Poll: Hardest Souls Game (including Bloodborne)
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If I had to rank them from Hardest to Easiest, Id say Dark Souls is the hardest, followed by Bloodborne, then Demons and Dark Souls 2 tied for easiest. I couldnt pin exactly why Dark Souls 1 is the hardest, but i can say Bloodborne is easier just because of the whole regain mechanic as well as the parry system being a lot safer. Demon's apart from one or two areas isnt particularly hard (although it does become retroactively harder if you get used to the poise system in DS1), and Dark 2 just has so many ways to play the game and cheese things that its never quite as challenging as the other games
Casual Shinji said:
Ofcourse it's slow as these are antique fire-arms. It's the same reason why they aren't very powerful outside parrying. I mean, why not take the stamina bar away while you're at it? That way you could hack&slash like kratos with john woo shooting skills.
Bloodborne has the tactical pace of a Souls game but with emphasis on offense rather than defense. They meticulously tweaked the game around this concept. Having to separately consider the gun outside of some combo repertoire(combined with stamina management) is what gives this game it's tactical depth. Just look at how boring a straight out action-game like God of War is in comparison. Bloodborne is about 'reading' and anticapting what your enemies are up to instead of just mindlessly mashing buttons. I think the parry timing of the guns(and the way they handle) is an integral part of that.
The obvious answer is: The first one you play.
But to be on-topic... I've only played Dark Souls 1 and 2 (and Scholar), and I'd say it depends greatly on your approach to the game. If you decided to go super poise heavy in DS1 a lot of encounters (in particular late-game bosses) become really easy, while that's not something you can really rely on in DS2, though magic is(or was at least) easy to cheese with in DS2 instead (Not too sure about DS1 in that department honestly). Ultimately I'll probably say DS1 due to it's early boss encounters. If you don't get lucky or figure out the trick with the Kapra demon I imagine a lot of people stop the game there.
But to be on-topic... I've only played Dark Souls 1 and 2 (and Scholar), and I'd say it depends greatly on your approach to the game. If you decided to go super poise heavy in DS1 a lot of encounters (in particular late-game bosses) become really easy, while that's not something you can really rely on in DS2, though magic is(or was at least) easy to cheese with in DS2 instead (Not too sure about DS1 in that department honestly). Ultimately I'll probably say DS1 due to it's early boss encounters. If you don't get lucky or figure out the trick with the Kapra demon I imagine a lot of people stop the game there.
Dragon's Dogma.
I kid, that's just the only thing even remotely close that I've played. I remember I played one of those on the PC, whichever was the first to do it, and it was a god damn disaster. Besides being a terrible port I just didn't find it very fun. It seemed less about being difficult and more like one of those super hard Mario levels with invisible blocks every five feet that just turn into a rhythm game.
I love the idea though. Maybe I should try Bloodborne....if it ever goes PC.
I kid, that's just the only thing even remotely close that I've played. I remember I played one of those on the PC, whichever was the first to do it, and it was a god damn disaster. Besides being a terrible port I just didn't find it very fun. It seemed less about being difficult and more like one of those super hard Mario levels with invisible blocks every five feet that just turn into a rhythm game.
I love the idea though. Maybe I should try Bloodborne....if it ever goes PC.
Dark Souls for it's consistency in it's difficulty, and because the Anal Rodeo archers will never not be memorable and funny.
With Bloodborne following it RRRRRRREEEEEALLLY closely due to: High level Chalice Dungeon bosses that OHK on 90% of their moves, The Old Hunters DLC, NG+ being a huge lie (it's actually NG++ in disguise), and just general combo strings that intend on you dashing into the finishing blow on your HP bar.
Demon's Souls, while being my favorite atmospherically has a bit too much imbalances that lead to easier encounters, and a majority of Dark 2's bosses (minus the final few DLC's) are the chumpiest of chumps, that not even the wonkiest of hit boxes in the series could make harder.
With Bloodborne following it RRRRRRREEEEEALLLY closely due to: High level Chalice Dungeon bosses that OHK on 90% of their moves, The Old Hunters DLC, NG+ being a huge lie (it's actually NG++ in disguise), and just general combo strings that intend on you dashing into the finishing blow on your HP bar.
