Poll: First Contact - If Intelligent Aliens Arive, Would They Invade?

[FPLOON]

One of the poll options is weird; invading our planet to save/better us seems contradictory.

I don't know... It sounds like the concept to Childhood's End...

OT: *aliens invade*
*say something in their own language*
Rough Translation (provided by Earth AI): "Holy shit! They were right! Planet E is really not worth the eon-trip!!"
*aliens leave*
*humans cheer, then feel insulted after Earth AI translates alien language*
*humans have even more motivation to travel through space just to get vengeance*
*insert start of new Syfy series based around said potential future events produced by The Asylum*

Other than that, Intergalactic Trade Circuit, yo!! #ITC4Life

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

-snip-

The problem with Bostrom's theory in my opinion is that it relies on the idea that habitable worlds have been around for a long time, relatively speaking it's fairly possible that Earth like planets are only possible around stars with in our spectral class. Due in part to the fact that Blue-white stars don't last long enough to develop habitable worlds. Also most of the materials needed for life to be possible are only created by blue-white super giant stars. So generally speaking, life in the universe is probably only a few billion years old all told, just because it takes time to get the necessary resources developed by stars and gathered in high enough concentrations for life to happen.

Edit: Also it discounts any theory that evolution eventually results in a post physical species.

Also besides that extinction level events happen relatively often, even full scale nuclear war is very unlikely to wipe humanity off the face of the Earth. The only thing that can wipe life off the face of the planet are one of two things. The failure of Earth's magnetic field, or the sun entering red giant stage of it's life.

 

[Strazdas]

Launching nuclear missiles when you can just steer a comet into a planet is kind of like trying to kill someone with papercuts, while you're at a gun show.

can we steer comets, though? from what i know the energy needed for that is not something we cant really attach to a comet without making some technological breakthroughs, like turning that comet into a fuel factory on the way.

For me "first contact" and exterminate are an either/or proposition. Any alien civilization advanced enough to travel interstellar distances is surely able to do the relatively simple (in comparison to interstellar travel) act of flinging a massive asteroid at any problem planets they encounter - if they want us dead, there is zero reason for them to actually invade. Just fling a few big rocks from the Oort cloud or Kuiper belt, wait a few years until the resulting extreme vulcanism has died down and viola a freshly cleansed planet with none of those problematic aggressive monkeys left to worry about.

Technological limitation may not be the only limitation, though. They may have societal constraits against such measures very much the same way our society would not tolerate simply dropping nukes on ISIS. we got no idea of their society structure, maybe they have to hunt the inhabitants as a honor tradition like the Predator movies or something.

 

[Andothul]

Earth has only two things as of we know that cannot be more easily and readily found on any other rocky planet or moon and that is liquid water and Life.

I believe that if aliens are ever to come to earth and make contact it'll be for one of two reasons. To ask us to join some sort of interstellar community/government or to force us in to some sort of forced servitude.
Liquid water may be rare but complex, sentient life is the rarest and most renewable resource there is.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

can we steer comets, though? from what i know the energy needed for that is not something we cant really attach to a comet without making some technological breakthroughs, like turning that comet into a fuel factory on the way.

We can steer a comet fairly easily, all we need really is to put a gravity tractor near it, pull it into falling towards the sun or one of the gas giants, then gravity catapult it at the target. Really a very easy thing to do, it'd be expensive, but easily enough done. Then we could reuse the gravity tractor to redo the same thing over and over again. Since all a gravity tractor is, essentially is an unmanned spaceship with ion engines, that's basically it, we could build several and pull the trick bunches. Still an interstellar species could do so even more easily.

 

[K12]

Definitely not for resources (unless the resource is humans for the purposes of their entertainment) and if they wanted to eradicate us then they could just send missiles to blow up the sun (or whatever) without having to bother to come themselves.

It's possible they'd invade to try and convert us to some wacky alien religion but I think all the other sinister intentions they might have don't seem worth the trip.

