Poll: Fake Geek Girl Meme

[Hollyday]

Yes, yes, another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender! Turn away now for the sake of your own sanity.

I read an article on The Mary Sue this morning which made me wonder...

http://www.themarysue.com/geek-girl-meme/#0

The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."

Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?

I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).

Spoiler: I'll leave you with this thought

EDIT: 2nd option should read 'No, but only because men don't enter geek culture just to get attention like some women do'

 

[Lieju]

That kind of thing happens all the time.

Very notably against so called 'casual gamers', although often this is tied to the idea of female gamers not being hardcore or whatever, and casual games being girl-stuff. I've been called 'not a proper gamer' for not playing military shooters.

It's just that when it happens to men it doesn't happen because they are men, it has nothing to do with their gender.
Some inner circles can be very hostile, on both genders, but I can't think of a 'geeky' circles where you'd be looked down upon for being a guy.
(Unless Yuri manga/anime counts?)

 

[El Danny]

Basically, there are people who find the Big Bang Theory funny.

Then there's the rest of us.

Bottom line, Geek and Nerdy is currently a fad, it'll pass.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Yes, yes, another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender! Turn away now for the sake of your own sanity.

*wriggles hands and grins evily* Bring 'em on. I love 'em!

The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."

Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?

I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).

In short, no. Because the normative nerd is a man (or rather a boy/man-child), and female nerds are a deviation from the norm. The stereotype exists simply because it isn't considered normative.

I am also of the opinion that nerd culture as a whole has deep-rooted woman issues, but I am not about to get into that now.

(Unless Yuri manga/anime counts?)

Yuri manga is made for straight men. The equivalent for heterosexual women is yaoi.

EDIT: I have been corrected on the yuri part at page 3.

EDIT 2: When I say "the normative nerd is a man" I mean "society would have us believe the normative nerd is a man." The same goes for my statement about female nerds; society would have us believe female nerds are a deviation from the norm. Society is wrong on this, I might add.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Yes, yes, another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender! Turn away now for the sake of your own sanity.

Please, make it stop!

I read an article on The Mary Sue this morning which made me wonder...

http://www.themarysue.com/geek-girl-meme/#0

The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."

Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?

I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).

Spoiler: I'll leave you with this thought

EDIT: 2nd option should read 'No, but only because men don't enter geek culture just to get attention like some women do'

I think that guys get it as well if you claim to be a fan of specific geeky things that have a large hardcore fan base. I imagine that Star Wars fans act this way when somebody claims to also be a "serious" fan of Star Wars.

If it makes you feel any better, I like fashion and I get similar treatment because I'm a guy and even once its "accepted" that I like fashion, I'm accused of being gay-which is crap, I'm straight.

People in general are just territorial for what they like. *shrug*

 

[Vault101]

hmmmm,.....I think so but [b/]nowehere near[/b] as much for females

I mean if your a female the second your there your under "scrutiny"...even without opening your mouth

though to be fair Ive never experienced this phenomenon in real life...

 

[Hoplon]

It happens to both, Girls more because there is a perceived rareness to them that the socially introverted male geek's scepticism and inherent elitism, plus probably not small amount of rejection humiliation anxiety, comes in.

They get a chance to do the rejecting for once and hell now seems like a good time.

It's not healthy, it's not honest and it generally takes a long time to figure out it's also pointless since it never really makes you feel any better.

Or they're a basement dweller and will never figure that out.

 

[Doclector]

I've never been judged on nerdiness, probably because it's of little to no doubt that I'm a massive nerd within five minutes of talking to me. EDIT: Actually, I have been judged for not playing PC much, but outside of that, nothing.

I'm a guy, and I must admit, I find myself doing this more than I should. I'd rarely tell someone they're not a nerd, or that they're attention seeking, but I suspect it all the time.

It still seems unlikely to me on a certain level. All logic states that it isn't, but There was a time when a gamer girl was that rare, and I grew up in that time. Not only that, but we didn't have the internet, so you'd have to meet said girls in real life to know they exist, which like I said, was ridiculously unlikely, especially for someone as socially awkward as I was growing up.

It's such an ingrained idea that it resists removal, despite all logic telling me that it's bullshit from a time long past. Hell, due to my unpopular state in school, and my self imposed exile from normal society for a few years after, I don't even know when the point was that the "boys only" status of gaming eased off enough that gamer girls felt more able to join in. I just came out of my goddamn cave one day to find the fairer sex all over the hobby.

Which is fine. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for everyone being able to join in with our hobby no matter their sex, race, etc. This idea is simply ingrained into my mind so much that I meet gamer girls outside of actual online gaming with a bit of suspicion.

