Poll: Greatest General of World War 2
- Thread starter Shock and Awe
- Start date
ok were the hell is Douglas MacArthur? he pretty much ran the war in the pacfic, and lets face it the Japs were alot harder to fight then the Germans. (no offence to Rommel who was a great general but you gotta give credit to a guy who pretty much crippled the Japanese navy and was fully prepared to plant his foot personally in the emperors ass before the attomic bombs fell.)
Rommel oversaw a massive expansion of the Atlantic Wall, the direction didn't come from Hitler, he just ordered Rommel to go improve the defenses. Rommel poured massive amounts of men, material, and money into the wall that could have been better spent aiding German industry making pretty much anything else. He was certainly correct to want to have rapid response forces but that hardly excuses his support for the expansion of the wall which was against every lesson taught in World War 2.Vandenberg1 said:
Ha, you got a point there. I will give the Maginot Line one thing though, it makes a good museum these days.Redlin5 said:
Churchill wasn't a General, the closest thing he did to that was being First Lord of the Admiralty....he was the guy who thought Gallipoli Campaign was a great idea.saintdane05 said:
I never understood Rommel train of thought during the build-up to D-Day.
I can see what he meant to achieve by "beating them on the beaches" but as other historians have stated, to even go near the beach with any form of concentrated force would've been a disaster due to the overwhelming Ship and later plane support. He rejected drawing them into the lands of France put forwards by (Manstien was it? i forget) but how does someone famed for his skills in maneuver and fluid attack-defence decide to commit to an idea so very immobile and attritional?.
I always thought that Monty's style of warfare, the constant building-up and hunkering down really broke Rommel's heart for it all, no matter what Rommel did he couldn't get monty to budge on anything despite some daring moves. Rommel's aides testify to his growing frustration with Monty. Coupled with mental and physical exhaustion i think that 1440-1943 Rommel is a completely different person to the Rommel of 1944
Thoughts?
Greatest general is far too... definite. i love and hate them all for different reasons, they are all flawed in some ways.
I do like Patton though, i hate how American Doc's portray him nowadays, just look at Patton360. But you can find so much interesting things about the man on his thoughts on warfare and how it should evolve. He had revolutionary ideas in that mind of his, an example would his thoughts on Mechanized and Armored warfare. I love the fact that he was during the 1930's, trying to push for new ideas and designs for tanks similar in style to the concept of a "Main Battle Tank". But no, the US army was content with their early M3 Lee design and the M2 series at the time. How'd that turn out?.
I can see what he meant to achieve by "beating them on the beaches" but as other historians have stated, to even go near the beach with any form of concentrated force would've been a disaster due to the overwhelming Ship and later plane support. He rejected drawing them into the lands of France put forwards by (Manstien was it? i forget) but how does someone famed for his skills in maneuver and fluid attack-defence decide to commit to an idea so very immobile and attritional?.
I always thought that Monty's style of warfare, the constant building-up and hunkering down really broke Rommel's heart for it all, no matter what Rommel did he couldn't get monty to budge on anything despite some daring moves. Rommel's aides testify to his growing frustration with Monty. Coupled with mental and physical exhaustion i think that 1440-1943 Rommel is a completely different person to the Rommel of 1944
Thoughts?
Greatest general is far too... definite. i love and hate them all for different reasons, they are all flawed in some ways.
I do like Patton though, i hate how American Doc's portray him nowadays, just look at Patton360. But you can find so much interesting things about the man on his thoughts on warfare and how it should evolve. He had revolutionary ideas in that mind of his, an example would his thoughts on Mechanized and Armored warfare. I love the fact that he was during the 1930's, trying to push for new ideas and designs for tanks similar in style to the concept of a "Main Battle Tank". But no, the US army was content with their early M3 Lee design and the M2 series at the time. How'd that turn out?.
I remember a quote once, "He's not a general, he just likes to play as one"Shock and Awe said:
Bernard Montgomery best overall general end of.He is constantly overshadowed because people do not know what he actually did.
He gets nearly killed in world war 1 by being shot in the lung.At the time he was forcing Germans out of a trench he then returns a year later and carries on the war.
He ran rings around Rommel successfully stopping his attacks 3 times.While completely out thinking Rommel plans.1st by correctly predicting where Rommel was going to attack and asked for the place to be reinforced.Then Rommel was forced to retreat at the Battle of Alam Halfa due to heavy fighting from British forces.After successfully turning the German/Italian forces at Second Battle of El Alamein while nearly running them out of the North Africa.Rommel counters with biggest build of German Armour in North Africa which he stops for the 3rd repel of attacks.The United States were so impressed they gave him the legion of merit.
He then helps plan and command the landings of Italy.
Montgomery then helps draw up the plans for the landings in Normandy aswell commanding all Allied forces on the day.During the invasion he noticed things were not going to plan so he 2nd plan was to attract German forces toward the British so the American armies could push forward.It worked like a charm and the German forces were rapidly surrounded by American,British and Canadian forces.
