Poll: Fallout 76 vs Anthem; which game fell out more?

FakeSympathy

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Here we go; the two games in recent gaming history which are said to be the most disliked games of all time.

We have Fallout 76, which started with a bunch of glitches and bugs. Each update seemed like one step forward and two steps back, added with the ridiculous microtransaction store. AND the infamous duffle bag controversy, where at first they said "canvas is a rare material, so we send you this crappy nylon bag instead", then they said "Sorry about the whole thing m8. Here's 500 in-game currency which ironically can't buy the duffle bag in-game", and then they said, "Okay, fine give us your info and we'll send replacement- Oops, all your info has been leaked". There was also the Nuka Dark Rum issue, but that was more of problem from the brewer rather than Bethesda

And then we have Anthem, which apparently had troubling development to begin with. The game had somewhat of an okay launch with decent mech-suit gameplay, but the endgame content is a joke, the entire future roadmap is on ice, and the communication from devs been absolute garbage. The player base has disappeared seamlessly overnight, and now you can't even matchmake because of how little the number of players is.
 

Hawki

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I've played neither, but from what I've seen, I'd nominate Fallout.

The reaction to Anthem was more along the lines of "well, that's disappointing, guess that's another piece of dirt on BioWare's grave." On the other, the reaction to Fallout 76 was along the lines of outright hatred. It reminded me of when Diablo III was released and the fanbase made no shortage of showing just how much they hated both the game and the people who worked on it.
 

Dalisclock

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From what I understand, having played niether but following the news on both, is that Fallout 76 was borderline broken at launch and even now still isn't anywhere close to hitting it's potential. And then here's the numerous self inflicted gunshot wounds Bethesda inflicted upon themselves over the past 6 months or so.

Anthem was just really mediocre, for the most part, though being a bioware game that's pretty damning in itself.
 

Samos205

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Anthem. As bad as 76 is, atleast it worked and its still getting consistent content and updates. Sure the content might not be great, but atleast they're trying. Whereas anthem is dead. I'd say dying, but its long since died.
 

Bedinsis

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Having played neither, I'd go with Fallout 76, since it was a part of an IP that is much beloved and has reviewed well in the past.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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FO76, easily. The game started on thin ice with gamers due to the whole "no NPC" and "multiplayer" thing, not to mention continuing to duct tape netcode to a decade-old engine of "well, good enough for government work" robustness that was never intended for multi-player to begin with. But, most gamers despite their reservations gave Bethesda the benefit of the doubt, albeit highly qualified and apprehensively.

Then Bethesda turned its late development, release, and post-release support into what you'd expect from an Armando Iannucci film...about Fyre Fest. But, at the end of the day, despite having catastrophically failed at every turn, at least Bethesda tried to do right.

Anthem arguably turned out better than (those paying attention and not deluding themselves) expected. BW fell from grace years ago; SWToR's development and launch proved how competent BW wasn't at these sorts of games; ME:A proved EA's business strategy with BW was to hype, snatch, run, and blame the consumer as a distraction. Definitely a "dead dove do not eat" scenario.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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i personally dislike what anthem stands for more. but then again, at least it has NPCs and some sort of shitty claim to a narrative and a functional, almost fun gameplay. on the other other hand, fallout lacks the inherent ability to cause its developer's imminent culling
 

Aerosteam

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If we were to not count separate products like the duffle bag, rum, and leather jacket, it would certainly cut down the list of fuck ups Fallout 76 had a fair bit. Personally I like to compare the games themselves, their launches, and marketing. Imma go down a list of things I can think of...

-F76 had a day one patch larger than the base game
-Anthem had an unnecessarily confusing release schedule

-F76 reuses a ton of assets from Fallout 4
-Anthem lacks content overall

-F76 looks awful for 2018
-Anthem has much higher production value but took 7 years to make

-F76 players getting banned when it's not their fault
-Anthem players being left in the dark for content updates

-F76 objectively is a worse game
-Anthem is far more mediocre

-F76's microtransactions are worse
-Anthem's base price is higher

-F76 completely misses the point of what makes Fallout, Fallout
-Anthem is the perfect representation of the why the current AAA trends suck

-Both are filled with glitches and may corrupt your device's hard drive
-Both have asinine game design decisions
-Both stories are lacklustre
-Both finales and endgames suck
-Both had deceptive marketing

It's close, but I'm giving the bigger fuck up to Anthem. The fundamental problems it has with game design just pushes it further. BioWare being a more veteran studio, having all the time in the world and higher budget to make it good, and they still make some of the most baffling, deliberate decisions I've seen in a game. Completely screwing up how loot works in a looter shooter, having the starting/no equipment effectively the best in the game thus making every single loot drop utterly pointless is so bad it's fascinating.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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Aerosteam said:
Imma go down a list of things I can think of...
Anthem didn't brick shit, it just corrupted the hard drive database and the fix is to hard reboot in safe mode and rebuild. That's about as routine a maintenance process as routine gets, and it's recommended to periodically rebuild the database to optimize performance. People who ***** about Anthem "bricking" consoles don't know what "bricking" is.

