Poll: How do you personally feel about the term cisgender?

[Beliyal]

The world isn't like tumblr when everyone has to list every single thing about themselves.

As someone who actually uses tumblr (since 2010), I can safely say that no one has to list every single thing about themselves. The reason why many do is the fact that trans and other minority communities are plentiful on tumblr and it's a fairly safe assumption that if you open a random blog, the user will be a part of the LGBT community or anything but white. Simply, in the context of that site, using those labels is very much justified. But again, no one is required to do so (I don't).

Either way, I'm with you when it comes to "cisgender is being used as an insult" thing. Where exactly do people see this? I see tumblr being thrown around as the source, but I've been on tumblr five years and have never seen the fabled "die cis scum" being used. Did someone use it once or twice in a serious way? Probably. During my time on the internet, I've seen tons of shit, including people who believe the Earth is flat, but I do think people like that (including the ones who yell "die cis scum") are an inconsequential minority that no one would ever had any contacts with if someone didn't dig up their shit and spread it around for laughs.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Just like we seldom see people identifying themselves as cisgender, since it is likewise assumed to be the default. And while on the topic, very few people really identify themselves as hetrosexual; they will simply say straight or normal, or more likely, say nothing since it is assumed to be the default. I haven't heard of anyone taking issue with the word hetrosexual.

The only time the word cisgender comes up is when discussing transgenderism, so I don't see why people have to be so bothered by someone somewhere on the internet using the correct terminology in an uncommon circumstance.

The world isn't like tumblr when everyone has to list every single thing about themselves.

You're right, it isn't.

The words are redundant or superfluous outside of statistical analysis or specific scenarios.

The attempt to employ them in regular vernacular is both foolhardy and pointless. Better to accept that being trans is abnormal and not be offended when someone describes themselves/someone else as a "normal guy/girl" when that individual is non-homosexual, non-trans, non-other stuff.

I agree that there is very little purpose in getting the majority of people to use the word, since few will ever find them self in a situation where it is needed.
What I don't understand is why so many people in this thread aren't simply apathetic towards the word, but seem to go out of their way to be annoyed by it's existence. Actually, if I'll be honest, I sort of get it a bit. While I'm perfectly fine with cisgender as a word, there are plenty of extremely specific and rather silly sounding genders that others identify with these days, and I'm still rather unsure how I should feel about them.

Demi-boy/girl would be one that is as absurd as it sounds. Pangendered is another one that seems rather silly, along with, well ... most of the genders on this site.
http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AllPages

 

[Abomination]

Being trans is not categorized as a psychological illness, it's not even a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria is classified as a medical disorder by the DSM-V and the mental disorders associated with it are symptomatic the horrible way we're treated in society.

Medical, mental, psychological - the key word is "disorder".

Many other people with disorders are treated horribly too - but you didn't make this thread to discuss that, I thought you were making this thread to discuss how people felt about the word "cis"?

Lets see do people with other disorders systematically suffer the following: Rampant emotional abuse, denial of their identities even by so called allies(L&G groups specifically), abuse from a young age by their families almost as the rule from a young age, legal discrimination across the board, are medically discriminated against by both health care providers and medical insurance agencies, get beaten for who they are on a regular basis, get raped because of who they are by bigots, get murdered at disturbingly high rates compared to other groups, have among the highest if not highest instances of suicidal thoughts, attempted suicides, and successful suicide attempts? No... Then stop complaining.

I thought you were making this thread to discuss how people felt about the word "cis"?

The bad things that happen to trans people isn't because of the common vernacular.

I don't think anyone in this thread is responsible for those issues suffered. It's not a talking point or a reason why people dislike the word cis or see it as redundant.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

The world isn't like tumblr when everyone has to list every single thing about themselves.

As someone who actually uses tumblr (since 2010), I can safely say that no one has to list every single thing about themselves. The reason why many do is the fact that trans and other minority communities are plentiful on tumblr and it's a fairly safe assumption that if you open a random blog, the user will be a part of the LGBT community or anything but white. Simply, in the context of that site, using those labels is very much justified. But again, no one is required to do so (I don't).

