Poll: Favorite Warhammer 40k faction?

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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altnameJag said:
Samtemdo8 said:
But what is Matt Ward's greatest sins that deserves that term "Pre-Wardian" and is said with fondness?
Oh boy, I haven't been able to go on this rant in awhile:

I can't remember which edition it was, exactly, but Matt Ward was popular for writing codex years ago, mostly for crunch reasons. Unfortunately, he got to write fluff too. Examples:

First, he added a zero to just about every number in the Blood Angels fluff, which leads to your average Blood Angel being something like 700 years old and Dante, their leader, being only the third chapter master they ever had, the first two being the guy who founded the order and a dude who went crazy. Not bad for covering some 10,000 years of time. Then, Space Marines got access to revolutionary new tech that somehow was also 10,000 years old and was just, I dunno, not mentioned anywhere before hand ever. Then the story where the Blood Angels teamed up with Necrons, a.k.a. Lovecraftian Space Skynet, to beat up some Tyrannids. After the battle the two sides, mortal enemies by definition, just kinda parted ways. But it's okay, because contrary to all previous lore, Necrons went from being Lovecraftian Space Skynet to Space Tomb Kings from GW's Warhammer Fantasy line, so there's that.

But the real kicker, the epitome of shit writing, was the time the Grey Knights, most strong willed of all Space Marines, expert daemon hunters all, pulped some space nuns to cover themselves with their pure blood so they could sneak up on some blood-and-violence-powered daemons and shank them. See, said space nuns had been holding off said daemons while the daemons had this magic blood that made people who touch it go blasphemously berserk. A clever writer could've insinuated that the Grey Knights had been in contact with the magic blood and had unknowingly fallen under the sway of the blood daemons, showing that no matter who you are, nobody is incorruptible.

Matt Ward is not clever. So instead, surviving members of GW's single female faction comprising 99% of the female models in 40k; after holding their own against unimaginable horror; pure of spirit, body, and will; meekly submitted being turned into body paint. So that, bathed in the blood of the pure, the good guys could stab a daemon who loves when people spill the blood of the pure. And the good guys doing so was a noble sacrifice and a totally kosher thing to do.

It's stupid on every conceivable level.

And that's a small sample of some of the sins of Matt Ward.
But what about his apperant boner for the Ultramarines making them the big dog, the one above all Space Marines, the Chapter that spear headed the fight against Horus.

...And I agree that they should be portrayed like that because their name is the ULTRAMARINES!!!! They should live up to the Ultra name.

And they have the proper color pallette, Blue and Gold, the color of heroes.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Chaos, Chaos Space Marines to be precise. Coolest models, best fluff, one of the most versatile factions available. Too bad their codex has sucked donkey dick for the past 3 years, and the recent Traitor's Hate expansion did nothing to alleviate that. Currently they're the weakest faction in 40k by a massive margin.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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I gotta actually play the acutal Tabletop version of this game and not these pretender video game versions of it to comprehend game rules of the Tabletop. BUT WHY ARE THE FIGURINES SO DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!

$500 for a statue?!

How is Games Workshop not finanically fucked right now?
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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Samtemdo8 said:
I gotta actually play the acutal Tabletop version of this game and not these pretender video game versions of it to comprehend game rules of the Tabletop. BUT WHY ARE THE FIGURINES SO DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!

$500 for a statue?!

How is Games Workshop not finanically fucked right now?
Fanboys and no interest in keeping a hold of long term customers.

They want kids to buy in for exuberant amounts of their parents money and then get bored in time for the next lot of 13 year old boys to come along.

And some people will keep buying whatever GW make regardless. I will say, the new CEO is actually making a good effort at turning the brand around. Cheap army starter sets that actually work as armies, small one off board games and Kill Team was just released as a small scale version of 40k, attention to niche armies like Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults. Costs are still insane, don't get me wrong but they're making an effort.

I also think that 40k works better on a small scale with 10-12 models as you can really customise your army and make it personal. Check out the fan game Inquisimunda or like I said, Kill Team (about 6-7 models).

