Poll: fallout 4's analysis/ problem with a voiced protagonist

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CrustyOatmeal

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Jul 4, 2010
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this is the way i see it:

you cant have a voiced protagonist without A) having no option in what your saying (your basically following a character and not choosing what he/she does, except when outside of dialogue/ story) or B) you have to do what they are currently doing (the mass effect system whereby they abbreviate the dialogue choices). the reason why you cant have a voiced protagonist AND full text is that if you had a voiced protagonist and you had access to everything they could say then you would basically read the text and then have the character say it and that would annoy players, having to read something and then have it read back to them essentially. so if they go the voiced protagonist route, which i am not in agreement of, then you can only really do what it is that bethesda is doing

my 2nd point, and probably my main gripe of the system, is that by implementing voiced protagonists you cannot have story based mods unless you utilize previous dialogue. with these short summaries being the only option, a modder that create a series of quests or some other scenario where the character must verbally interact with other NPC's will only be allowed to input preexisting dialogue from the protagonist OR have their dialogue options be as short as the summary based dialogue system limits the characters for each input. this dialogue system severely, if not completely, cripples any mods that have verbal player interactions

i believe the best solution for Bethesda would be to have a dual dialogue system where one can either choose the mass effect style OR the traditional fallout 3/ new vegas system with walls of text. i cant see any harm in implementing such an option and i imagine the greatest difficulty with its implementation will be typing out all of the text required for the traditional method (although, i imagine digital scripts exists somewhere and its simply a matter of copy/ paste). i think this option would also be beneficial for the "soft-core" audience/ shooter crowd by providing a less stringent and text heavy game for those that simply want to a faster pace and not read so heavily but it also allows the hardcore RPG lovers to go all out in their role playing experience.

IMHO, the dialogue system is going to be the crux of the majority of complaints if it is implemented as it was presented at E3 and i hope bethesda listsns to its fans and realizes the drawbacks of voiced protagonists, and how that works against the desires of their traditional audence, and works on finding a way to appease the role players

but what are your thought on the dialogue system? what are your problems/ compliments for it? do you see any other way bethesda can fix it or is it fine as is? do you see any way the modding community can circumvent this without remaking the old dialogue system and making it a prerequisite for mods with dialogue?
 

Shiftygiant

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Apr 12, 2011
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If Bethesda think it's fine, then it's probably not to bad. We have very little in the way of knowledge outside the E3 Demo, so until more appears, there's not much to judge. And Bethesda aren't just going to shift from no dialogue text based to dialogue without reason.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Oct 1, 2009
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Personally I thought both the voice actors for the protagonist seemed pretty good, they both nailed that saccharine 50's-feel in their delivery without getting too hammy, it bodes well. But then I am not bothered with a voiced protagonist and can clearly see the benefits of having one, in that it allows for more reactive and engaging conversations and actually infuses the PC with some actual presence in the game world instead of the PC just being a body that kind of floats around and never really engages with anyone.

In the end, I am indifferent to whatever the protagonist is mute or voiced. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and both give the game a different slant. Mute PCs are great for sandbox games where going off the beaten path is more important than the story, while voiced PCs are much better for delivering a focused story and giving the PC a proper place in that story.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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Jan 27, 2011
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The terrible writing of Bethesda dooms it either way, so it is kind of a moot point no matter which system they use.
 

Kingjackl

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Nov 18, 2009
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Voiced protagonists are the way RPGs are going, and games like the Witcher and Mass Effect have shown us that you can do it without sacrificing too much depth. I personally find voiced protagonists more immersive in a dialogue-heavy game, so it's no skin off my nose. Besides, it's going to be a 100-hour Bethesda game - we'll get used to it.
 

Denamic

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Aug 19, 2009
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Another case of "judge that thing we haven't experienced yet." Do people not remember how horrible Fallout 3 was going to be? The Oblivion with guns thing? Yeah, let's wait until we get something concrete until we start discussing 'problems' we haven't even experienced yet.
 

Denamic

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Marxie said:
Denamic said:
Do people not remember how horrible Fallout 3 was going to be? The Oblivion with guns thing?
But it did turn out to be a poorly written Oblivion with guns. /v/ was right.
If you say so.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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I'm mostly againsst voiceovers in games, because it has sorely restricted them. But I judge games as they come, and I will do that with Fallout 4.

Also, mods? That's one of the big points here? You can't have voiced mods? That seems like scraping the bottom of the barrel.
 

KenAri

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Jan 13, 2013
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Doesn't seem too different from when people were mad over Bioware moving from silent to voiced. But when people were shown two different versions of the same conversation- one voiced and one silent- the voiced version was almost unanimously preferred.

It'll be fine as long as the voice actors aren't garbage and that there's a skip button.
 

DrownedAmmet

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Apr 13, 2015
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I guess I'm a phony Fallout fan because I loved Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but never played the older ones because I'm not a fan of turn based games.

