Poll: Games aren't gay enough.

[Vault101]

To be fair, we don't just have poorly written gay guys, we have poorly written everything right now. Hell, forget gay guys, we can't write good female characters. We can't even write good straight white males, it's that bad!
.

is it really though?

I mean I feel like I dont often have a grasp on "good" and "bad" writing but alot of female charachters and such come across to me as competantly written at least, just going on alot of the games I've been playing over the past year or so

and as peopel have aid..agyness only comes into question if theres roamnce involed (or the gae takes place in a christain theocracy and some of the charachters are gay/repressed)

 

[darlarosa]

To an extent...I think sexuality depends on...stuff
If you are playing Jim and have the choice of romancing all girls we can assume that Jim is heterosexual. If Jill can romance Mike, Mark, and Lola than we can assume Jill is bisexual. To me it depends on how the creators intend the game and characters to work. I am not personally for a "give everyone of all sexuality the option of romance" in terms of games where the main character is already premade. Sexuality is a very complex thing but can also be very simple. There are some characters who will never feel same sex or oppisite sex urges because that simply is not a trait given to them by their creators in their vision. If I make Carter a straight male PC and someone complains that while playing Carter they can't romance his male roommate, then to me that is simply because Carter is straight. The key is for creators to look at sexuality as a component of characterization.( some characters aren't thinking about flirting or sexual things and thus it becomes irrelevant to them and vice versa)

I'm not saying this isn't problematic, but in my eyes sexuality is heavily influencing a characters actions at times. At the same time I can name a few gay or bisexual characters but most all fall into a category of "stereotypes" of sexuality *shrug*.

 

[Signa]

I don't know OP. I'm not saying we should not have gays in games, but we really shouldn't have gays in games.
.

I don;t see why not..if its relevant

like for example your playing a agme that gives you "romance" options or it comes up in the story

Yes, if it's relevant. I tried to say that in the rest of the snipped post. I think that got lost in trying to say that I don't see it being relevant in the majority of games.

It could be pulled off if it was REALLY subtle, like Military Brown Shooter 2013 including a soldier that wraps his dog-tags in tiny pink ballet slippers, or keeps a teddy bear on his bunk, but has dialogue written just like everyone else. What I want avoided is the insulting stereotypes just for the sake of having gay people in their games. That's not a step forward at all, and I'm having a really hard time picturing it going down any other way.

 

[Vault101]

It could be pulled off if it was REALLY subtle, like Military Brown Shooter 2013 including a soldier that wraps his dog-tags in tiny pink ballet slippers, or keeps a teddy bear on his bunk,

erm....I cant imagine many people would do that...gay or otherwise...more like say if he kept a photo of another guy close

but yeah I see what you mean

[quote/]but has dialogue written just like everyone else. What I want avoided is the insulting stereotypes just for the sake of having gay people in their games. That's not a step forward at all, and I'm having a really hard time picturing it going down any other way.[/quote]

true, though I dont think thats what people are suggesting, more "if it can work..they why not?" mostly I think in cases Like Mass Effect (where it was intended for 1 but cut out)

much like female charachters as well...in the case of alien marines given the background of the scource material there is absolutely no reason females in multilayer can't work at all, where as somthing like assasins creed...(if there werent already) then I honestly wouldnt complain if there were no female assasins (at least ones in white hoods doing the stabbing)...I mean there are yes, but I could understand if there weren't...that kind of thing

 

[Signa]

It could be pulled off if it was REALLY subtle, like Military Brown Shooter 2013 including a soldier that wraps his dog-tags in tiny pink ballet slippers, or keeps a teddy bear on his bunk,

erm....I cant imagine many people would do that...gay or otherwise...more like say if he kept a photo of another guy close

but yeah I see what you mean

[quote/]but has dialogue written just like everyone else. What I want avoided is the insulting stereotypes just for the sake of having gay people in their games. That's not a step forward at all, and I'm having a really hard time picturing it going down any other way.

true, though I dont think thats what people are suggesting, more "if it can work..they why not?" mostly I think in cases Like Mass Effect (where it was intended for 1 but cut out)

much like female charachters as well...in the case of alien marines given the background of the scource material there is absolutely no reason females in multilayer can't work at all, where as somthing like assasins creed...(if there werent already) then I honestly wouldnt complain if there were no female assasins (at least ones in white hoods doing the stabbing)...I mean there are yes, but I could understand if there weren't...that kind of thing[/quote]
Yeah, I heard about those Aliens Marines not being female. I can understand the initial oversight, but it doesn't sound like they are going to bother hotfixing them in. That's retarded, because at that point, it's bordering on discrimination. After all, the fans are asking for it. Some of the best characters in Aliens were female, so the only excuse left is they are lazy and don't care.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

Deconstruct it far enough and being gay is a sexual preferance, so is preffering under age partners. Then we start getting into dangerous waters. I don't like to get too involved because we are supposed to feel pity for one sexuality and despise another. Why are there parades for one and court sentances for another?