One negative possibility not considered in the list is that that they could end up accidentally destroying all life on Earth by bringing with them some alien pathogen which they are immune/resistant to we aren't (like colonists bringing the common cold with them). I'd hope that an advanced civilization would think of something like that but it's possible they could overlook it if their society has got to the point were all diseases are trivial to cure.

Having said that I'm generally quite optimistic about this, if it ever happens. I feel if they made the effort to come and meet us in person it's for the same reason we went to the moon; a sense of wonder, curiosity and achievement. There seems little tactical reason to do so otherwise.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

One negative possibility not considered in the list is that that they could end up accidentally destroying all life on Earth by bringing with them some alien pathogen which they are immune/resistant to we aren't (like colonists bringing the common cold with them). I'd hope that an advanced civilization would think of something like that but it's possible they could overlook it if their society has got to the point were all diseases are trivial to cure.

Well the fun part about that is that there are plenty of native pathogens here they'd probably be unprepared for. Since there are more of us here, than there the would be of them visiting, it's more likely that our microorganisms would wipe them out, not theirs wipe us out. Because there would be enough of us, enough local resources, and enough time for us to either gain a resistance or vaccinate their viruses and bacteria out of existence.

Edit: Assuming that we're remotely compatible when it comes to such things. For instance they might carry pathogens only dogs can get, which means they can get sick from our dogs, but interactions between them and humans would otherwise be safe.

 

[spartan231490]

They're aliens. Guys can't even figure out their girlfriend's behavior and you're asking me to predict the behavior of aliens? They might invade, if they want something we have and they don't really want to trade for it or if they're just a warfaring species. On the other hand, they might ignore us. On the other hand, they might attempt to civilize us, or trade with us, or give us technology, or enslave us, or study us, or do something we don't even have a word for to us.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

They're aliens. Guys can't even figure out their girlfriend's behavior and you're asking me to predict the behavior of aliens? They might invade, if they want something we have and they don't really want to trade for it or if they're just a warfaring species. On the other hand, they might ignore us. On the other hand, they might attempt to civilize us, or trade with us, or give us technology, or enslave us, or study us, or do something we don't even have a word for to us.

Like they have some xenophilic thing culturally and they want to bang all the humans for bragging rights?

 

[Kyrian007]

I had to vote "they won't bother." I had to break down the options.

Resources... no. If they made it here, they've taken care of any resource problem they may have had.

To "better" humanity... no. I don't see that we have any redeeming quality that would make an advanced civilization bother "saving" us. Or anything unique they couldn't just find closer to home somewhere else. Maybe if we are the VERY FIRST "intelligent" creatures they've ever encountered. But in an infinite universe... that's unlikely.

Colonize... no. Again if the technology to GET here exists, why bother colonizing? Why Earth? Way easier to just pick another planet that you don't have to conquer or invade. And there are scores of them nearby (for a species that can interstellar travel anyway.)

Eradicate humanity... no. Why would any species with the ability to interstellar travel bother to wipe us out. True, it would pose no challenge but it would also provide no benefit. We are too primitive to pose any level of threat to a civilization on that tech level. And we are centuries from even being close to dangerous enough to bother with. Most likely we will wipe ourselves out before be become any kind of threat.

Combo... no. I haven't found one reason yet.

Maybe... maybe? Again I'd have to figure out what the reason would be before maybe's a possibility.

No... yes. There isn't any reason to bother.

none of the above... no, see "no... yes." That's the answer.

 

[Strazdas]

We can steer a comet fairly easily, all we need really is to put a gravity tractor near it, pull it into falling towards the sun or one of the gas giants, then gravity catapult it at the target. Really a very easy thing to do, it'd be expensive, but easily enough done. Then we could reuse the gravity tractor to redo the same thing over and over again. Since all a gravity tractor is, essentially is an unmanned spaceship with ion engines, that's basically it, we could build several and pull the trick bunches. Still an interstellar species could do so even more easily.

Yeah, i know all that, its the "pulling it into suns gravity well" part thats going to be hard. youll need a lot of energy to offput uts current momentum.