I don't see why they can't find a middle ground, keep most of the options open while keeping a voiced protagonist. All of the replies were voiced, anyway, so I don't think it would be too much work to voice 2 sets of the prompts
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Marxie said:
Fine, Bethesda can invest into it and reap profits, but Fallout is not theirs.
Uh, yeah, it really, really is.

It belongs to them just as much as your toothbrush belongs to you.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Marxie said:
Zhukov said:
It belongs to them just as much as your toothbrush belongs to you.
You're putting a "=" sign between a digital work of art and an expendable physical commodity. That's just sad.
Not quite. I am pointing out out that they are both equally subject to ownership.

No amount of fervent denial or vague "art transcends money" preaching will change that.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Marxie said:
Zhukov said:
Not quite. I am pointing out out that they are both equally subject to ownership.
Ownership is a thing that exists by being acknowledged. Me and millions of people around the world have the means of denying Bethesda that acknowledgement without hurting anyone. Yo ho ho, and a list of seeds.
If you're implying what I think you are then that's some pretty severe hypocrisy you got going on there.

"I'm a True Fan! I own this series as much as the people who actually own it! Even though I just leech off the people who make it and the people who pay for it."
 

Mik Sunrider

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Dec 21, 2013
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Every time I see 'fully voice', I can't help wondering if the time and money spent on getting my toon a voice couldn't be spent doing something more, oh I don't know, slightly more productive. Such as spending more money in Quality Assurance to make sure the game works before release. But hey, that is just me.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
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I'll have to see what Bethesda's result is. Skyrim was done wonderfully so I don't expect them to take any steps backwards with Fallout 4. They usually combine both text and voice (the person talking with the script of what they're saying in a dialogue box like old times) so I don't know what the problem is.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

The Ship Magnificent
Dec 30, 2011
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I don't like being the naysayer anymore, so I'll say that I'm curious how it would turn out. Mass Effect did an okay job of handling it. Bethesda had every dialogue option laid out in script with one side of the conversation spoken anyways, so the next logical step is to speak the other side of the conversation.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Marxie said:
Zhukov said:
"I'm a True Fan! I own this series as much as the people who actually own it! Even though I just leech off the people who make it and the people who pay for it.
I paid for my copies of Fallout and Fallout 2 back in the day to give my support to people who actually give a crap about their creation.
Justify harder.

And now - I do wonder what is it that one leeches off the poor ZeniMax. As in - what are they losing in the process, except one's acknowledgement of their ownership?
The only reason there is anything for you to pirate is because other people pay for it.

Although if you're that disdainful of their products I don't see why you would bother at all. It makes no difference to them. A non-purchase and a pirated copy come to the same thing on a ZeniMax balance sheet.
 

kazann

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Jan 18, 2013
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EVERY rpg should just do what deux ex HR did, WHY is that not the industry norm? it solves BOTH issues, those who like to read can do so, and those who would rather not read then hear the text can do so.
 

Lil_Rimmy

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Mar 19, 2011
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Marxie said:
Zhukov said:
Not quite. I am pointing out out that they are both equally subject to ownership.
Ownership is a thing that exists by being acknowledged. Me and millions of people around the world have the means of denying Bethesda that acknowledgement without hurting anyone. Yo ho ho, and a list of seeds.
You know, ignoring all of the other bloody nutso statements you've been throwing out like a No Mutants Allowed machine gun of quotes, this is one that I can not even begin to wrap my head around. You think that by saying to someone "Nah Uh! You don't own that!" means they don't own that?

I mean, I guess in your head that's true, but then what you have literally just said is that "I like to pretend and lie to myself that the people who own something, don't actually own it! Nope! I do!" You are pulling the equivalent of the placebo effect. That water memory really sure is doing you good, eh?

OT:
Really, the modding issue is going to be a non-issue. There will be subtitles unless everyone's brains fell out, so modders will just use those as they have always done. If it is really as awful and completely incompatible for modders as people may want think, I'll give it a week, and that's generous, before a brand new alternative chat menu is published by modders.

Meanwhile, it'll hopefully help out with bringing some actual life and interest to conversations. I like the stories of fallout and new vegas, and I like their worlds, but it has always been the characters that just sort of kill it for me. Even in Skyrim with their new system, no character ever really stands out as memorable and most of your interaction with characters involve you sprinting at them, stabling on their table squishing their cheese while going down their dialogue menu and then never speaking to them again.

I think the Witcher 3 really showed how good writing, the world and the people in it can be. Even though some of the people you talk to are just random peasant version 341, CDPR do a great job of making memorable characters and the dialogue in that game is great. I know Fallout and the Elder Scrolls will probably never reach that level of awesome for many, many games, but any step closer to having actual involved conversations with people that result in developed, interesting characters is a plus.
 

Denamic

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Aug 19, 2009
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Marxie said:
Denamic said:
If you say so.
There are only two ways of denying the obvious - not having played Fallout 3 and not having played Oblivion. Which one would you be?
One who disagree with you on multiple counts.