...I feel genuinely frightened by your assertion and people who think in such a way.

You don't know gay people, you've said it yourself. So maybe you shouldn't compare this massive group of 30% of the total population to pedophiles, and condemn a group of people you clearly know nothing of.

You feel frightened by people who have a differant opinion? I never condemned gay people I just shrug. To my reasoning a sexual preferance is what you prefer to have intercourse with and often it isn't a choice. Some people are born gay, some develop it over time or just go through a phase. Just think its a bit odd that we advocate one group and are meant to do the 'right' thing and support them while condeming other minorities who share the same trait of being differant.

Your different opinion is simply thinly veiled bigotry. You dare compare pedophilia and homosexuality and act like you're the reasonable one? No. You're not reasonable. When a pedophile has sex with the child they desire, someone gets fucked up for the rest of their life. When a homosexual has sex with the person they desire, it's the same as heterosexual sex. No one gets hurts in adult, consenting relationships unless .. it's non-consenting.

Less bigotry more ignorance. As I said in my last argument here I mistook paedophillia for the term for any under age sex. Again with the 'you dare do this thing'. Who are you to talk to me like that? Anyshiz I resolved this a few pages ago and came off the better for it.

Lastly I don't look down on anyone for what they stick their dick in. We are differant, some are just unfortunate enough to be the 'wrong' differant.

 

[piinyouri]

It could be pulled off if it was REALLY subtle, like Military Brown Shooter 2013 including a soldier that wraps his dog-tags in tiny pink ballet slippers, or keeps a teddy bear on his bunk, but has dialogue written just like everyone else. What I want avoided is the insulting stereotypes just for the sake of having gay people in their games.......

This was sarcasm/snark/irony right?

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I can understand why we have this mindset. Western Culture is largely defined by the United States. And the United States has quite a lot of dumbfucks misguided people who think that gay people are some kind of alien species.

I understand you need to hate Americans the way plants need to synthesize sunlight, but you are deluding yourself once again.

I agree with everything else though, and well said. Zevran from Dragon Age: Origins got me really worried because he seemed a very stereotypical, 'flamboyant' gay. But if I recall correctly there are other gay romance options that are not like that. I think it worked because Zevran's flamboyance acknowledges something that really does contribute to the shared homosexual 'culture', and not necessarily in a bad way as you know if you've ever seen a pride parade. At the same time, the other romance options enforce the understanding that not all gay people are a certain way.

 

[Alandoril]

I agree there need to be more gay characters. But it should never need to explained, it should just be part of who the character is.

 

[00slash00]

i would love to see homosexuals more represented in games. not in a way thats pandering or in a way that makes a big deal out of it, but just so theres more of a balance of gay and straight characters. i would like to reach a point where having a gay character is no more big a deal than having a straight character

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

There certainly needs to be more gay or queer people represented, and represented well, in the gaming industry.

Along with, of course, women, strong women, and non-whites. Particularly blacks, who are almost non-existent as far as representation is concerned. Does the new Assassin's Creed game really star the first black female protagonist in all of video gaming? That's kind of exciting and sad at the same time.

By the way I really know how exploration of homosexuality and homosexual characters was done with Kanji in Persona 4.

 

[Adultism]

Okay first I am a homosexual. Well bi-sexual is what everyone refers to me as but I still like to say I prefer men over women. Anyways since Persona 3 and 4 are my favorite games OF ALL TIME, I'm going to have to pick at that post you just made

First Kanji isn't "gay" by any means. Yeah he defends himself in weird situations and his shadow was OBVIOUSLY flaming. But I think it was more of a, needing to get in touch with his feminine side kinda thing. He also had a crush on Naoto but It was pretty obviously a girl in disguise (sounded girly too) So I figured Kanji was just confused seeing a "feminine looking boy." However he may be bi-sexual but I'm pretty sure hes not gay. But its basically open up to discussion because they never reviled if he was or not, let you guess. So its all opinion.

I'm going to go on to COMPLETELY agree with you. There are a few instances like in Bully you can go around kissing boys, ME3 had a good example so did Dragon Age if I remember correctly. The fable series did it well too. But a lot of companies see it as a big risk having a homosexual character. Bias mostly.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

To be fair, we don't just have poorly written gay guys, we have poorly written everything right now. Hell, forget gay guys, we can't write good female characters. We can't even write good straight white males, it's that bad!
.

is it really though?

I mean I feel like I dont often have a grasp on "good" and "bad" writing but alot of female charachters and such come across to me as competantly written at least, just going on alot of the games I've been playing over the past year or so

I think he's probably talking about the female characters whose only defining characteristic are their breasts. I believe there are a lot more of those types of characters than there are just ?normal? women.