None of it's helped by the fact that I generally feel a little suspicious when a girl even bothers talking to me outside of a social group, on a personal level. I always think "Of all the guys around, why the fuck would you be interested in me?" Emo, low self esteem, yadiyadiyada, it's all those things, but it's true.

So, I'm sorry. I'm so terribly sorry, but as much mind bleach as I attempt to apply to this rotten idea stuck to the walls of my mind, it's gonna take a while to shift, and if nothing else, my confession might at least give you some idea why this stance still exists.

 

[VanQ]

Basically, there are people who find the Big Bang Theory funny.

Then there's the rest of us.

Bottom line, Geek and Nerdy is currently a fad, it'll pass.

Wow, you... have just described my feelings on this topic in three short sentences. I haven't been able to get this out in words so well in all these years.

Do you mind if I use this quote in the future?

 

[EeveeElectro]

I can tell straight away when someone is a 'poser.'
Usually the ones who scream and shout about their gender, bringing it into every point where it's not relevant and labelling themselves as nerdy. I think as soon as someone labels themselves as something, I instantly dismiss them as that.
Also when girls pose with game controllers it just makes me cringe. Doesn't necessarily mean they're not legit, but it seems they're only gamers partly for the attention.
If you say "I'm SUCH a nerd!" (or replace nerd with emo/scene kid/metal head/Jock whatever) then you're giving yourself loads to live up to.

I think on my Twitter bio or something I put that I'm "slightly nerdy" because there's no denying I am at least a little bit, but there's a lot of nerd/geek culture I'm not into.

 

[Lieju]

(Unless Yuri manga/anime counts?)

Yuri manga is made for straight men. The equivalent for heterosexual women is yaoi.

Well, lesbians like it too. And there are some forums or groups where men can be shunned, because some lesbians (or bi-women, I guess), don't like the idea of men enjoying yuri.
(But I guess mainly lesbian-populated groups are a rather niche of a niche?)

Most of yaoi-fans seem to be women/girls, but I don't think male fans receive hostility, usually anyway.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

I don't mind female nerds at all. The more the merrier, they say. The problem is that the girl in the image honestly looks like the type who says that she's a nerd to appear stylish, but will jump ship when the next trend comes along at a moments notice. I'm not saying that this is an exclusively female thing; a lot of guys do it as well.

 

[Quoth]

Long story short, if you stop trying to have yourself defined by a label, then you're less likely to be bothered when someone calls you out on something you're not aspiring to be. If you pay any attention to the insults hurled at you by some random on the internet via a forum, game chat panel or whatever then you haven't learned the art of not giving a damn.

To write an article about it, or worse create a meme out of it is just trolling the trolls. The whole thing isn't worth the bytes.

You know what, I want the time it took to read back. Time theft should be a real crime, then the world would probably find there was a lot less drivel in it.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

(Unless Yuri manga/anime counts?)

Yuri manga is made for straight men. The equivalent for heterosexual women is yaoi.

Well, lesbians like it too. And there are some forums or groups where men can be shunned, because some lesbians (or bi-women, I guess), don't like the idea of men enjoying yuri.
(But I guess mainly lesbian-populated groups are a rather niche of a niche?)

Most of yaoi-fans seem to be women/girls, but I don't think male fans receive hostility, usually anyway.

I admit, I have never seen a lesbian proclaim a fondness for yuri. But since that is only anecdotal and I myself don't enjoy yuri, I am most likely just ignorant of the people liking it.

In any case, lesbian groups are probably a niche of a niche as you suggest, what with homosexuals still being marginalized at large in society.

Per the point about yaoi, it should be noted that there is a gay equivalent called bara, with some differences in how the men/boys are designed, written, and so forth. There may be some overlap between these in the western audience though, for what I know.

 

[Hollyday]

I don't mind female nerds at all. The more the merrier, they say. The problem is that the girl in the image honestly looks like the type who says that she's a nerd to appear stylish, but will jump ship when the next trend comes along at a moments notice. I'm not saying that this is an exclusively female thing; a lot of guys do it as well.

It's funny that we (I say 'we' because I had the same initial reaction) respond to the picture of the girl by instantly judging that she's fake and doing it for attention. Why? Because she's pretty? The writing on her hand? The exaggerated glasses? What is it about her that somehow makes us think we can judge her in that way. And even if she's a fake, why do we care? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, surely?

Long story short, if you stop trying to have yourself defined by a label, then you're less likely to be bothered when someone calls you out on something you're not aspiring to be. If you pay any attention to the insults hurled at you by some random on the internet via a forum, game chat panel or whatever then you haven't learned the art of not giving a damn.

To write an article about it, or worse create a meme out of it is just trolling the trolls. The whole thing isn't worth the bytes.