The blog Iron Sleet has some really nice conversions. One of the best things about GW games is the conversions which you can't really do in other games.
 

Bernzz

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Definitely Orks. In it for the fun of it, the way their latent psychic abilities manifest as "Red trukkz go fasta" and all that. They're so wonderfully ridiculous.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Here Comes Tomorrow said:
Samtemdo8 said:
I gotta actually play the acutal Tabletop version of this game and not these pretender video game versions of it to comprehend game rules of the Tabletop. BUT WHY ARE THE FIGURINES SO DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!

$500 for a statue?!

How is Games Workshop not finanically fucked right now?
Fanboys and no interest in keeping a hold of long term customers.

They want kids to buy in for exuberant amounts of their parents money and then get bored in time for the next lot of 13 year old boys to come along.

And some people will keep buying whatever GW make regardless. I will say, the new CEO is actually making a good effort at turning the brand around. Cheap army starter sets that actually work as armies, small one off board games and Kill Team was just released as a small scale version of 40k, attention to niche armies like Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults. Costs are still insane, don't get me wrong but they're making an effort.
This. So much this. GW has no interest in keeping their old customers.

Hell, the manager at my local GW often says he'd be totally happy if people just bought models and paints and left, never playing any games or chatting. He and I even got into an argument once over Age of Sigmar where he said he was happy the massive rules change alienated the entirety of the Fantasy fandom, because they all already have full armies and never bought anything. So AoS allowed for new players to buy new models, and the old players stormed away to play old school Fantasy at their houses.
I told him he shouldn't be eager to get rid of his customer base or community because its all that's keeping the store going. He said there's no such thing as a Warhammer community, its all just customers.
When I asked what his region manager thought of that, he implied it was the region manager who told him to not care about the customers who won't buy anything.
 

WindKnight

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Silentpony said:
Here Comes Tomorrow said:
Samtemdo8 said:
I gotta actually play the acutal Tabletop version of this game and not these pretender video game versions of it to comprehend game rules of the Tabletop. BUT WHY ARE THE FIGURINES SO DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!

$500 for a statue?!

How is Games Workshop not finanically fucked right now?
Fanboys and no interest in keeping a hold of long term customers.

They want kids to buy in for exuberant amounts of their parents money and then get bored in time for the next lot of 13 year old boys to come along.

And some people will keep buying whatever GW make regardless. I will say, the new CEO is actually making a good effort at turning the brand around. Cheap army starter sets that actually work as armies, small one off board games and Kill Team was just released as a small scale version of 40k, attention to niche armies like Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults. Costs are still insane, don't get me wrong but they're making an effort.
This. So much this. GW has no interest in keeping their old customers.

Hell, the manager at my local GW often says he'd be totally happy if people just bought models and paints and left, never playing any games or chatting. He and I even got into an argument once over Age of Sigmar where he said he was happy the massive rules change alienated the entirety of the Fantasy fandom, because they all already have full armies and never bought anything. So AoS allowed for new players to buy new models, and the old players stormed away to play old school Fantasy at their houses.
I told him he shouldn't be eager to get rid of his customer base or community because its all that's keeping the store going. He said there's no such thing as a Warhammer community, its all just customers.
When I asked what his region manager thought of that, he implied it was the region manager who told him to not care about the customers who won't buy anything.
Thats scary to hear... I mean, I haven't been in a store in years given the rising prices pushed me out of the hobby, but I always remember them being friendly places with a lot of community spirit. Though this was just before they were cutting staffing and opening hours to the bone.
 

Frankster

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Well if we count are counting all the human sub factions as one choice then it's easy, Imperium of Man gets my vote.

They have the general gothic esthetic and an array of factions i like, simple enough.


Samtemdo8 said:
But what about his apperant boner for the Ultramarines making them the big dog, the one above all Space Marines, the Chapter that spear headed the fight against Horus.
Off the top of my head..

Basically that came from Ward writing in the space marine codex that the Ultramarines were above every other sm chapter, and in fact every other sm chapter aspires to be like them, and those who don't are dieing or failing chapters (this came as news to space wolves and black templars amongst others).