Fallout 76, on the other hand, wreaked so much havoc on consoles (and PC's) the only fix was factory resetting the platform.

Anthem physical copies at least came with a game disc. Not a huge issue for an exclusively online game, but on the other hand the expectation is if you pay full MSRP for a physical copy, it comes with a medium that has the game data on it that can be installed offline. Speaking of...

FO76's day one patch was somehow larger than the full install itself.
 

immortalfrieza

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Fallout 76 without even a challenge. Whether you liked it's games or not Bioware had been dead as anything but a name long before Anthem was even a thought in the brain of anyone in Bioware, the respect the gaming community had for it in particular.

Bethesda, despite some questionable decisions before it (hello, the thing that will never work called paid mods) had a rabidly loyal fanbase and an impressive record of excellent games, especially their open world games. Everything about Fallout 76 pretty much destroyed all that in the space of less than 5 minutes. From multiplayer that hardly any of their fans wanted (if any), to the lack of NPCs in the game, to the condescending announcements and PR, to the shitshow of fails with the Bethesda site, the special editions... I could go on and on, but the point is that everything that Bethesda could possibly do wrong they DID wrong. Hell, despite the fact that fans didn't want it the idea of a multiplayer Fallout game still could have worked more or less, but Bethesda decided to release a terrible broken game instead, one that still is having issues and a clusterf*** of terrible decisions.

Bioware had fallen straight into the ground and dug it's own grave a long time ago, Bethesda was in orbit and fell so hard and so fast they went straight through the Earth and kept going. Even if they absolutely knock it out of the park with every game they have going forward nobody with any sense will ever trust Bethesda again for likely at least a couple decades.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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immortalfrieza said:
...From multiplayer that hardly any of their fans wanted (if any), to the lack of NPCs in the game, to the condescending announcements and PR, to the shitshow of fails with the Bethesda site, the special editions...
Honestly, gamers who get up in arms over the very concept of Fallout having multi-player need to get over themselves. A multiplayer Fallout game could be fantastic, if done right. Sadly it wasn't, as Bethesda wanted their piece of the "semi-persistent online survival/base-builder" action, and was willing to move heaven and earth to get it, even if that meant releasing a buggy dumpster fire of a game that sacrificed everything that made the Fallout series great in the first place. Worse, was that FO76 had all the right pieces in the right places to be a truly great Fallout game, but they failed on every conceivable level to deliver, tore the lore to shreds, and probably sank the IP for the next decade in the course.

I mean, imagine this, instead of what FO76 turned out to be...

The game has a story with NPC's, and much more robust crafting mechanics and an entirely player-driven economy as opposed to looter-shooter bullshit. Like, pre-NGE SWG, Ultima Online, EVE Online levels of player-driven; players have to specialize, and they can't even do much more than stabilize themselves back up to 20% health, or even clear rads, without a Medicine-specialized PC or NPC around. Only the most basic of sustenance and scavenged food isn't crafted, let alone decent weapons or armor. To get anywhere or do anything, players have to work together, period, the end.

So, the story. About 9-12 hours long, designed as a protracted tutorial and to introduce the game world. Players emerge from the Vault, with an initial mandate to gather and start building at a nearby, randomized, pre-selected location, with your typical "how to gather, build, eat and drink, find weapons, etc." introductory quests that take 30-45 minutes to complete. The culmination of the intro quest is a trip into a nearby ruin, to repair, activate, and attenuate a repeater station, which enables global voice chat for that character and allows them to listen to the radio stations, etc.

You do that, and...oh, wait. There's a radio station active that's not coming from the Vault or other players! Somebody survived the holocaust...better check that out. But, it's up to the player to triangulate the location of the signal, based on signal strength. Eventually the player makes their way down to the mines, where they find a ghoul settlement. The player learns more of what's happened since the bombs fell, who ghouls are and what they're doing (they're survivors from the war, gathered for safety, and are trying to make a home for themselves), help out maybe, and eventually learn there are two major groups of raiders in the area in addition to the little pockets of raider-ness around.

One group is a pretty straightforward coalition of raider gangs, and they're a full fledged faction too with whom you can trade, do missions, etc. Typical raider stuff, go forth and be an asshole. Drugs, slaves, rock and roll, automatic weapons, all the good things in life.

The other group...well, the ghouls were "misinformed". It turns out this is a pretty sad group, they're refugees who moved into the region because it's one of the only places around that can support life. They lack resources, the older members of the group are dying off to various radiation-related diseases, and the post-war kids and young adults were never formally educated, but have learned the hard way how to survive in the wasteland. In other words, they're proto-tribals; they haven't completely regressed to pre-modernism, but without help, in a generation or two that's where they'll be.

That introduces three factions to the wasteland. Everybody hates the raiders, and the raiders want to kill, assimilate, or enslave everyone else. The tribals think the ghouls are all feral, and want a safe place to live. The ghouls think the tribals are assholes who want all the scant resources of the region for themselves. That's the game setting initially, and it's up to the player to decide for themselves with whom to side, and how they think conflicts should be settled.