 

[Flutterfly]

Deconstruct it far enough and being gay is a sexual preferance, so is preffering under age partners. Then we start getting into dangerous waters. I don't like to get too involved because we are supposed to feel pity for one sexuality and despise another. Why are there parades for one and court sentances for another?

...I feel genuinely frightened by your assertion and people who think in such a way.

You don't know gay people, you've said it yourself. So maybe you shouldn't compare this massive group of 30% of the total population to pedophiles, and condemn a group of people you clearly know nothing of.

You feel frightened by people who have a differant opinion? I never condemned gay people I just shrug. To my reasoning a sexual preferance is what you prefer to have intercourse with and often it isn't a choice. Some people are born gay, some develop it over time or just go through a phase. Just think its a bit odd that we advocate one group and are meant to do the 'right' thing and support them while condeming other minorities who share the same trait of being differant.

Your different opinion is simply thinly veiled bigotry. You dare compare pedophilia and homosexuality and act like you're the reasonable one? No. You're not reasonable. When a pedophile has sex with the child they desire, someone gets fucked up for the rest of their life. When a homosexual has sex with the person they desire, it's the same as heterosexual sex. No one gets hurts in adult, consenting relationships unless .. it's non-consenting.

Less bigotry more ignorance. As I said in my last argument here I mistook paedophillia for the term for any under age sex. Again with the 'you dare do this thing'. Who are you to talk to me like that? Anyshiz I resolved this a few pages ago and came off the better for it.

Lastly I don't look down on anyone for what they stick their dick in. We are differant, some are just unfortunate enough to be the 'wrong' differant.

You certainly should care when it comes to pedophiles. Sex with a child is rape, always.

 

[Signa]

It could be pulled off if it was REALLY subtle, like Military Brown Shooter 2013 including a soldier that wraps his dog-tags in tiny pink ballet slippers, or keeps a teddy bear on his bunk, but has dialogue written just like everyone else. What I want avoided is the insulting stereotypes just for the sake of having gay people in their games.......

This was sarcasm/snark/irony right?

Nope. I was completely serious.

 

[Vault101]

I think he's probably talking about the female characters whose only defining characteristic are their breasts. I believe there are a lot more of those types of characters than there are just ?normal? women.

ummm....I havnt seen a "walking pair of breasts" for a while in games

 

[Catrixa]

Can't say more gay characters could hurt. At all, really. Honestly, as long as we're not adding them to say "ooh, hey! Look over here! This guy is gay! You will buy our game, because we're edgy and progressive!" I think we'd be fine.

Story-no-one-will-read time:
I was watching Warehouse 13 again, for the 11 billionth time, and I came to the realization: "Wow, every single character has *some* interesting thing about them. I don't think any of them are super-artsy and deep, but each one has more than just their [insert trope here] layer." These interesting things give new insight on each character, making them seem more like real, flawed people. I don't think video games need to define a character by the fact that they're gay (just like Pete isn't defined by having been an alcoholic, and Steve isn't defined by being gay [for anyone who watches that show, anyway]), but knowing a character is gay/straight/bi/trans can add a new level to them and make them an interesting character. And, in the end, video games could really use more interesting characters.

 

[Eomega123]

Fallout New Vegas - Arcade Gannon. Coolest gay character ever. Scientist, doctor, witty, hell of a shot with a plasma pistol. Shame he gets screwed over no matter what ending you get.

 

[II2none]

As long as said character has heavily redeeming qualities to over look his sexual preference. OR it's an optional experience. (Mass Effect 1 and 3) OR they are a minor character you'll rarely see I don't care.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Just out of curiosity is Kanji Tatsumi the one good gay character you're talking about?

And I know you mentioned Mass Effect, but I think Samantha Traynor is a really well written lesbian character. Or a really well written character who is a lesbian...


I don't think anybody's going to say there's enough good gay characters out there, but one thing that should be mentioned (That I thought goes with out saying) is that there aren't enough well written charters, gay strait, male, female, black, white, you name it. Maybe about 1 in every 50 (500, 5000?) characters is well written. and when you try to throw in a nuanced personality trait like homosexuality (That is SO easy to mishandle)that's a recipe for disaster.


One thing you can do that helps (It's what I do anyway and it helps add so many subtle layers of whateverness to the games I play) is just automatically assume all the characters are gay until it is made explicit that they're strait.

Good writing is when you don't have to spell everything out. So it may be only in my imagination but I can think the writers of certain characters are brilliant. It helps me enjoy games more.

Like Rita Mordio from Tales of Vesperia. I like her as a character already, but if pretend she's a lesbian and she just never lets on it makes her more interesting.
Same thing with Flynn.

This doesn't work as well with guys because (I'm guessing but) game writers and writers in general are more skittish about leaving male sexuality ambiguous, so if you go my rout you're going to end up with a ton of lesbians and not to many gay guys.