Then there was an interview with ward where the guy gushes about ultramarines and how they are tactically superior to every other sm chapter which helped cement his ultra fanboyism.

Finally the 3rd thing that helped cement his rep if i recall was fluff involving ultramarines he had a hand in tended to portray them as super invincible and winning in every circumstance, a big departure from pre wardian ultramarines where they knew defeat and had the occasional loss, which they would learn from, and were less fanatical about seeing the codex astartes as some inviolable set of rules. Titus from the Space Marine game would be a perfect example of pre wardian ultramarines "the codex astartes is a set of guidelines".

Regarding costs: i remember fondly the time 5pounds of pocket money would get me a blister pack (so metal figurines) that would keep me happy for a while..ah simple days. 10 quid would get me most box sets such as an entire squad or most light vehicles and 15 pounds was for the most expensive things such as a landraider. I dunno how kids today can afford the hobby at all.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Frankster said:
Finally the 3rd thing that helped cement his rep if i recall was fluff involving ultramarines he had a hand in tended to portray them as super invincible and winning in every circumstance, a big departure from pre wardian ultramarines where they knew defeat and had the occasional loss, which they would learn from, and were less fanatical about seeing the codex astartes as some inviolable set of rules. Titus from the Space Marine game would be a perfect example of pre wardian ultramarines "the codex astartes is a set of guidelines".
The weirdest part is how they were portrayed that way when in every award story about their exploits, they get wrecked.

Taking out a hidden-behind-a-waterfall ork base? Lost dozens of their strike force, including several of their centuries old irreplaceable elite troops. Great success, Ultramarines are the best.

Protecting an old Eldar artifact nobody's using from the Eldar? Get the whole chapter involved, lose hundreds of marines, worst massacre since the Tyranids ate 25% of the chapter. Great success, aren't the Ultramarines cool.

It's like he forgets that a codex astartes based Space Marine chapter consists of roughly 1200 marines. And the Ultra really like the codex astartes.
Regarding costs: i remember fondly the time 5pounds of pocket money would get me a blister pack (so metal figurines) that would keep me happy for a while..ah simple days. 10 quid would get me most box sets such as an entire squad or most light vehicles and 15 pounds was for the most expensive things such as a landraider. I dunno how kids today can afford the hobby at all.
They can't, mostly. Star Wars: X-wing has taken over the top slot for miniatures games, and Star Wars: Armada is closing the gap from 3rd place.

Added to Fantasy Flight making better Warhammer based board games than GW could probably factored into GW's decision to let their license with Fantasy Flight lapse.
 

WindKnight

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altnameJag said:
Protecting an old Eldar artifact nobody's using from the Eldar? Get the whole chapter involved, lose hundreds of marines, worst massacre since the Tyranids ate 25% of the chapter. Great success, aren't the Ultramarines cool.

It's like he forgets that a codex astartes based Space Marine chapter consists of roughly 1200 marines. And the Ultra really like the codex astartes.
lil off topic, but played the blood angel themed Space Hulk game from a few years back (with mission scenarios taken straight from the first issue of white dwarf I ever read) and the intro kinda implied they deployed the entire chapter got deployed to a hulk... and less than 50 survived. I was very 'yeah, right, that would be the end of the chapter.'
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Windknight said:
altnameJag said:
Protecting an old Eldar artifact nobody's using from the Eldar? Get the whole chapter involved, lose hundreds of marines, worst massacre since the Tyranids ate 25% of the chapter. Great success, aren't the Ultramarines cool.

It's like he forgets that a codex astartes based Space Marine chapter consists of roughly 1200 marines. And the Ultra really like the codex astartes.
lil off topic, but played the blood angel themed Space Hulk game from a few years back (with mission scenarios taken straight from the first issue of white dwarf I ever read) and the intro kinda implied they deployed the entire chapter got deployed to a hulk... and less than 50 survived. I was very 'yeah, right, that would be the end of the chapter.'
Not as off topic as you think, given that was a rerelease of the 2009 version with the same fluff that came out around the same time as Ward's heresy.
 