Except the monkey wrench in the gears is, you're in a server with a bunch of other people, they may not agree with you, and quests from one faction can and will come into conflict with quests from other factions. Including "live" events and dynamic quests. Except, these quests and events don't necessarily involve PvP: players can negotiate and compromise, and return to their respective quest-givers and select dialogue options that reflect peaceful resolutions...that is, if they aren't screwed over, at which point PvP on.

So, let's say for instance, a live event pops where the Nuka-Cola plant gets overrun with mirelurks. Go figure. The ghouls decide they want the Nuka-Cola plant for themselves, figuring if they can get it running again they can score caps out of it trading fresh Nuka-Cola to caravans. The raiders, on the other hand, aren't interested in the Nuka-Cola itself but rather turning the place into a monster drug factory and shooting gallery. Players converge on the Nuka-Cola plant.

At this point they could clear out the mirelurks and have a nice big shoot-out to seize the plant for one faction or the other, and return for their payout. Or...they could negotiate and mutually decide on a peaceful resolution. Say for example, the ghouls get the plant but make drugs on the side for the raiders, who provide "security" in exchange for having to do none of the real work.

Now, this option has a nice payout and earns reputation for both factions, but not as much as seizing the plant for one faction. Which is important, since at this juncture the PC's can select a "double cross" dialogue option, and based on the number of "double cross" choices taken and the CHA/speech rating of the PC's, the faction can do that instead. If one or both factions decide to double cross, the shootout commences nevertheless.

Anyhow, this portion of the story continues, and the player reports back to the Vault 76 Overseer, who stayed behind to communicate and coordinate with other departed Vault-Dwellers, and eventually gets told to check out power fluctuations at the Greenbrier hotel. They go there, find the Greenbrier bunker, and when they enter the PC's Pip-Boy lights up like a goddamn Christmas tree. The facility opens up and comes to life, robots start coming out of hibernation, patriotic music starts playing and the stars and stripes are everywhere, and the player is...welcomed?

Because Vault 76 wasn't a control vault. It was an Enclave vault. Its purpose was to open twenty-five years after the bombs fell, and its dwellers were intended to be scouts to assess the habitability of the wasteland. You were working for the Enclave, gathering intel on the waste and its inhabitants, the whole time.

The Greenbrier was one of the Enclave's CoG bunkers, but it lost contact with the outside when the bombs fell. Without outside contact and orders, the Enclave fell back on a contingency plan of entering cryogenic stasis to await an all-clear from Vault 76. The Overseer's original intent was to send a dweller immediately after establishing a base camp (the tutorial), but upon learning there were other survivors decided to wait and gather information. Now that the Overseer has the information they need, they sent a dweller (you) to the Greenbrier to physically deliver the all-clear since radio contact was impossible.

The Enclave stationed at the Greenbrier come out of cryo, welcome you, review the Overseer's intelligence and brief you on their plan. The Enclave needs the region's coal as a fuel supply, and the Greenbrier's mandate was to seize it. Except, those pesky ghouls, raiders, and tribals need to be dealt with; the tribals can be exploited as a manual labor source, the raiders need to be eliminated, and the ghouls are filthy disgusting mutants to be eradicated. You're trained in how to use power armor and craft energy weapons by the Enclave, receive a fast travel option in the form of Vertibird pick-ups and drop-offs, and sent forth to conquer the wastes.

Oh, and here are the locations of a couple ICBM silos you can use to dispatch the raiders. Of course, whether the PC uses them that way is up to them; they could nuke the coal mines, which actually wouldn't hurt the ghouls but render them uninhabitable to anything not a ghoul, or turn the nukes on the Greenbrier. Maybe disable them so they can't be launched. Or just nuke random-ass landmarks for funsies. Either way the post-game is here, and the main body of it is dynamic quests and events to support your faction(s) of choice with, or against, other players at their leisure.
 

Dalisclock

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Eacaraxe said:
immortalfrieza said:
...From multiplayer that hardly any of their fans wanted (if any), to the lack of NPCs in the game, to the condescending announcements and PR, to the shitshow of fails with the Bethesda site, the special editions...
Honestly, gamers who get up in arms over the very concept of Fallout having multi-player need to get over themselves. A multiplayer Fallout game could be fantastic, if done right.
I honestly don't really care about multiplayer and the online only aspect of FO76 made it pretty much a non-starter as I was concerned but I also didn't wish for it to fail either. There have been 5 full SP fallout games put out so far so I'm not gonna pitch a fit when a MP based one drops.

That being said, I found it rather interesting how there's stil a dedicated group of people who are trying their damndest to enjoy the game even as flawed as it is, including these fine folk. https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/10/18537120/fallout-76-cannibals-eatt-guild-role-play-bethesda-perk

I guess I have some wierd admiration for people who are not only putting up with the incredible shortcomings but forming a weird community, even if it is based around hunting and eating people, because that's how they have fun in game.

And after having read more on the subject, I'm starting to lean heavily toward Anthem. FO76 faceplanted hard on launch but it seems its actually getting regular updates and fixes since then. Anthem's devs have apparently just gone dark and the promised roadmap is just hanging there in limbo . And then there's the playerbase for anthem is in a death spiral, at least say every article I've come across lately.