Demon's Souls, while being my favorite atmospherically has a bit too much imbalances that lead to easier encounters, and a majority of Dark 2's bosses (minus the final few DLC's) are the chumpiest of chumps, that not even the wonkiest of hit boxes in the series could make harder.
I think I had much more trouble with DS2 than the others. Dark Souls 1 had a lot of specific areas that stymied me for a bit (Anor Londo in particular held most of these). But overall I think I died more in 2. I died so many goddamn times to the pursuer it isn't funny, and some of those areas made me want to pull my hair out at times. By the time I reached Bloodborne I was well and truly into the groove, and had the least trouble with it. I think only 1 boss got me more than two times in my first playthrough (I apparently got super lucky with Rom that time).
This is also a game that has a serrated chain whip cane and a naval cannon fire arm, so I don't think there's a reason they need to be authentic about how the guns fire. They run on blood bullets, too, after all.stroopwafel said:
And now that you mention the stamina bar, there is actually very little reason for its inclusion, since it regenerates so fast and the penalties are negligible. It's not like low stamina can ever get you caught with your pants down like in Dark Souls. All it does is limit your attacks for like 1 second.
How is that adding depth though, apart from using it against the occasional brick troll or executioner? How does not including the ability to use it in a combo string make it tactical? The only reason to ever use the gun is against enemies that otherwise can't be staggered and that can wreck you in one or two hits. You can't even manually aim it to shoot someone in the face or legs to bring them off balance or whatever.
You say how boring a straight-up action game is by comparison, but Bloodborne is a straight-up action game. It simply has the weird control constraints of an RPG, but without the added benefits of being an RPG.
Easily Dark Souls 2: I couldn't tolerate playing it for more than an hour... Arf!
Aside from snark? Er, dunno, given difficulty and challenge are highly subjective things. I've seen all of Demon's Souls in LP's more than once but never played it (it seems easier yet tougher, depending on how a player tackles the world orders), and I'll likely never play Bloodborne. So out of DS 1 and 2: other than me just not liking the game at all, DS2 was more of a videogame-y frustration than DS, so by default I'll go for that.
No Souls/soulsian game is really hard, though, provided the player prepares to learn from their mistakes and pay attention to the smallest details.
Aside from snark? Er, dunno, given difficulty and challenge are highly subjective things. I've seen all of Demon's Souls in LP's more than once but never played it (it seems easier yet tougher, depending on how a player tackles the world orders), and I'll likely never play Bloodborne. So out of DS 1 and 2: other than me just not liking the game at all, DS2 was more of a videogame-y frustration than DS, so by default I'll go for that.
No Souls/soulsian game is really hard, though, provided the player prepares to learn from their mistakes and pay attention to the smallest details.
That's why I prefer the Blunderbuss as my gun. It's faster to shoot and more difficult for the enemy to dodge at close range. Although I have seen you can parry with other stuff too. There was a boss in the Chalice Dungeons that loved toCasual Shinji said:
This poll needs an option for King's field!
I've only played 1 and 2.
2 is harder because they arbitrarily poop on shield users who want to play the game properly, and in each patch they pooped a little harder.
So many unblockable attacks, the addition of lag-bashing on top of lag-stabbing, and the fact that enemies hit notably harder all add up to an unreasonable hatred for the proper way to play Souls.
I've only played 1 and 2.
2 is harder because they arbitrarily poop on shield users who want to play the game properly, and in each patch they pooped a little harder.
So many unblockable attacks, the addition of lag-bashing on top of lag-stabbing, and the fact that enemies hit notably harder all add up to an unreasonable hatred for the proper way to play Souls.
I'm sure there is a correct mechanical answer but how it actually works for you is it will be the first one you play, I was struggling with basic ghouls and skeletons in DS1, now I could run rings around them with a broken sword hilt.