Frankster

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Windknight said:
lil off topic, but played the blood angel themed Space Hulk game from a few years back (with mission scenarios taken straight from the first issue of white dwarf I ever read) and the intro kinda implied they deployed the entire chapter got deployed to a hulk... and less than 50 survived. I was very 'yeah, right, that would be the end of the chapter.'
Maybe it got retconned after you read it but way I remember it, the blood angels "only" lost most of their 1st company.
Would certainly make no sense for the chapter to have sent in their scouts so at the very least the 9 and 10th company+reserve companies (5th and 6th was it? or 7th and 8th?) would have stayed out of it even if the whole chapter really was assembled for that one hulk.

altnameJag said:
They can't, mostly. Star Wars: X-wing has taken over the top slot for miniatures games, and Star Wars: Armada is closing the gap from 3rd place.

Added to Fantasy Flight making better Warhammer based board games than GW could probably factored into GW's decision to let their license with Fantasy Flight lapse.
It's a "shame" (relatively speaking, both those games you mention seem quite good and i'm only :/ cos of misplaced gw fanboyism and nostalgia for a time when they weren't trying to hard to fail), i just don't see how GW can hold on in the miniatures business. At some point they are going to have to rely entirely on videogames and other media to keep the license alive because i find it hard to believe rich kids+a few hardened grognards who haven't been put off by all of GWs bs is all it takes to sustain their business model and their position in the tabletop industry.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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They're already being propped up by selling their license. Thats why there's so many shitty 40k app games floating about. Sales of models have be in a steady decline for years now and they're relying increasingly on license royalties and quick cash boosts from board games or events to make the drops look less severe.

They really just need to adjust their prices to compete and play a long term game but they're terrified of their stockholders getting pissy and focussing on giving them dividends that they would rather charge ?23 for a single character model and hope 100 people buy it than charge ?12 so 1000 people will buy it.
 

wings012

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The Salamanders seem like the only marines that are not total dickheads. I can count on them to not turn me into collateral damage in the name of the EMPRAH.

While the Tau as of late has all sorts of sinister undertones with the Ethereals, at least with them you're not getting flayed or shot right off the bat.

Chaos is only great when you are the Daemon Prince.
 

Erttheking

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Windknight said:
Yeah, Games Workshop has this weird thing where they flip out every time they realize one of their factions are halfway likeable and retcon them into being evil pricks. They did it with the Eldar and they did it recently with the Tau. I'm worried about what's going to happen to the Harlequins

OT: The Harlequins. They get shit done.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Wings012 said:
The Salamanders seem like the only marines that are not total dickheads. I can count on them to not turn me into collateral damage in the name of the EMPRAH.
Well lets be fair here, the Salamanders are not total dickheads for Space Marines. They'd still be the most evil thing ever in any other IP. The Salamanders aren't above burning little orphan Annie and her pet squirrel alive simply because the radiation of Annie's world,...Centauri IV, caused Annie to be born with a fucked up ear and a small little tail.

But you know, mutant. Must cleanse.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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erttheking said:
Windknight said:
Yeah, Games Workshop has this weird thing where they flip out every time they realize one of their factions are halfway likeable and retcon them into being evil pricks. They did it with the Eldar and they did it recently with the Tau. I'm worried about what's going to happen to the Harlequins

OT: The Harlequins. They get shit done.
I dunno what you mean, Harlequins have always been massive dickheads.
 

Erttheking

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Here Comes Tomorrow said:
erttheking said:
Windknight said:
Yeah, Games Workshop has this weird thing where they flip out every time they realize one of their factions are halfway likeable and retcon them into being evil pricks. They did it with the Eldar and they did it recently with the Tau. I'm worried about what's going to happen to the Harlequins

OT: The Harlequins. They get shit done.
I dunno what you mean, Harlequins have always been massive dickheads.
At least they can work with people to defeat Chaos with minimal fuss.