Surely everyone has the right to call themselves what they like, we shouldn't have to change our behaviour so that we won't be offended by offensive people; so that we won't be judged by unpleasant, judgemental people? The idea of 'fake geek' is a broad one, but it extends to people judging other's right to be at a convention, playing a game, writing on a forum. I don't go round with 'I'm a big fat geek' tattooed on my forehead but that doesn't stop people judging that I'm not geek enough to do something. I wish I had a thicker skin so that it didn't bother me, but it does. And I shouldn't have to have a thicker skin. That's the point.

Spoiler: when in doubt, turn to Marvel characters for guidance...

Spoiler: Apologies for stealing more of your time :P

 

[DoPo]

Well, I've gotten something similar, a couple of times, actually, when it comes to music. Now - a preface, I am really fond of rock and metal, especially stuff from around the 80s. So here is what happened, it was pretty similar across all instances, so I'll boil it down.

Some friends are talking about the new album of some metal band I don't listen to, so I just don't join in the conversation. Then one of them decides to take a notice in me and jokes that I must be shocked they are talking about Apocalyptica or whatever. Both of them decide to start ridiculing me for "being in the presence of satanist" and really "extreme guys". You know, because that's what I must consider metal fans to be. I cut them short with the revelation that 80% of my music library is rock and metal, from Deep Purple to Slayer, Bloodbath, Vomitory. That is, from softer classic stuff to more hardcore bands. I then had to "prove" that I wasn't actually making this up.

So yeah, happens to guys as well. I haven't been a woman, so I don't know exactly how much do they get the "poser" treatment. But on some matters, males seem to be more implicitly trusting - I met some guys (two different occasions, somewhat recently, but again, pretty similar thing happened) and basically we didn't know each other really well. But after hearing that I was a gamer, they were at ease discussing all gaming related stuff with me, implicitly trusting me that I wasn't a poser. So, basically we went from "So, are you a gamer?" "Yes, I am" to straight up starting up discussions about titles, new and old, as well as gaming news on our next meeting.

 

[Schadrach]

I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).

If you want to understand it, it's like the "men who spend any time at all around children who are not clearly and apparently blood relatives are pedophiles" thing -- it is in fact true for a tiny, tiny minority of the demographic in question, but that tiny minority is seen as noteworthy and gets wildly overestimated until they get treated as representative of the population. In other words, women get called on the whole "fake geek girl" thing for the same reason http://thegrio.com/2012/02/15/texas-grandfather-handcuffed-for-babysitting-while-white/ happens.

 

[renegade7]

"Like, OH MY GAAAWWWD, I played CoD at my boyfriend's house, I am, like, SUCH a geek"

gets really old really quickly.

Women and men both lie about themselves in dating situations. Women may wear push-up bras to look like their breasts are more shapely, or make up to look like they have better skin. Men go to the gym and get a tan to make themselves look like...I don't know, like they just plowed the fields or something. Guess some girl somewhere is into that.

Anyway. "Geekiness" is often associated with intelligence...and more and more people are finding intelligence attractive. I think the idea is that by pretending to be a geek, you try to send a message of intelligence. Both genders find ways to do this, I think in women it's a little more popular because there are no male 'sexy nerds' in the movies or on TV.

Just one take on it.

 

[GrimTuesday]

I don't know, the "nerd subculture" has issues with women, the only people who deny that are delusional, but there is definitely some grievance to be had in this area, to a certain extent. Ever since the whole "nerds are cool" thing came into fashion there has been an influx of people who aren't in anyway nerdy saying they are. This is particularly frustrating for those who have been "nerds" or "geeks" all their lives who remember the shit they had to put up with when that label carried a particular negative connotation. Now suddenly those people (or people like them) are taking that label and taking it for themselves, and that is threatening to many "nerds/geeks", not to mention those people who are saying they are nerds or geeks are really just doing mundane stuff (I'm sorry, but playing CoD doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, in fact, playing only/primarily shooters on consul is what casuals do). Of course, the part of this that is an illegitimate grievance is how those within the geek/nerd subculture become insular and lash out at the wrong people, namely female gamers. That said female gamers do seem to have a habit of announcing that they are female, as if that somehow makes them a special snowflake, and there are morons who encourage that behavior by worshiping them.

I've never really bothered with the whole fake nerd thing myself, I never quizzed anyone, male or female, on their nerd credentials outside of certain circumstances, normally I can tell pretty quickly. I have seen people do it when someone makes a specific claim (I like to quiz people on Star Wars trivia) about knowing shit, but I see that as being somewhat different.

For those who insist that we have no reason to be angry about people (casuals) horning in on our subculture, just think if a bunch of people started using the in-jokes that you and your friends have, I bet that would piss you off, I know it pisses me off.