Hard to say. They have different ways of being difficult. I would like to say Bloodborne is the overall hardest of the ones I've played if you include optional stuff, and may be the hardest for an unprepared "Souls Virgin". Dark Souls 1 is a bit more immediately difficult, while DS2 is more difficult in the obnoxious sense.
However, I haven't played Demons' Souls yet (or Bloodborne's DLC for that matter). Maybe that will eat my ass out more than the others will. I've heard some rather charming tales of the Valley of Defilement. Sounds pleasant.
Dark Souls 1 Harder: BlightShitetown, Tomb of the Giants, and Sen's Funhouse can grind you to a halt. Fuck the Anor Londo archers. Pretty steep early game difficulty. Ornstein and Smough is a pretty vicious gang-bang. No fast-travel until mid-game. Weight limit makes rolling more viable for the very lightest characters.
Dark Souls 1 Easier: Enemies are fairly easy to back-stab and parry. Difficulty balances out after you beat Ornstein and Smough. 20 estus maximum is pretty forgiving and not difficult to get. Playing with a shield is very viable and can make some encounters trivial. Lots of shortcuts. Ninja-flippy ring can make enemies IMPOSSIBLE to hit you. AI is particularly derpy.
Dark Souls 1 Easier: Enemies are fairly easy to back-stab and parry. Difficulty balances out after you beat Ornstein and Smough. 20 estus maximum is pretty forgiving and not difficult to get. Playing with a shield is very viable and can make some encounters trivial. Lots of shortcuts. Ninja-flippy ring can make enemies IMPOSSIBLE to hit you. AI is particularly derpy.
Dark Souls 2 Harder: Health bar shrinks every time you die (or you can waste). "Humanity" is limited. Enemies are harder to back-stab. Frigid Outskirts is a horribly designed area and is downright the hardest area in any Souls game I've played (I don't care if it's DLC. Fuck that zone). Fuck Iron Keep too. Enemies don't have reasonable stamina and will spam attacks constantly, especially the NPC invaders (of which there are plenty). Not friendly for sorcerers in the early game. Hitboxes are nonsense. Some enjoyably difficult bosses (Sir Alonne) as well as several bosses difficult for adding lots of little, obnoxious enemies (Royal Rat Authority). Start out with 1 estus, maximum 12. Fewer shortcuts. Estus takes forever to heal you up. Poison is no joke. Many game-changing events are not made clear (namely the windmill).
Dark Souls 2 Easier: Bosses are mostly humanoid and have predictable attack patterns. Shields still somewhat viable, but it'll take a while before you get a 100% physical damage shield (unless you manage to find the Drangleic shield...which I didn't until it was obsolete). Fast-travel instantly available. Leveling is quick. More forgiving weight limit making tanky characters more mobile.
Dark Souls 2 Easier: Bosses are mostly humanoid and have predictable attack patterns. Shields still somewhat viable, but it'll take a while before you get a 100% physical damage shield (unless you manage to find the Drangleic shield...which I didn't until it was obsolete). Fast-travel instantly available. Leveling is quick. More forgiving weight limit making tanky characters more mobile.
Bloodborne Harder: The later chalice dungeons can be difficult (Defiled chalice...never again after I beat it). Y'hargul can be tricky with the constant enemy respawns/buffs. Hunter battles can be absolute chaos. Enemies take off a lot more health (some only need 2 or 3 hits to kill you at any point in the game). Some enemies are designed for you to NEED to parry to get decent progress. No hiding behind shields. Fewer combat options, especially from range (ie no sniping with arrows or magic. Just get up in there). Highly consumable focused (and it can be super expensive). No significantly better armour sets, so you have to make do and change accordingly. Values more of an offensive risk vs reward system, which may encourage you to play more recklessly. Some enemies can't be easily parried (if at all).
Bloodborne Easier: Lots of freedom in movement. Stamina goes down much slower than other games. Lots of healing items (much faster than estus as well). If an enemy can be snuck up on, you can back-stab them without much difficulty. Early game is pretty decent (though I'm also playing it fresh off of the other two games). Lots of shortcuts. Regain can make some enemy hits trivial. Fast-travel instantly available. No weight limit.
