Poll: "Heartbroken" Microsoft Employee Explains How Family Sharing Would Have Worked

[immortalfrieza]

Snip

First, I never said that one person can't do it, just that if you've got a team, all the better.

Second, an indie development team isn't going to be paying anything close to half a million dollars if anything at all until the newbie company is raking in enough to be able to afford it. The team doesn't cost a penny if games never materialize and/or if they never sell because nobody is getting paid for ANYTHING until there's money to pay people with. All it really takes to make a half decent game is a vision of what that game is and the dedication to actually make it happen, not the cost, number of people involved, or even the time, it just helps to have those things. That's true of industries in general, always has been, always will be.

Third, people like you are the reason why development it isn't cheap, you're not willing to even consider that it can be and to admit the fact that it is already more than possible, and that even if it wasn't it STILL could be significantly cheaper than it is. Like you, game developers aren't even willing to try so you all just call it impossible in a pitiful attempt to justify that position. You want to know how the real world works? I'll tell you:

Whatever it is, you don't accomplish ANYTHING if you refuse to at least acknowledge the fact that it can be done, if you do you've failed before you even start. Put a little effort into it and if it's actually possible it'll happen.

There are stories out there, we've all heard them, of somebody working their ass off for a ridiculous amount of time only for it to not amount to anything, as well as those who just have what they want fall into their laps without any effort on their part, and everyone in between. With all the billions of people out there throughout history all have and will continue to happen, and this is no different. I've noticed that there are 2 things people call impossible,
A. things that are genuinely impossible regardless of any and all efforts to make it happen, of which there are very few if truly any, and
B. things people CALL impossible that can be done, sometimes easily, and I've seen that most people don't really know the difference. In most cases calling something impossible really just means that you don't give enough of a damn to make it happen.

 

[immortalfrieza]

You know, there has been a practice that has been "recently" popularised by software engineers. It is called software reuse. A very neat thing, imagine having an engine that can be used for multiple games and is easily modifiable just like many reuse aimed softwares. Actually these lunatics in valve have cought onto that have made their own: Source engine which has been used by almost every game and their dog. As you said making an engine is hard and expensive. I have never made an engine myself but i know it is expensive. So why not reuse it and manage the spending so we won't have 200M$ smt flops again.

Forgot about that, would have mentioned it otherwise. Not that it would have mattered, his "arguments" if you can call it that amount to "making games is expensive!" I point out it doesn't have to be, "you can have all the proof in the world you're still wrong!" Basically, he knows I'm right, he knows he's wrong, he just doesn't want to admit it.

 

[Amakusa]

So it's just a glorified demo system to get your family to buy the game. If this is what they were after, i fail to see why word of mouth isn't just as effective. Heck when i want my sister to get a game (we both have ps3), i tell her to get it and convince her to get it so we both can play. I also do that with friends if i want them to try out mmos on the pc. And if they are uncertain, they can download a demo for themselves.

Word of mouth, more effective and it's free .

If this is what Microsoft was planning to peddle as family sharing the future BS, they can keep it.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Snip

Ok, you know what? You haven't listened to a word I've written up to this point. The fact is, game development can cost companies much MUCH less than it does and even nothing, and I've explained many ways that can happen how over and over again and you just ignore it throw up strawmans left and right. I've said all that can be said, and any reasonable person would have admitted that they're wrong and I am right by now.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

So the family sharing was even worse than people thought?
And here I was, thinking it wasn't too bad a feature...

 

[Altorin]

You want to stop used game sales? Offer your games through digital purchase......for less. Both initially...and drop the digital sales price every few months as well.

Poof...do that long enough and used game sales will dry up naturally.

Physical copy of a game sells for $60.....Digital for $50.....at launch.

2 months later the Digital copy drops another $10....to $40.

Why sell digital games for $10 less? Do you have a reason to think it takes $10 to make and stock a disk when you're doing it in bulk?

Yeah, gamestop etc won't be pleased by the situation..but the can still make money selling physical copies of games...at least till most people decide there is no reason to buy them anymore.

that's exactly why gamestop would just refuse to stock the game. If you're a triple A and gamestop refuses to stock your game because you made it $5-$10 cheaper on steam you're fucked

Gamestop refuses to sell the game... so it's sold exclusively on digital... where every sale counts as big bucks for them instead of small bucks.

Still better..