 

[Thaluikhain]

One of the poll options is weird; invading our planet to save/better us seems contradictory.

Well, yes, but that hasn't stopped humans invading other nations with the justification that they are bombing people into freedom and democracy or whatever.

Well, if we encounter something like the Tyranids, whose its sole purpose is to spread itself much like the lifeforms on earth, then we are pretty much screwed. If interstellar travel is biological, and the individual is not important as the whole, then there is no need for intelligence thought, just killing. They might even be intelligent, but still colonize for the swarm.

Fortunately, the 'nids don't make any sense, they are just there to be grimdark. Even if they rocked up in our system, there's no reason they'd bother with our planet, or anything at the bottom of a big gravity well. Just harvest some convenient asteroids and move on.

That'd be a very boring first contact, aliens turn up, ignore us and go away.

 

[Trunipbob]

I find it interesting that everyone assumes, just because they have mastered space travel, that they are more advanced than us. It's entirely possible that while they have mastered interstellar travel, they have not yet worked out things we find simple. Maybe they have only just worked out radio communication, or microwave ovens, or pop tarts, fuck who knows what we have that is miles ahead of what they have.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

We can steer a comet fairly easily, all we need really is to put a gravity tractor near it, pull it into falling towards the sun or one of the gas giants, then gravity catapult it at the target. Really a very easy thing to do, it'd be expensive, but easily enough done. Then we could reuse the gravity tractor to redo the same thing over and over again. Since all a gravity tractor is, essentially is an unmanned spaceship with ion engines, that's basically it, we could build several and pull the trick bunches. Still an interstellar species could do so even more easily.

Yeah, i know all that, its the "pulling it into suns gravity well" part thats going to be hard. youll need a lot of energy to offput uts current momentum.

Well the idea is to send it towards the sun, or a gas giant in a really skewed orbit, because it'll gain speed the whole way, then shoot off in the predetermined direction at extreme speeds. The point is it's an unstable orbit, firing it off at speeds in a direction, from which it will never return. As for moving a comet out of it's current orbit? That won't take much energy actually, it's the point of a ship acting as a gravity tractor, we're not forcing it off it's orbit as much as using a ship near it to nudge it out of it's orbit. Things in deep space are in free fall in a vacuum, so it's not very difficult effect and change the orbit of smaller orbital bodies, like comets and asteroids.

 

[9tailedflame]

I don't really see any reason they would. If they're advanced enough to pull it off, they probably don't need our meager resources. If they have that level of technology, they can probably terraform to make themselves new planets to live on, and mine lifeless planets for resources, or use a Dyson sphere, ect... probably more efficient. Plus invading a lush planet like ours is probably a health risk, really not worth no matter what angle you look at it from.

Plus, i imagine at that level, new life would be highly valued just because it's life, which is kinda rare in the universe, at least by some margin. I honestly don't think the south park model, where life on earth is a TV show, would be that far off.

 

[RJ 17]

I'm going to go with Stephen Hawking's thoughts on the matter. The technology required to get to our solar system from the closest star in a reasonable amount of time would be hilariously more advanced than anything we've even considered as a possibility. As such, any alien civilization that discovers us here on Earth would be hilariously more advanced than us.

History has shown us - granted, this is human history - that whenever a highly advanced civilization discovers an inferior civilization, the advanced one either exploits, enslaves, or utterly wipes out the inferior one.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I'm going to go with Stephen Hawking's thoughts on the matter. The technology required to get to our solar system from the closest star in a reasonable amount of time would be hilariously more advanced than anything we've even considered as a possibility. As such, any alien civilization that discovers us here on Earth would be hilariously more advanced than us.

History has shown us - granted, this is human history - that whenever a highly advanced civilization discovers an inferior civilization, the advanced one either exploits, enslaves, or utterly wipes out the inferior one.