Bloodborne Easier: Lots of freedom in movement. Stamina goes down much slower than other games. Lots of healing items (much faster than estus as well). If an enemy can be snuck up on, you can back-stab them without much difficulty. Early game is pretty decent (though I'm also playing it fresh off of the other two games). Lots of shortcuts. Regain can make some enemy hits trivial. Fast-travel instantly available. No weight limit.
However, I haven't played Demons' Souls yet (or Bloodborne's DLC for that matter). Maybe that will eat my ass out more than the others will. I've heard some rather charming tales of the Valley of Defilement. Sounds pleasant.
Prepare your anus. You thought Blightown was bad? It's nothing compared to the Valley of Defilement. Blightown was an immense improvement. Hell, I basically skipped blightown on my first playthrough, and after going back to explore it, I never returned in any of my subsequent playthroughs. The Valley of Defilement was about ten times longer, ten times more miserable, and there's no way to skip it. It did have one of the best endings, though.Raggedstar said:
OT: I've heard people say that the first game you play is the hardest, but I'm not sure. Dark Souls was pretty hard, but once you grasp the mechanics it gets much simpler. I basically ran circles around Seathe, trying to cut off his tail, and could have killed him any time I wanted. Having played Bloodborne, and gotten a better understanding of the game, I still get stomped in it. There's no real way to stack the deck in your favor. No Havel armor or maxed out magic set for you. You just sort of get it, or...you don't. It seems much more skill based, and much less forgiving.
The only part of VoD I didn't really like was that large poison swamp area that have you moving at a snails pace while those turds with the huge clubs group up on you. It was the only part of Demon's Souls that felt cheap to me. Other than that though I quite liked the area. It had a kick-ass atmosphere.Fox12 said:
Completely disagree but don't feel like repeating myself regarding the dynamics of the combat in Bloodborne or how the lack of a progression system(and thus its RPG mechanics) would break the game's flow. If you think its a similair action-game as God of War than that's fine by me.Casual Shinji said:
I liked the lore, and thought Astraea was much more interesting then The Fair Lady in Dark Souls. It was a pretty underwhelming boss fight, but that's what made it great. You spend the whole game fighting huge bosses, and suddenly you're up against a sick girl and her guard. It also really made you question your actions. The denizens of the area were as interesting as they were grotesque. In theory it was a pretty cool setup.stroopwafel said:The only part of VoD I didn't really like was that large poison swamp area that have you moving at a snails pace while those turds with the huge clubs group up on you. It was the only part of Demon's Souls that felt cheap to me. Other than that though I quite liked the area. It had a kick-ass atmosphere.Fox12 said:
But the gameplay was miserable. Any level that builds itself around poison and status affects can fuck right off. It was almost enough to kill the game for me. Also, it was the third area set underground. After the stone tunnels and Shrine of storms I was really sick of dark underground caverns.
I think Bloodborne wins for me by virtue of its DLC bosses alone (though I haven't played Demon's Souls yet).
If you know exactly what to do in Dark Souls you can speed through the game with almost no issues, especially considering most of the required boss fights do have an available phantom summon (which makes arguably easy bosses even easier). I think a lot of the Bloodborne bosses do a much better job of generally being more dangerous.
Having said that, I haven't played a NG run of Dark Souls II in a while, so I may go ahead and do that just to see how its difficulty holds up. Would rather do it when I'm actually able to get the DLC, though. Which isn't now. And I'd also like to play Demon's Souls eventually, but just hoping for a PS4 re-release or something.
If you know exactly what to do in Dark Souls you can speed through the game with almost no issues, especially considering most of the required boss fights do have an available phantom summon (which makes arguably easy bosses even easier). I think a lot of the Bloodborne bosses do a much better job of generally being more dangerous.
Having said that, I haven't played a NG run of Dark Souls II in a while, so I may go ahead and do that just to see how its difficulty holds up. Would rather do it when I'm actually able to get the DLC, though. Which isn't now. And I'd also like to play Demon's Souls eventually, but just hoping for a PS4 re-release or something.
