitic, but I don't see how it violates Catholic tenets (Being not a Catholic, I can't speak with 100% certainty). So, I don't really think it should be grounds for excommunication. Which is not to say I condone it in the slightest, I just think that they should be kept seperate.

Let's use an example. Religion A says nothing against prostitution or the solicitation thereof. A priest who is caught using the services of a prostitute gets defrocked for his scandelous behaviour. Now, any authority figure being caught utilising the services of a lady of the night would have a huge PR problem, and it's obvious that it's a PR thing. However, I don't think said priest, deviant though he may have been, should be defrocked.

So, even though I disagree most vehemently with his views and think he should in some way be silenced, I don't think excommunicating him for holding controversial views that aren't forbidden by the religion was the right thing to do in the first place.
Sounds a bit rambly, but it does make sense to me.

 

[Zac_Dai]

Holocaust, Jews, and the Catholic church.

This thread is going places.

Anyway from an outside perspective, the clergy represent the church thus any views they have reflect on the church. Same with politicians and political parties.

So I don't think it will do the Catholic church any good by supporting holocaust deniers.

 

[MercurySteam]

I'm not Catholic. I am however Jewish, and if anoyone claims that holocaust didn't happen then they need to be sent back to school. How could you say that at least 6 million Jews disappeared off the globe for no apparent reason.

 

[Cousin_IT]

As I understand it this is all part of the current Popes attempt to heal a pretty major rift between Progressive & Conservative catholics that has existed since the mid 1960s (the 2nd Vatican Council). The bishops involved are on the very conservative side of the Catholic church (a group which the current Pope has sympathies for) & were excommunicated not because of their views but because they were consecrated as bishops without Papal consent. The Papacy atm is working to "get its house in order" as I think it was put in a BBC report I read. Frankly, given the choice between bringing them back into the Church & risking a schism/duel church; I think the Pope is right to un-excommunicate them.

Also, as far as I know its only the British bishop who has outwardly expressed Holocaust denial. Theres more to this decision than the views (or potential views) of the individuals involved.

 

[Graustein]

-snip-

You're making it sound like religions don't have PR, but I personally think religions are PR, and this issue is a PR problem.

I'm aware of that. I'm basically saying that if a clergyman does something that is reprehensible but unrelated to his religious duties, I don't think he should be punished by his religious institution, because it's really none of their business.

 

[mattttherman3]

Well those bishops are morons, it did happen, it is a fact, I have seen survivors and heard their stories.

 

[Baby Tea]

Anyway from an outside perspective, the clergy represent the church thus any views they have reflect on the church. Same with politicians and political parties.

So I don't think it will do the Catholic church any good by supporting holocaust deniers.

From a quasi-inside perspective(Protestant, not Catholic), I completely agree.

This Bishops are representing the Catholic Church, wherever they are. While it may not be against Catholic tenants, per se, to deny the holocaust, as an active representative of the Catholic Church: It's a good idea not to do anything that makes the Church look bad...including denying the holocaust like some uneducated klan member.

 

[Fightgarr]

One time me and my brother were on Skype and the connection cut out. I guess you could say we were...ex-communicators.

...Sorry.

 

[Graustein]

-snip-

You're making it sound like religions don't have PR, but I personally think religions are PR, and this issue is a PR problem.

I'm aware of that. I'm basically saying that if a clergyman does something that is reprehensible but unrelated to his religious duties, I don't think he should be punished by his religious institution, because it's really none of their business.

I don't think it's any of the publics business if a politician sees a prostitute either >_>;
Although I guess we're paying the Government taxes... Do they use any of that money on churches or anything? Gotta look that up.

I agree. What a politician does in his spare time should not be up for scrutiny any more than the average citizen.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Wonder if I could get myself un-excommunicated? (best term i could come up with, sorry)

 

[Ezekel]

Churches have the right to excommunicate or get rid of any clergy that they like. The pastor or bishop or whatever, is to be held to the highest standard of moral views.

 

[Playbahnosh]

I think clergymen are responsible for their own views, ideals and ideas, because of what they represent. They represent a system, a religion, a church. So if people belonging to that religion get offended by what the clergyman does or think, he should be held responsible for that by any means. Yes, it's a PR thing. Hell, this whole religion nonsense is a PR thing. They sell consolation in the form of cheap promises and vague fairytales. But it doesn't matter what I think about religion, if they work as a system, they should treat the members according to social standards in their own right. They shouldn't be above the people, but for them.

 

[xitel]

Technically if the Pope says they are excommunicated or un-excommunicated, then that's that. It doesn't matter what we think, according to church dogma the Pope is the conduit to God, and his word is final in all church matters. Whether or not we agree with it doesn't really matter. I will say that if they still teach the word of the Lord as laid out in the Bible, then their political views shouldn't really matter outside of Church duties. That would in a way be similar to excommunicating a priest for supporting a tax increase.

 

[Galletea]

Generally speaking a person's views should not interfere with their work but this is a different case. We're talking about an organisation that millions of people look to for direction on how to lead their lives. Bishops and priests have a responsibility to set an example and conflicting messages about things like this are damaging to the relationship between religion and populous.