The problem I have wit Stephen Hawking's thoughts on the matter is he just looks at the technological side of things, forgetting that progress is as much social and cultural, as it is technological. Remember that human history is also fraught with religious zealotry and blatant racism fueling the conquest of other civilizations. Any Alien species we encounter is likely to be far more socially advanced than that, other wise it's likely they'd have trouble getting to serious space faring interests, let alone interstellar travel, just like humans have. Also the assumption is that aliens that discover us would be similar to us, when we could be talking a herd species that really is just terrified of our nature, like say Larry Niven's aliens known as Pierson's Puppeteers. We could just as easily be discovered by a telepathic, empathic species that with so much mutual lack of comprehension that the idea of invading is just pointless too. We really can't assign human motive to a race that would be hilariously more advanced than us, because they probably wouldn't need earth, us, or our solar system for any realistic reasons.

 

[RJ 17]

The problem I have wit Stephen Hawking's thoughts on the matter is he just looks at the technological side of things, forgetting that progress is as much social and cultural, as it is technological. Remember that human history is also fraught with religious zealotry and blatant racism fueling the conquest of other civilizations. Any Alien species we encounter is likely to be far more socially advanced than that, other wise it's likely they'd have trouble getting to serious space faring interests, let alone interstellar travel, just like humans have. Also the assumption is that aliens that discover us would be similar to us, when we could be talking a herd species that really is just terrified of our nature, like say Larry Niven's aliens known as Pierson's Puppeteers. We could just as easily be discovered by a telepathic, empathic species that with so much mutual lack of comprehension that the idea of invading is just pointless too. We really can't assign human motive to a race that would be hilariously more advanced than us, because they probably wouldn't need earth, us, or our solar system for any realistic reasons.

Or they could arrive and see us as nothing more than a savage cancer of a species that is destroying an otherwise opulent - resource wise - planet and feel they'd be doing the galaxy a favor by wiping us out.

Just sayin'...

 

[Tayh]

We've got better toys than we did back in the Middle Ages. If we don't stop killing each other, we'll never reach interstellar travel. You can only play with matches so many times before you get burned, and the way we're headed, even stateless terrorists will have access to a lot more than just matches.

And if we did stop killing eachother, we might never have invented nuclear fission or space travel.
A lot of Humanity's advances were invented during war or conflict.
Would there have been interest in developing a nuclear bomb if there were nobody to use it on?
Would there have been so much incentive to go into space if there wasn't an arm's race going on?
Would the Roman roads have been built if it wasn't to make deploying of Legions faster?
Would the technology level of Europe have skyrocketed above the rest of the world if there hadn't been hundreds upon hundreds of years of armed conflicts to breed competition?
I'm sure there are many more examples.

Conflict breeds invention and competition. That's just how Humanity works.
There's a reason why most civilizations(using this word in a 'Civilization The Game' sense) that strived towards Peace and Transcendence eventually got conquered and, in some cases, completely wiped out.

As an aside, I once read this short story about a space-faring civilization reaching Earth with the intent to conquer, only to, when it's all too late, realize that Human technocology in warfare was a few hundreds years advanced.
http://imgur.com/gallery/yH5KS

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Or they could arrive and see us as nothing more than a savage cancer of a species that is destroying an otherwise opulent - resource wise - planet and feel they'd be doing the galaxy a favor by wiping us out.

Just sayin'...

Any species that sees us as a problem on our own planet is likely to have other options, being absurdly more advanced than us. They simply could sit back and open betting books on weather we'll wipe ourselves out, or unify and fix our problems, which would be far easier and more entertaining than wiping us out. On the other hand if they're morally opposed to how we're conducting ourselves, they're still likely to see us as valuable, because we're sapient life forms. They then could easily and covertly subvert us and remake our society into something they see as beneficial, which would be mutually beneficial to both us and them. It'd also require less resources and effort than wiping us out, while providing a net gain. Because honestly to wipe humanity off the planet they'd basically have to destroy the world. Which would damage resources and destroy native life, which also means reusing the planet would be far more difficult. Also talking resources, an absurdly more advanced species can probably produce the resources of earth with little, or no effort, so our resources would have little, or no meaning to them anyways.