Either way, I'm with you when it comes to "cisgender is being used as an insult" thing. Where exactly do people see this? I see tumblr being thrown around as the source, but I've been on tumblr five years and have never seen the fabled "die cis scum" being used. Did someone use it once or twice in a serious way? Probably. During my time on the internet, I've seen tons of shit, including people who believe the Earth is flat, but I do think people like that (including the ones who yell "die cis scum") are an inconsequential minority that no one would ever had any contacts with if someone didn't dig up their shit and spread it around for laughs.

I didn't mean people actually have to list all their details, I meant that there seem to be plenty of people who feel the need to list all their details, resulting in rather eccentric "about me" sections.

As for the cisgender insult thing. To be honest, I think it has more to do with the rest of what people have to say while using the word "cisgender" rather than the word itself being used as an insult. Kind of in the same way straight white male has become associated with phrases like "check your privilege".

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Being trans is not categorized as a psychological illness, it's not even a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria is classified as a medical disorder by the DSM-V and the mental disorders associated with it are symptomatic the horrible way we're treated in society.

Medical, mental, psychological - the key word is "disorder".

Many other people with disorders are treated horribly too - but you didn't make this thread to discuss that, I thought you were making this thread to discuss how people felt about the word "cis"?

Lets see do people with other disorders systematically suffer the following: Rampant emotional abuse, denial of their identities even by so called allies(L&G groups specifically), abuse from a young age by their families almost as the rule from a young age, legal discrimination across the board, are medically discriminated against by both health care providers and medical insurance agencies, get beaten for who they are on a regular basis, get raped because of who they are by bigots, get murdered at disturbingly high rates compared to other groups, have among the highest if not highest instances of suicidal thoughts, attempted suicides, and successful suicide attempts? No... Then stop complaining.

I thought you were making this thread to discuss how people felt about the word "cis"?

The bad things that happen to trans people isn't because of the common vernacular.

I don't think anyone in this thread is responsible for those issues suffered. It's not a talking point or a reason why people dislike the word cis or see it as redundant.

When you get to a point of contention and then site other groups being abused I'm going to point out that it's not nearly as common as for trans people. Simple as that. Because as it stands I can't think of any group that gets treated as badly as we do on a systemic level, so using a comparison of abuse is a flawed one. As is calling trans a mental illness. You wanna incite a bad reaction from trans people, use the arguments you used, because that's where I started getting very irritated.

 

[Silvanus]

Better to accept that being trans is abnormal and not be offended when someone describes themselves/someone else as a "normal guy/girl" when that individual is non-homosexual, non-trans, non-other stuff.

As is quite obvious, "abnormal" has negative connotations when it's applied to people. Should we just pretend they aren't there?

 

[DerangedHobo]

Go ahead and use it for pragmatic reason, my only problem is when people start using their sexuality or gender as some sort of defining trait to take pride in. That's just plain fucking stupid.

 

[Abomination]

When you get to a point of contention and then site other groups being abused I'm going to point out that it's not nearly as common as for trans people. Simple as that. Because as it stands I can't think of any group that gets treated as badly as we do on a systemic level, so using a comparison of abuse is a flawed one. As is calling trans a mental illness. You wanna incite a bad reaction from trans people, use the arguments you used, because that's where I started getting very irritated.

Your irritation is neither my concern, nor has any baring on the topic being discussed.

Being trans is a disorder, there are many other disorders that do not require a term to identify a non-suffering (both directly or socially indirectly) individual.

Being upset about this comparison doesn't make it any less valid.

There is no pressure to use a specific word to identify as a non-Jew in light of the Holocaust, there is no pressure to use a specific word to identify as a non-negro in light of apartheid.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Medical, mental, psychological - the key word is "disorder".

Which is why Gender Identity Disorder is being phased out of the DSM-V. Given we know the pathologizing of trans people is inaccurate in most cases of transition. And good riddance ... though the idea of disorder or dysphoric states are usually kept as a means for most nations in the West to have it seen as viable a condition worthy of treatment.