If Microsoft (or any of the big 3 for that matter) had full digital distrubution for all their games, and incrementally lowered their prices until they were about 25 dollars after 3 or so years, I would be hard pressed to buy another used game again. I'd never have to step into another Gamestop (or EB games as I'm canadian). I can't be the only person that thinks this way, and even a "new" sale of 25 dollars is better for them then a used sale of 40 dollars.

The only reason for used games at that point would be to reduce the huge drain on bandwidth. Could you imagine purchasing 3 full 20-30gb games digitally? Maybe for you that's nothing. Maybe for you that's nothing, but for me (and a LOT of other people), that would be ridiculous. That would hit my bandwidth cap just like that. So maybe I would still buy used games just because of that.. but I'd certainly be more inclined to play ball with them if they would play ball back, but they won't, so I'll just trade games with my friends, and buy used until the shangrila of unlimited internet bandwidth and respectable tiered pricing comes to consoles.

 

[Saika Renegade]

So... in the end, this would have been a glorified game pitching system with time limits, launch limits, and (I'll bet you) disabled saves. How is this any different in the end than the scads of demos I can already download from any digital distribution system of my choosing?

It's hardly a ground-breaking innovation--it's just an old concept with a new coat of paint on a slightly different arrangement of wheels. How would that get anyone on their wagon at $500 a pop?

 

[mike1921]

You want to stop used game sales? Offer your games through digital purchase......for less. Both initially...and drop the digital sales price every few months as well.

Poof...do that long enough and used game sales will dry up naturally.

Physical copy of a game sells for $60.....Digital for $50.....at launch.

2 months later the Digital copy drops another $10....to $40.

Why sell digital games for $10 less? Do you have a reason to think it takes $10 to make and stock a disk when you're doing it in bulk?

Yeah, gamestop etc won't be pleased by the situation..but the can still make money selling physical copies of games...at least till most people decide there is no reason to buy them anymore.

that's exactly why gamestop would just refuse to stock the game. If you're a triple A and gamestop refuses to stock your game because you made it $5-$10 cheaper on steam you're fucked

Gamestop refuses to sell the game... so it's sold exclusively on digital... where every sale counts as big bucks for them instead of small bucks.

Still better..

If Microsoft (or any of the big 3 for that matter) had full digital distrubution for all their games, and incrementally lowered their prices until they were about 25 dollars after 3 or so years, I would be hard pressed to buy another used game again. I'd never have to step into another Gamestop (or EB games as I'm canadian). I can't be the only person that thinks this way, and even a "new" sale of 25 dollars is better for them then a used sale of 40 dollars.

The only reason for used games at that point would be to reduce the huge drain on bandwidth. Could you imagine purchasing 3 full 20-30gb games digitally? Maybe for you that's nothing. Maybe for you that's nothing, but for me (and a LOT of other people), that would be ridiculous. That would hit my bandwidth cap just like that. So maybe I would still buy used games just because of that.. but I'd certainly be more inclined to play ball with them if they would play ball back, but they won't, so I'll just trade games with my friends, and buy used until the shangrila of unlimited internet bandwidth and respectable tiered pricing comes to consoles.

The publishers still get the vast majority of a new sale. 2 DD sales for $25 could well be worth less than 1 physical for $60. Also, gamestop could EASILY compete with $25 DD on 3 year old titles. they could just make it $10-$20.

That only applies to Microsoft games. Microsoft wouldn't dare force activision and EA to drop their prices.

EB games isn't about being Canadian. Gamestop bought out EB Games years ago, you're still going to gamestop they just never bothered to change the sign. My "EB" was called "EB" despite the buyout for years. Yes once internet conditions in America are better, and hard drives are bigger (because I can't fit my whole gaming collection on my ps3 hard drive, even if it is pretty big), a push to digital might be useful. But really, I feel at the moment what they need to do is raise awareness of digital distribution to the more casual audience, which it seems the PS4 is trying to do. Once internet speeds are fast enough to download a triple A game in roughly the time it takes for me to go to gamestop and back the push will fail. I hate fiddling with disks so I always buy digital when possible anyway but it seems like most people don't care. It took me hours to download Catherine, which to my knowledge isn't even that big of a game. As long as there's a convenience benefit to physical stores, physical stores will have bartering chips that the publishers can not afford to lose.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

You want to stop used game sales? Offer your games through digital purchase......for less. Both initially...and drop the digital sales price every few months as well.

Poof...do that long enough and used game sales will dry up naturally.

Physical copy of a game sells for $60.....Digital for $50.....at launch.

2 months later the Digital copy drops another $10....to $40.

Why sell digital games for $10 less? Do you have a reason to think it takes $10 to make and stock a disk when you're doing it in bulk?

Yeah, gamestop etc won't be pleased by the situation..but the can still make money selling physical copies of games...at least till most people decide there is no reason to buy them anymore.

that's exactly why gamestop would just refuse to stock the game. If you're a triple A and gamestop refuses to stock your game because you made it $5-$10 cheaper on steam you're fucked

Gamestop refuses to sell the game... so it's sold exclusively on digital... where every sale counts as big bucks for them instead of small bucks.

Still better..

If Microsoft (or any of the big 3 for that matter) had full digital distrubution for all their games, and incrementally lowered their prices until they were about 25 dollars after 3 or so years, I would be hard pressed to buy another used game again. I'd never have to step into another Gamestop (or EB games as I'm canadian). I can't be the only person that thinks this way, and even a "new" sale of 25 dollars is better for them then a used sale of 40 dollars.

The only reason for used games at that point would be to reduce the huge drain on bandwidth. Could you imagine purchasing 3 full 20-30gb games digitally? Maybe for you that's nothing. Maybe for you that's nothing, but for me (and a LOT of other people), that would be ridiculous. That would hit my bandwidth cap just like that. So maybe I would still buy used games just because of that.. but I'd certainly be more inclined to play ball with them if they would play ball back, but they won't, so I'll just trade games with my friends, and buy used until the shangrila of unlimited internet bandwidth and respectable tiered pricing comes to consoles.

The publishers still get the vast majority of a new sale. 2 DD sales for $25 could well be worth less than 1 physical for $60. Also, gamestop could EASILY compete with $25 DD on 3 year old titles. they could just make it $10-$20.

That only applies to Microsoft games. Microsoft wouldn't dare force activision and EA to drop their prices.

EB games isn't about being Canadian. Gamestop bought out EB Games years ago, you're still going to gamestop they just never bothered to change the sign. My "EB" was called "EB" despite the buyout for years. Yes once internet conditions in America are better, and hard drives are bigger (because I can't fit my whole gaming collection on my ps3 hard drive, even if it is pretty big), a push to digital might be useful. But really, I feel at the moment what they need to do is raise awareness of digital distribution to the more casual audience, which it seems the PS4 is trying to do. Once internet speeds are fast enough to download a triple A game in roughly the time it takes for me to go to gamestop and back the push will fail. I hate fiddling with disks so I always buy digital when possible anyway but it seems like most people don't care. It took me hours to download Catherine, which to my knowledge isn't even that big of a game. As long as there's a convenience benefit to physical stores, physical stores will have bartering chips that the publishers can not afford to lose.

If physical stores go bust because everything goes digital what makes you think that prices WOULD drop? at all? what makes you think we wouldn't be paying $100 new for a game in digital format with the publisher just pocketing bigger profits?

PC has competition, not just from physical stores but from other digital distribution companies. Where is the competition going to be for Xbone games? Microsoft isn't going to let steam set up a store on the Xbox, hell they had to be forced by the courts to let NETSCAPE, a FREE browser compete against IE and I don't trust Sony much more than that.

You can hate EB as much as you like, personally I hated Game because they believed that they could ignore the laws on consumer rights but competition is good. EB has JB and Gametraders it directly competes against not to mention ToysRUs and Big W and Dicksmith and Kmart and Target and even the digital distribution platforms and this keeps the prices down. Abolish these and all you will do is hand a monopoly to Microsoft and Sony and watch the prices skyrocket and the service plummet, and good luck enforcing your consumer rights. Apple shows just how hard that is going to be in a digital only world. The same laws apply to them as any other business but they believe that they can get around this by stating "all sales are final", it doesn't but the problem is where do you complain? who do you ring to get your money back? Same goes for EA and origin. EA DO have a phone number for technical problems with there products in Australia, its a 1900 number charged at $2.50 PER MINUTE. Compare that to Dicksmith (picked at random) where in 2 seconds I found a 1300 number to ring if I had an issue with there online sales or EB which is also a 13 number or I could walk into ANY of there stores and say "I have a problem with x give me my money back", no run around, no searching, no paying more than the product cost me in phone bills while sitting on hold

 

[nevarran]

Is that what they called "game sharing"?
For fuck's sake, MS, get real!

captcha: change yourself

 

[mike1921]

You want to stop used game sales? Offer your games through digital purchase......for less. Both initially...and drop the digital sales price every few months as well.

Poof...do that long enough and used game sales will dry up naturally.

Physical copy of a game sells for $60.....Digital for $50.....at launch.

2 months later the Digital copy drops another $10....to $40.

Why sell digital games for $10 less? Do you have a reason to think it takes $10 to make and stock a disk when you're doing it in bulk?

Yeah, gamestop etc won't be pleased by the situation..but the can still make money selling physical copies of games...at least till most people decide there is no reason to buy them anymore.

that's exactly why gamestop would just refuse to stock the game. If you're a triple A and gamestop refuses to stock your game because you made it $5-$10 cheaper on steam you're fucked

Gamestop refuses to sell the game... so it's sold exclusively on digital... where every sale counts as big bucks for them instead of small bucks.

Still better..

If Microsoft (or any of the big 3 for that matter) had full digital distrubution for all their games, and incrementally lowered their prices until they were about 25 dollars after 3 or so years, I would be hard pressed to buy another used game again. I'd never have to step into another Gamestop (or EB games as I'm canadian). I can't be the only person that thinks this way, and even a "new" sale of 25 dollars is better for them then a used sale of 40 dollars.

The only reason for used games at that point would be to reduce the huge drain on bandwidth. Could you imagine purchasing 3 full 20-30gb games digitally? Maybe for you that's nothing. Maybe for you that's nothing, but for me (and a LOT of other people), that would be ridiculous. That would hit my bandwidth cap just like that. So maybe I would still buy used games just because of that.. but I'd certainly be more inclined to play ball with them if they would play ball back, but they won't, so I'll just trade games with my friends, and buy used until the shangrila of unlimited internet bandwidth and respectable tiered pricing comes to consoles.

The publishers still get the vast majority of a new sale. 2 DD sales for $25 could well be worth less than 1 physical for $60. Also, gamestop could EASILY compete with $25 DD on 3 year old titles. they could just make it $10-$20.

That only applies to Microsoft games. Microsoft wouldn't dare force activision and EA to drop their prices.

EB games isn't about being Canadian. Gamestop bought out EB Games years ago, you're still going to gamestop they just never bothered to change the sign. My "EB" was called "EB" despite the buyout for years. Yes once internet conditions in America are better, and hard drives are bigger (because I can't fit my whole gaming collection on my ps3 hard drive, even if it is pretty big), a push to digital might be useful. But really, I feel at the moment what they need to do is raise awareness of digital distribution to the more casual audience, which it seems the PS4 is trying to do. Once internet speeds are fast enough to download a triple A game in roughly the time it takes for me to go to gamestop and back the push will fail. I hate fiddling with disks so I always buy digital when possible anyway but it seems like most people don't care. It took me hours to download Catherine, which to my knowledge isn't even that big of a game. As long as there's a convenience benefit to physical stores, physical stores will have bartering chips that the publishers can not afford to lose.

If physical stores go bust because everything goes digital what makes you think that prices WOULD drop? at all? what makes you think we wouldn't be paying $100 new for a game in digital format with the publisher just pocketing bigger profits?

PC has competition, not just from physical stores but from other digital distribution companies. Where is the competition going to be for Xbone games? Microsoft isn't going to let steam set up a store on the Xbox, hell they had to be forced by the courts to let NETSCAPE, a FREE browser compete against IE and I don't trust Sony much more than that.

You can hate EB as much as you like, personally I hated Game because they believed that they could ignore the laws on consumer rights but competition is good. EB has JB and Gametraders it directly competes against not to mention ToysRUs and Big W and Dicksmith and Kmart and Target and even the digital distribution platforms and this keeps the prices down. Abolish these and all you will do is hand a monopoly to Microsoft and Sony and watch the prices skyrocket and the service plummet, and good luck enforcing your consumer rights. Apple shows just how hard that is going to be in a digital only world. The same laws apply to them as any other business but they believe that they can get around this by stating "all sales are final", it doesn't but the problem is where do you complain? who do you ring to get your money back? Same goes for EA and origin. EA DO have a phone number for technical problems with there products in Australia, its a 1900 number charged at $2.50 PER MINUTE. Compare that to Dicksmith (picked at random) where in 2 seconds I found a 1300 number to ring if I had an issue with there online sales or EB which is also a 13 number or I could walk into ANY of there stores and say "I have a problem with x give me my money back", no run around, no searching, no paying more than the product cost me in phone bills while sitting on hold

Higher prices =/= bigger profits. Volume is just as important as price point, the only game that could possibly charge $100 new and make a greater profit is CoD and even then I doubt it.

Competition keeps prices in line but demand is an even more powerful force. The very most I see them doing this generation is a jump to $70 a game to meet inflation for the last 8 or so years since the last gen and even then I doubt it. No one wants most games enough to pay more than $60 for them. Fuck, most people don't want most games enough to pay $60 if you ask me. People want tiered pricing, and they want it for their own good as consumers but lower prices for most games is in the interest of the publishers.

To put it simply, I don't think we'll be paying $100 for the games digitally because I think the publishers don't get a massive boner when they think of bankruptcy. Just like steam pushes for those big sales not because they like the PR (although that helps) or because of the goodness in Gabe's heart (although the fact they're a private corporation makes that more likely) but because it makes them a ton of money.

Wait, you have a store called Dicksmith? Why did no one tell me that?

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-161499-WatchDogs-PlayStation-4

$98 for watch dogs, not the collectors edition, just the regular edition

The last of us, $98
https://ebgames.com.au/ps3-156572-The-Last-Of-Us-PlayStation-3

At JB $89
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/games/

Dicksmith $74.98
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/playstation-3/the-last-of-us-ps3-dsau-yg10063

Wow thats actually quite cheep, didn't expect that.

on psn $89

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-au/games/the-last-of-us/cid=EP9000-NPEA00435_00-THELASTOFUSDIG01

So basically I could get it from any of those PHYSICAL stores for $74.98 because guess what? they compeate against each other so I could go into EB and say "Dicksmith is selling it for this" and The guy there will say "yep we can do that"

Good luck doing that with a one store monopoly online

Now these companies (Microsoft, Sony, Adobe etc) were summoned to a senate inquiry to explain why they charge us so much compared to other countries and guess what the response was "because we can". Yes I feel VERY comfortable handing these companies a monopoly on my game sales

 

[mike1921]

https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-161499-WatchDogs-PlayStation-4

$98 for watch dogs, not the collectors edition, just the regular edition

The last of us, $98
https://ebgames.com.au/ps3-156572-The-Last-Of-Us-PlayStation-3

At JB $89
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/games/

Dicksmith $74.98
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/playstation-3/the-last-of-us-ps3-dsau-yg10063

Wow thats actually quite cheep, didn't expect that.

on psn $89

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-au/games/the-last-of-us/cid=EP9000-NPEA00435_00-THELASTOFUSDIG01

So basically I could get it from any of those PHYSICAL stores for $74.98 because guess what? they compeate against each other so I could go into EB and say "Dicksmith is selling it for this" and The guy there will say "yep we can do that"

Good luck doing that with a one store monopoly online

Now these companies (Microsoft, Sony, Adobe etc) were summoned to a senate inquiry to explain why they charge us so much compared to other countries and guess what the response was "because we can". Yes I feel VERY comfortable handing these companies a monopoly on my game sales

Gamestop (EB and gamestop are the same thing) actually price matches In Australia?

May I ask why the fuck aussies pay that price? Not why they charge it i mean, I mean why anyone actually goes out to the store and pays $90 for a game? I don't fucking understand it, when most games look like they aren't even close to be worth the $60 pricepoint here in America .

Also, of course there are problems that we need to address before we go full digital and drop support for physical games. I mean no way in fuck i"m paying $60 to get Ni No Kuni on PSN so I'm getting it from amazon or ebay. but we're still a good number of years away from internet speeds being anywhere near good enough to make that viable, there has to be a solution to this, we probably have decades to figure it out, but this is for certain: Digital has inherent advantages and it will take over, just as it pretty much has on PC already.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-161499-WatchDogs-PlayStation-4

$98 for watch dogs, not the collectors edition, just the regular edition

The last of us, $98
https://ebgames.com.au/ps3-156572-The-Last-Of-Us-PlayStation-3

At JB $89
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/games/

Dicksmith $74.98
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/playstation-3/the-last-of-us-ps3-dsau-yg10063

Wow thats actually quite cheep, didn't expect that.

on psn $89

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-au/games/the-last-of-us/cid=EP9000-NPEA00435_00-THELASTOFUSDIG01

So basically I could get it from any of those PHYSICAL stores for $74.98 because guess what? they compeate against each other so I could go into EB and say "Dicksmith is selling it for this" and The guy there will say "yep we can do that"

Good luck doing that with a one store monopoly online

Now these companies (Microsoft, Sony, Adobe etc) were summoned to a senate inquiry to explain why they charge us so much compared to other countries and guess what the response was "because we can". Yes I feel VERY comfortable handing these companies a monopoly on my game sales

Gamestop (EB and gamestop are the same thing) actually price matches In Australia?

May I ask why the fuck aussies pay that price? Not why they charge it i mean, I mean why anyone actually goes out to the store and pays $90 for a game? I don't fucking understand it, when most games look like they aren't even close to be worth the $60 pricepoint here in America .

Also, of course there are problems that we need to address before we go full digital and drop support for physical games. I mean no way in fuck i"m paying $60 to get Ni No Kuni on PSN so I'm getting it from amazon or ebay. but we're still a good number of years away from internet speeds being anywhere near good enough to make that viable, there has to be a solution to this, we probably have decades to figure it out, but this is for certain: Digital has inherent advantages and it will take over, just as it pretty much has on PC already.

Yes most of the stores including EB price match

And why do we pay it? because we don't have a choice. Why do you think Australians especially were so pissed off about the Used game market? the other announcement which slipped under everyone's radar which specifically effects Australians is the fact that they were going to region lock the Xbone, Australia and NZ are there own region which means we get screwed on price all the time

 

[mike1921]

https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-161499-WatchDogs-PlayStation-4

$98 for watch dogs, not the collectors edition, just the regular edition

The last of us, $98
https://ebgames.com.au/ps3-156572-The-Last-Of-Us-PlayStation-3

At JB $89
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/games/

Dicksmith $74.98
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/playstation-3/the-last-of-us-ps3-dsau-yg10063

Wow thats actually quite cheep, didn't expect that.

on psn $89

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-au/games/the-last-of-us/cid=EP9000-NPEA00435_00-THELASTOFUSDIG01

So basically I could get it from any of those PHYSICAL stores for $74.98 because guess what? they compeate against each other so I could go into EB and say "Dicksmith is selling it for this" and The guy there will say "yep we can do that"

Good luck doing that with a one store monopoly online

Now these companies (Microsoft, Sony, Adobe etc) were summoned to a senate inquiry to explain why they charge us so much compared to other countries and guess what the response was "because we can". Yes I feel VERY comfortable handing these companies a monopoly on my game sales

Gamestop (EB and gamestop are the same thing) actually price matches In Australia?

May I ask why the fuck aussies pay that price? Not why they charge it i mean, I mean why anyone actually goes out to the store and pays $90 for a game? I don't fucking understand it, when most games look like they aren't even close to be worth the $60 pricepoint here in America .

Also, of course there are problems that we need to address before we go full digital and drop support for physical games. I mean no way in fuck i"m paying $60 to get Ni No Kuni on PSN so I'm getting it from amazon or ebay. but we're still a good number of years away from internet speeds being anywhere near good enough to make that viable, there has to be a solution to this, we probably have decades to figure it out, but this is for certain: Digital has inherent advantages and it will take over, just as it pretty much has on PC already.

Yes most of the stores including EB price match

And why do we pay it? because we don't have a choice. Why do you think Australians especially were so pissed off about the Used game market? the other announcement which slipped under everyone's radar which specifically effects Australians is the fact that they were going to region lock the Xbone, Australia and NZ are there own region which means we get screwed on price all the time

Yes you have a choice. You have the choice of not buying the games, I have no idea how anyone could on a regular basis think a game is worth $90. Just the same as if it costed $900. Like, there are very few games I'm willing to pay $60 for let alone $90.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Yes you have a choice. You have the choice of not buying the games, I have no idea how anyone could on a regular basis think a game is worth $90. Just the same as if it costed $900. Like, there are very few games I'm willing to pay $60 for let alone $90.

Yep coming from a viewpoint that games don't cost more than $60 I'm sure you wouldn't pay more. There is only one problem with that, EVERY game in Australia costs that much, a CHEEP game might be $80. So what your effectively saying is that if games cost more than $60 you wouldn't buy ANY games? I doubt that, you would just grit your teeth and buy them because that's what they cost and so that's what you have to pay and there isn't a dam thing you can do about it. Once again WHY DO YOU THINK AUSTRALIANS WERE SO ANGRY ABOUT USED GAMES BEING BANNED??

Seriously there were lots of us who believed that Gametraders and EB should have refused to stock the Xbone if thats the attitude they were going to take, it wouldn't actually have cost them that much money because the mark up isn't at the retail end, its not taxes, its all coming from the publishers and they are the ones making the money. I have herd that EB makes $5 per $400 console and not much more on the games themselves. They survive based on the used game market and we use the used games to actually buy games at a reasonable price. And for those who DO buy new when they are released a lot of them can only afford the $100 per game because they are going to play them for a week or so and then trade them back in