#1 Dark Souls
The most balancedly and fairly difficult of all of them. Aside from maybe Blighttown, all the areas feel fair and balanced. While some of the bosses are cakewalks, most of them put up a fair fight. Tomb of the Giants is perhaps the hardest area in the game. When I bought the DLC the game humbled me once more as the very first boss shot the difficulty through the fucking roof.
#2 Demon's Souls
A close second, but the difficulty is very cheaply done in a lot of places (instakill from the dragon on the wall, Valley of Defilement's endless drops, halving your health on death). The bosses are also mostly really easy by Souls standards.
#3 Bloodborne
Maybe I just got gud, but I didn't find BB that difficult. A lot of the bosses I beat on the very first try, few areas even came close to something like the Tomb of Giants or Anor Londo in terms of challenge, and DLC aside I never got stuck on a single boss for what felt like dozens of attempts. Well Darkbeast Paarl, but only because I was challenging him way earlier than you're supposed to. The DLC bosses, however, are absolute murder, and some of the best fights in the series. And by God, the soundtrack in Maria's fight is amazing.
#4 Dark Souls II
The main game is a total cakewalk by Souls standards. Enemy attack patterns are generally very predictable, as are most of the bosses. Aside from Shrine of Amana (we've all been there) and maybe Earthen Peak if you don't know how to remove the poison, the areas are also very easy. But if you add the DLC, then DSII might actually surpass Bloodborne. The enemies hit like a freight train and the level design and enemy positioning mostly prevent any cheesing. Especially the Iron King DLC with a magic character is absolutely vicious, and Lud and Zallen in the Ivory King are the only boss in the game I never beat once. But it's a shitty and cheap fight with every attempt taking 10+ minutes anyway, so I don't consider it a terrible loss. The co-op area in Iron King is also insanely hard if you can't catch the gate you can open at the start.
The most balancedly and fairly difficult of all of them. Aside from maybe Blighttown, all the areas feel fair and balanced. While some of the bosses are cakewalks, most of them put up a fair fight. Tomb of the Giants is perhaps the hardest area in the game. When I bought the DLC the game humbled me once more as the very first boss shot the difficulty through the fucking roof.
#2 Demon's Souls
A close second, but the difficulty is very cheaply done in a lot of places (instakill from the dragon on the wall, Valley of Defilement's endless drops, halving your health on death). The bosses are also mostly really easy by Souls standards.
#3 Bloodborne
Maybe I just got gud, but I didn't find BB that difficult. A lot of the bosses I beat on the very first try, few areas even came close to something like the Tomb of Giants or Anor Londo in terms of challenge, and DLC aside I never got stuck on a single boss for what felt like dozens of attempts. Well Darkbeast Paarl, but only because I was challenging him way earlier than you're supposed to. The DLC bosses, however, are absolute murder, and some of the best fights in the series. And by God, the soundtrack in Maria's fight is amazing.
#4 Dark Souls II
The main game is a total cakewalk by Souls standards. Enemy attack patterns are generally very predictable, as are most of the bosses. Aside from Shrine of Amana (we've all been there) and maybe Earthen Peak if you don't know how to remove the poison, the areas are also very easy. But if you add the DLC, then DSII might actually surpass Bloodborne. The enemies hit like a freight train and the level design and enemy positioning mostly prevent any cheesing. Especially the Iron King DLC with a magic character is absolutely vicious, and Lud and Zallen in the Ivory King are the only boss in the game I never beat once. But it's a shitty and cheap fight with every attempt taking 10+ minutes anyway, so I don't consider it a terrible loss. The co-op area in Iron King is also insanely hard if you can't catch the gate you can open at the start.
I'd say the DLC areas of Dark Souls 2 are the hardest I've played, but I've not played Bloodborne. However most of that difficulty is less about actual challenge and far more about just being a cheap bastard. Demon's Souls has its share of cheap bastardy (like those fucking flying manta rays which you NEED the Thief Ring to not get slammed out of nowhere with no warning by) as does Dark Souls 1. However the DLC areas of DkS2 are just plain absurd in some places.