Poll: Gun Penetration

[Anarchemitis]

In my head I have two theories of realism for things like penetration.
1. Bullet hits obstacle
> Wood> less than 4 inches> Continue
> Metal> Stop
> Flesh> pain, -Xhealth> Stop
> Glass> Smash> continue

2. Go the friggen whole hog and make the entire game a scale atomic model why don't you! It'll make realistic fire, I promise!

 

[sanspec]

they should use collaspible enviroment instead of being able to shoot through things, have the things you hide behind start to wear away before exposing who ever is hiding behind the object

 

[KaynSlamdyke]

I have yet to see any firearms combat system that is anywhere near as lethal as what FNFF does in Cyberpunk 2020. One shot in the left shoulder from a Saturday Night Special can kill you straight off from shock alone.

Just like in the FBI reports that data was compiled from...

Gun penetration exists in real life, so I don't mind that working in a game. Unless you're hiding behind an engine block or a good thick wall of concrete or earth, cover is worthless other than to hide visually from the people shooting you.

The problem comes with that gremlin known as play balance. I don't want to be instakilled by someone with a minigun half the map away because the building I spawn in has walls made out of polyfiller. So while I applaud the idea of being able to shoot someone through the door they've just shut on me with my high caliber machine gun, I don't exactly want that to become the dominant mechanic why blasting every inch of scenary to kingdom come - especially if the game doesn't support the obvious consequences of shooting out lodebearing walls...

 

[moderndayvampire]

Give me some .367, .45, or .50 rounds... If you want to get through body armor, puppies, or car doors, can't go wrong with the Desert Eagle .357, except they are too f**king expensive to field by any paramilitary, military, or civilian force.

im trying to immagine a situation where a puppy would be in your line of fire where it would get penetrated i cant think of to many

 

[Pingrash]

I love the penetration system. It adds more realism. As long as it is done properlly. CoD4 did a good job with it.

 

[ReepNeep]

Desert Eagles aren't just rediculously expensive. They're huge, heavy, unwieldy and very unreliable. No one who knows a damn thing about guns would stake their lives on that pistol if they had alternatives. Also .45 acp is worse than 9mm luger at piercing obstacles (neither can do jack to body armour). .45 just creates much more serious wounds.

As to bullet penetration in videogames as a whole, overall I really like it in a 'realistic' game as long as they try to approximate how it really works. It makes the game less about camping behind cover and more about mobility which is much more exciting to me. If anything, the bullet penetration in CoD4 is too low: straight shots from any assault rifle round will penetrate cinderblock and brick walls.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6760530260633420235

 

[aussiesniper]

to be honest, in CoD4 the bullet penetration is very inconsistent. such as weapons like the M4A1 rifle penetrating blast shields designed to protect people from the superheated gasses released from a missile launch (countdown map). another one of the bullet penetration problems in CoD4 is that the hit indicator still works through walls, thus letting people effectively use a high-penetration gun like the M60 as a way of finding and killing you through a wall, despite them having no actual idea of where you were beforehand. the damage from weapons through walls is also rather odd, as sometimes you could get 9 or so hit indicators but no kill, whereas other times you could get only two or three hits with a similarly powered gun and get the kill.

 

[neems]

Agreed regarding Cod4. It's generally good, but has inconsistencies. Plus the game has UAV, which can completely screw the game balance. If you're on a mounted mg and your team's UAV goes up, you can shoot through practically anything to get the kills.

Still amazes me the number of people who don't use UAV jammer, particularly snipers (who can't silence their weapons in COD4).

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

The two main problems I have with bullet penetration are hit indicators, and ammunition.

I liked the bullet penetration aspect of Call of Duty 4, but agree with aussiesniper that the hit indicator could really throw things for a loop. In a map like Vacant someone picking a spot and blind firing with an M249, or in some maps the mounted machine guns (like in Overgrown) can just spray a house, if it a hit shows up they return to the spot with a few more bullets and odds are whatever hit is dead. Hit indicators could really fowl things up.

The other issue is ammunition. Most games it just isn't that big an issue, if worst comes to worst you can wing it with a pistol, the weapon from someone dead, or just die and respawn or wait for the next round and be back up to your full stores. This means that people can afford to be very, very generous with their ammunition and if there's bullet penetration there is often no reason to not clear an area not by entering it, but by putting a clip into it. There are areas of maps in Call of Duty 4 where I always stop and unload a good 10 to 15 rounds into before proceeding, even with the semi-automatic G3 I can afford to do this and unless someone hiding there is very lucky, they will catch at least one round and die. And if by some chance they don't die, follow up (although I have lost a fight through a wall before like this, player behind it had a fully automatic weapon and let loose a barrage after they took a non-lethal hit and killed me).

So at worst, bullet penetration can lead to a lot of "spray and pray" through walls, and with so much ammunition in most games as well as hit indicators, it can be a very effective tactic.

But bullet penetration can also lead to great moments too, hearing foot steps and firing a burst through the wall next to you and downing two guys (or being on the other side of the engagement and see a shower of tracers pass through the wall in front of you).

Overall, I like it, and I do still like the aspect of Call of Duty 4. But think it has to be carefully implemented.

 

[Lightbulb]

9mm pistol/smg ammo is the weakest out there.

0.22 rim fire? Or am i just being a pendant?

Well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM is in service so i guess not. Its not rim fire but still a .22...

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I like a realistic penetration model. Cover is just as much about concealment as it is protection.

The problem is if you have enough ammo to spray every piece of cover you come across...

 

[Stalington]

I think that they should have bullet penetration but add fully destructable cover, sure most of the cover will gone by the end of a multiplayer deathmatch but you can at least hide in the debris.

 

[Talisker]

9mm is 1 of the most penetrating rounds ever. Haven't you heard about the multitude of events where a man was shot with a 9mm and stayed on his feet laying down UZI fire for another ten minutes? ( thats why the U.S. Army went back to 45cal.)

Accually, 9mm subsonic is used because it dosen't penetrate. For example, air marshals use it because it will go through someones skull, demolish thier brain and stay inside. Thus not endagering the aircraft or passengers.

I think it's a good thing it makes the game more realistic.... if done right.

 

[Jumplion]

Personaly, i almost never use bullent penetration, especialy in CoD4. Usualy, i'm sure the bullet didn't even pass through
second if i DID use penetration it was probably by accident
thridly, if i do try to use penetration, it's on an object that can't be penetrated.

But i do like penetration, mainly because it adds to the intensity. A barage of bullets flying past you from the wall you were about to take cover in and one just barely hits you, gives a sense of urgency.

 

[TomNook]

Must...not...be...immature....douchebage....GOOD AS LONG AS IT MAKES SENSE! Thats better...

 

[Bodb]

Being able to penetrate sheet metal is nice. Being able to penetrate foot-thick stone walling is not.

 

[stompy]

See, I don't mind bullet penetration, but find it annoying when the bastard shoots me behind a damn concrete block.With a pea-shooter.

Though, I see where the OP is coming from. Tactical shooters, such as R6:V2, shouldn't make everything penetrable, since it does kinda kill the atmosphere. Though, I'm sure some tactical shooters could implement penetration without it becoming overkill.