The British had took such a hit they were outnumbered by the Americans in Normandy and was forces to step down from command. He then at the battle of the Bulge manage to turn a really shitty situation of Allied troops being spread everywhere into an seriously organized offensive.The German commander he was facing said while asking for a report
"The operations of the American 1st Army had developed into a series of individual holding actions. Montgomery's contribution to restoring the situation was that he turned a series of isolated actions into a coherent battle fought according to a clear and definite plan"
Then later on the war he surrounded the German army group B in Ruhr.After the war came to a close he accepted the surrender of Germans forces in the Netherlands,Denmark and northern Germany
He gets nearly killed in world war 1 by being shot in the lung.At the time he was forcing Germans out of a trench he then returns a year later and carries on the war.
He ran rings around Rommel successfully stopping his attacks 3 times.While completely out thinking Rommel plans.1st by correctly predicting where Rommel was going to attack and asked for the place to be reinforced.Then Rommel was forced to retreat at the Battle of Alam Halfa due to heavy fighting from British forces.After successfully turning the German/Italian forces at Second Battle of El Alamein while nearly running them out of the North Africa.Rommel counters with biggest build of German Armour in North Africa which he stops for the 3rd repel of attacks.The United States were so impressed they gave him the legion of merit.
He then helps plan and command the landings of Italy.
Montgomery then helps draw up the plans for the landings in Normandy aswell commanding all Allied forces on the day.During the invasion he noticed things were not going to plan so he 2nd plan was to attract German forces toward the British so the American armies could push forward.It worked like a charm and the German forces were rapidly surrounded by American,British and Canadian forces.
The British had took such a hit they were outnumbered by the Americans in Normandy and was forces to step down from command. He then at the battle of the Bulge manage to turn a really shitty situation of Allied troops being spread everywhere into an seriously organized offensive.The German commander he was facing said while asking for a report
"The operations of the American 1st Army had developed into a series of individual holding actions. Montgomery's contribution to restoring the situation was that he turned a series of isolated actions into a coherent battle fought according to a clear and definite plan"
Then later on the war he surrounded the German army group B in Ruhr.After the war came to a close he accepted the surrender of Germans forces in the Netherlands,Denmark and northern Germany
He thought many rather bizarre, unnecessary actions were a good idea. The Dodecanese campaign during WWII for one thing, or a pet project that obviously never reached fruition of re-invading Norway. He was lucky to have another incredibly overlooked British (well, Northern Irish) general, Alan Brooke, as Chief of the Imperial General Staff to restrain his more outlandish ideas (like General Marshall on the US side, Brooke's was an administrative role). However if Churchill had lacked the capacity to come up with and be as exuberant and forceful as he often was about such ideas, he probably would've lacked the capacity to sustain his country through war against pretty depressing circumstances, not to mention the ideas he pushed that were good, such as invading Italy before France or courting the US when many Brits, including the ruling classes, were pretty contemptuous and dismissive of it (even if it wasn't his efforts that were the direct reason for the US joining the war properly).Shock and Awe said:
To add a Soviet general who isn't Zhukov, because he seems to be the only Soviet general known about except Chuikov, I'd suggest Rokossovskiy. The WWII vision of Soviet soldiers being thrown against German lines in an effort to batter their defences by dint of numbers resonates much more strongly with Zhukov (though given the circumstances the Soviets didn't really have much choice if they wanted to win).
Wrong. The Maginot Line did exactly what it was supposed to - make the Germans go around and use less advantageous attack territory. The problem was that the Germans brought their troops through the Ardennes Forest, a place that was so incredibly troop unfriendly that the French forces didn't put any significant defenders there, which in just about any other situation would have been exactly the right move, but the Germans made a brilliant strategic gambit and it paid off. If the French had made a different move and stationed significant troops at Ardennes, the German forces would have been annihilated when they were caught in the largest traffic jam in history.saintdane05 said:
Von Manstein and Guderian have 9 votes between them? The masters of Blitzkrieg (also known as modern warfare) are being outdone by three men who's 'brilliant' strategies involved "CHARGE!" (Zhukov, Patton and Montgomery, in case you were wondering).
Even Rommel is overrated, although he does deserve significant credit, unlike the other three.
Even Rommel is overrated, although he does deserve significant credit, unlike the other three.
I've always, without much thought toward his generalship, had a liking for Sokolovsky, mainly because it looks like Churchill managed to smuggle in a British man in a Soviet uniform.sextus the crazy said:
Pretty much this. Most people here have very little knowledge about WWII. As such, this poll means nothing.DJjaffacake said:
Indeed sir. I mean, AFTER WW2 he kind of... lost it, sure. But during WW2 he was invaluable in the Pacific front! And that's what this topic is about.Squilookle said:
Come to think of it, Eisenhower probably deserves a slot too. Granted, he wasn't a front lines general like some others but he was a great leader to be sure. Escapist polls need moar slots!
Uhhhhh, no. Nimitz and Halsey would be the ones who crippled the Japanese Navy. An amphibious assault on Japan would have been foolhardy at best, and disastrous at worst.ecoho said: