Poll: How Do You Justify Music Piracy?

JochemDude

New member
Nov 23, 2010
1,242
0
0
This is always such a though moral thing, I mean I work in the music industry and yes we notice it a lot. You see all that music that we hate, it's mainly because that is a safe way of making money. There is no room for larger artist to innovate anymore it's just too risky. Only small independent labels can do that.

I do think piracy is to blame for it, but it takes effort from both sides to change that. Prices need to go down if we ever want to see that changing, if people find it expensive they will try to find other ways to get it and I can't blame them for that. Before it can change, even 'cheap' people should find it cheap enough to go out and buy it. Which is the main problem, because now it's free for them. Customer support people, customer support those people can possibly be motivated if they get a special treatment with it. I once tried that with a little dutch band who had just made a album, I suggested to put a nice flag with the band logo in the CD package. I think if people could get like small and Non-digital goodies with it, a lot more people would actually go out and buy it.
 

Lionsfan

I miss my old avatar
Jan 29, 2010
2,842
0
0
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Another music piracy thread, another bunch of myths to be busted. I don't mean to sound high-minded, but as a musician, some of the blatant mistruths here are painful to read.

Firstly, to everyone saying musicians make no money off record sales: not true. Musicians take a smaller chunk of royalties than record labels, true, but they still usually get a royalty rate of around 20%. And while that doesn't sound like a lot, remember that to a band taking a year off touring to write and record a new album, that royalty cheque is probably the only income they're going to get for the entire year. Worse, by pirating the album you're not sending any kind of message to the record labels about their unfair take of the record profits, and how they should cut bands a bigger take. You're simply being a skin-flint.

Secondly, this idea that bands can just go on tour and magically make back all their money lost to piracy: not true. For while many musicians do make the majority of their income from gigging and merch, this mindset shows a terrible ignorance of how tours and gigs actually work:

1) Gigging does not come cheap for a band. Indeed, gigs are becoming more of a money sink than ever. Bands still on the club circuit are running more and more into promoters who charge a 'pay to play' scheme. I'll say that again, bands just starting out are being charged upfront by promoters to be able to play club and bar gigs. Here in the UK, this can run up to anything like £250 a pop. That's a lot of moolah, and if people do nothing but download illegally, a lot of bands simply aren't going to be able to stump up the cash to be able to play gigs.

What about larger bands? It's not that much better. While bands on a more mainstream level can actually make money from live shows, they also require a lot more money to set up. Your average band going out on an average tour will have to pay for musical gear, the road crew, lighting rig, a sound engineer, and transport to get everyone and everything around. That all has to be paid for, and record sales help pay for that. If everyone pirates their music in the future, then many 'mainstream' bands will suddenly find themselves unable to finance the tour their fans are clamouring for. You can't hire a roadcrew, soundsystem and transport if you've got no money to pay for those things.

2) Touring and gigging is inexorably tied to record sales. Venues don't look at number of albums torrented when discussing whether to get a band in. The Foo Fighters didn't play at Wembley Stadium because they have a few dozen million hits on The Pirate Bay. Mogwai didn't headline Brixton Academy because they'd knocked up enough downloads in Limewire. Album and song sales tie directly into the venues bands are able to play, and thusly, the amount of income they can make from live shows. If an album sells well, a band will play bigger venues and larger crowds. If an album sells poorly, they'll play smaller venues and smaller crowds. It really isn't advanced economics.

3) Touring takes up a lot of time. When a band goes on tour, they're essentially giving themselves up to a life on the road for anywhere between six months and two years. And while that may sound romantic, try and imagine yourself spending half a year without seeing your family, sleeping either on the bus or in a hotel room every single night, spending hours sitting in a bus every single day, playing the same tunes night after night. While being a musicians certainly has its high points, the touring lifestyle also has a lot of negatives surrounding it too, and to suggest that bands and artists should just chain themselves to it if they want to make any money is a little insulting.

Touring and live shows can be a lot of fun for musicians, and they can make a lot of money from it. But it shouldn't be forced to become a musician's sole source of income just because a bunch of people decided they couldn't be arsed to pay for their music.

Thirdly, this idea that rock musicians are all rich, and therefore shouldn't *****: untrue in the extreme! Yes, I know, we all imagine rockstars to have houses on the Sunset Strip, and have super-model pornstar girlfriends, and snort the purest cocaine off the dashboards of their Ferrari's. Guess what? All those super succesful rockstars you've seen on TV, all the Gene Simmonses, the Jimmy Pages, the Jon Bon Jovis... they're the fucking minority. Saying all rockstars are rich is like saying Bill Gates is loaded, so therefore all programmers must be loaded. Those musicians with the mansions and swimming pools are the very lucky few who managed to get millions of fans to support them. Most other musicians are still slogging away, struggling to break even. Hell, more and more musicians are having to take up second jobs just so they don;t go broke doing what they love. And that's a sorry fucking state to be in...

Fourthly, a lot of people seem to think musicians should adopt the Radiohead approach of letting fans 'pay what they want' for albums. Just no! The reason why Radiohead managed to pull that off is because they were already a multi-million selling band who could finance their own publicity campaign, and already had the fanbase to guarantee a success. Very few bands are in such a privileged position. Despite all that, the majority of people who downloaded the 'In Rainbows' album contributed a grand total of $0 towards it. If musicians are supposed to survive off the milk of human kindness, then pardon me if that teat doen't look all that nourishing.

But my objection goes further than that: there's another term for allowing people to pay whatever they want for your services. It's called begging. According to many people, the job of being a musician should now entail slogging away to create something unique and great, then begging at the door step for whatever the 'fans' can dain to throw their way. I fail to see what is so unique about music that it is the only artform where this is seriously suggested as an economic model. Would you go into an art-store and demand to walk away with whatever painting you like, for whatever price you can be arsed to pay? Would you demand that Wal-Mart or HMV operate a donation box system for purchasing the latest films? Forget what fairytale notions your art or drama teacher may have put in your head: all art is some kind of product. Not everyone may see it as that, and many artists may not emphasise it, but the fact remains that any album is a product created by the effort of an artist. And as such, you have no right to barge in, help yourself to it, then decide to pay however little you feel like towards the artist for their effort. That's not how trade works. The artist creates something, a price is set, if you want it, you pay the asking price. If you don't like it, then don't buy the frackin' record. Just because you think it may be a little expensive, don't try and paint yourself as the injured party, and that you're in some mysterious way in the right for pirating it.

Look, at the end of the day, if you're going to pirate, then pirate. I've got a few pirated albums on my iTunes library myself. But don't, in any way, try to justify piracy than anything other than what it is: selfishness. You're not 'sticking it to the man', you're not 'sending a message'... you're simply taking something for nothing. If you can see that and accept that, then more power to you. But if you're going to labour under the delusion that piracy is somehow 'helping' the music industry, then someone needs to slap the shit out of you.
/thread


Seriously, it sickens me whenever I hear people try and justify Piracy as an alternative to buying. The ONLY time I make exceptions is if it's impossible to get the album anymore, but your post pretty much summed up every point I've ever thought about at random times
 

blaqknoise

New member
Feb 27, 2010
437
0
0
A lot of bands get noticed more because of piracy. Music can easily be passed around and the bands fame grows.
 

Veylon

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,626
0
0
The only music I've been pirating is video game music, and that was back in the early 00's. I mean, where the heck else could you get the soundtrack for Megaman 2 or Ogre Battle?
 

googleback

New member
Apr 15, 2009
516
0
0
Piracy can be abseloutley devastating, and it can also make little difference. I hate it personally, ESPECIALLY in the music industry. its very easy to do with music which is sad. it's created a very factory line kind of mentality within it, kind of like video games, people take less risks now...
 

JasonKaotic

New member
Mar 18, 2009
1,444
0
0
As I've seen someone say somewhere before (it may have been here), stealing would mean the owner loses what you're taking. Piracy just gives you a free copy of it.
Consider me here. I'm 16. I don't have a job, therefore I don't get income (well, I get £5 a week from pocket money, but that isn't as much normal people). So there isn't really much chance of me being able to buy much music at all. Therefore, I download it.
Artists shouldn't care so much about slight money losses anyway (or big ones). Music is art. It isn't considered wrong at all to save a picture of the Mona Lisa from Google Images onto your computer, so why is it so bad to download music?
 

googleback

New member
Apr 15, 2009
516
0
0
JasonKaotic said:
As I've seen someone say somewhere before (it may have been here), stealing would mean the owner loses what you're taking. Piracy just gives you a free copy of it.
Consider me here. I'm 16. I don't have a job, therefore I don't get income (well, I get £5 a week from pocket money, but that isn't as much normal people). So there isn't really much chance of me being able to buy much music at all. Therefore, I download it.
Artists shouldn't care so much about slight money losses anyway (or big ones). Music is art. It isn't illegal to save a picture of the Mona Lisa from Google Images onto your computer, so why is it illegal to download music?
because then everyone would do it and they'd make next to nothing. everyone would have to switch to donation based sales, some might make quite a bit but most would just fade out and never get anywhere.
piracy is most common amoung people of your age but as you get older i think you'll want to pay for your music (particularly when you're working because there'll be no excuse then) most people I know did. even those that downloaded all their music before, pay for it now.

of course don't see it at all as justified, just not as bad as someone who can afford it.
 

JasonKaotic

New member
Mar 18, 2009
1,444
0
0
googleback said:
because then everyone would do it and they'd make next to nothing. everyone would have to switch to donation based sales, some might make quite a bit but most would just fade out and never get anywhere.
But like I said, if you saved a picture of a painting onto your computer that would be perfectly fine, when it's really no different to downloading a song.

I understand why some people are against piracy, there's just more to it.
 

loc978

New member
Sep 18, 2010
4,900
0
0
While I agree that there's no real justification for music piracy, I'd also like to point out that "suing the pants off of the pirates" is a wee bit overboard. Fine 'em, convict 'em of a fairly serious misdemeanor, sure... but most of these cases just go overboard [http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_324000.html].
 

inquisiti0n

New member
Feb 25, 2011
103
0
0
Because musicians are twats.

/notsrs


But if someone can legally watch the music video or song on youtube for free, how is it any different from downloading the song?

From a technical perspective, when you stream a video, the content still goes onto your harddrive (into the temp folder), so really, what's the difference between that and just downloading the song while cutting out the middleman (the web browser)?
 

Dyme

New member
Nov 18, 2009
498
0
0
Pirated music is free advertising. If people like what they hear they are more likely to buy it. I would never buy music that I don't know already.
 

googleback

New member
Apr 15, 2009
516
0
0
JasonKaotic said:
googleback said:
because then everyone would do it and they'd make next to nothing. everyone would have to switch to donation based sales, some might make quite a bit but most would just fade out and never get anywhere.
But like I said, if you saved a picture of a painting onto your computer that would be perfectly fine, when it's really no different to downloading a song.

I understand why some people are against piracy, there's just more to it.
Not particularly, bad example, Who's going to earn money from the mona lisa? not the artist, he's been dead for centuries. The plain and simple fact is you AREN'T paying for it. The people who's livelihoods it is to bring that to you for a fee aren't getting their fair pay. So no there isn't more to it.

People act like there's such a grey area between stealing and piracy. Not to the artist there isn't. not now the internet is the main forum of sale. so what if you didn't steal the CD? (cd's are SO cheap to replace) You pay for the music. that's what you want and what they provide. for a price that you decide not to pay. That is stealing, straight from the source.
 

googleback

New member
Apr 15, 2009
516
0
0
i11m4t1c said:
Because musicians are twats.

/notsrs


But if someone can legally watch the music video or song on youtube for free, how is it any different from downloading the song?

From a technical perspective, when you stream a video, the content still goes onto your harddrive (into the temp folder), so really, what's the difference between that and just downloading the song while cutting out the middleman (the web browser)?
you purchase the right to ownership which you do not have with an illegal download, you also don't have a hard copy that you can take anywhere when you watch it on You tube.

That's like radio on demand, not an actual copy of the track.
 

unoleian

New member
Jul 2, 2008
1,332
0
0
Sharing or downloading a few songs, sure, whatever. Giving friends a handful of tracks or an album to have them check out an artist, sure. Awesome. Go for it.

Downloading an artist's entire discography and never giving them one cent for it? Never see them live or bootleg every show you can? So bullshit. That's pretty fucked up.

That's my stance on it.

A little here and there is good for word of mouth and spreading good tunes around. Taking everything in sight, on the other hand, is quite a terrible way to behave.
 

flying mong

New member
Jun 29, 2010
31
0
0
I learnt to download when i was 12 its sad but now i look back i dont think "shit i shouldnt of done that" i think "hold on i was able to do that with less then 2 weeks experience on the internet no wonder so much music is illegally downloaded"