Whilst this is more or less good will on behalf of the medical community, the reason why the qualifier 'disorder' was dropped was because people, like you, were using it incorrectly to state a mental illness. It also, unfairly, cast a net over a whole lot of people who did not feel distressed, and did not suffer in any clinical fashion, from their presenting divergent gender identity expressions.

I'm not even referring to SJW's here. I'm mainly referring to the trans people. The OP himself has gotten deeply offended by me using the word abnormal to describe him in the past. We're not going on about SJW's and being called retarded or lame, that's actually go absolute fuck all with what I'm talking about. You're the one who brought in the us vs them anti-SJW and SJW nonsense. Which wasn't my point at all. The people aren't offended with being called cis.

Her ... it's not hard. You'll forgive me, but half of the language in this you're not exactly trying to be congenial to begin with. If I called you 'fuckface' everytime I saw you, you'd probably have a problem with that. It's not hard, if only for the sake of civil conversation, to not continually misgender people.

As for the word 'cis' ... it's a useful word. Me and my friends use it in spoken conversation. But for the same reason I don't call myself trans at the drop of the hat, I don't call (directly) people 'cis' or 'cisgender' ... it's just a really easy way to communicate a designation or group. There's no malice in there ... not only that, the word doesn't even come up all that often. It's more of a trans lingua franca thing ... really useful in specific crowds. Whether you like that or not, I could hardly care less ... I'm certainly not going to use 'normal' or 'abnormal' because THEY sound fucking stupid and communicate very little.

 

[Abomination]

Better to accept that being trans is abnormal and not be offended when someone describes themselves/someone else as a "normal guy/girl" when that individual is non-homosexual, non-trans, non-other stuff.

As is quite obvious, "abnormal" has negative connotations when it's applied to people. Should we just pretend they aren't there?

Disabled, retarded, handicapped, lame, impaired, crippled, special... abnormal.

It's an ever evolving arms race of terminology constantly being replaced by a new generation in an effort to not offended by the stark reality of the situation: these people are different, abnormal, unlike the average.

The sooner one accepts abnormality as... a normal occurrence, and stops drawing parallels towards negative connotations the sooner one can be empowered to live a (relatively) normal life.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

When you get to a point of contention and then site other groups being abused I'm going to point out that it's not nearly as common as for trans people. Simple as that. Because as it stands I can't think of any group that gets treated as badly as we do on a systemic level, so using a comparison of abuse is a flawed one. As is calling trans a mental illness. You wanna incite a bad reaction from trans people, use the arguments you used, because that's where I started getting very irritated.

Your irritation is neither my concern, nor has any baring on the topic being discussed.

Being trans is a disorder, there are many other disorders that do not require a term to identify a non-suffering (both directly or socially indirectly) individual.

Being upset about this comparison doesn't make it any less valid.

There is no pressure to use a specific word to identify as a non-Jew in light of the Holocaust, there is no pressure to use a specific word to identify as a non-negro in light of apartheid.

Once again non-sequitur straw men an argument does not make. With rampant and on going abuse I'm going to take exception with such things.

The reason the word exists if you must have it addressed is when addressing specific trans related topics. Why? Because normal implies trans is abnormal, and that has terrible connotations, especially amongst a group with low self esteem. Straight doesn't fit because gender identity and sexuality are separate things. Non-trans works but has fostered massively exclusionary mentalities. Where as cisgender is simply the opposite of transgender, it's a clean fresh clinical/scientific/academic term for the most part, except for a minority of outrage mongers who use it on twitter and tumblr.

 

[Beliyal]

I didn't mean people actually have to list all their details, I meant that there seem to be plenty of people with rather eccentric "about me" sections.

That's true, I see it somewhat often, but not as much as people tend to exaggerate. Like, if I don't go out to intentionally find someone from the "eccentric" community, the odds of seeing it are fairly low.

To be honest, I think it has more to do with the rest of what people have to say while using the word "cisgender" rather than the word itself being used as an insult. Kind of in the same way straight white male has become associated with phrases like "check your privilege".

Yeah, I agree. I mean, even in the phrase "die cis scum", I kinda think the problematic parts of that phrase are words "die" and "scum". Cisgender on its own has no negative connotations and doesn't even have a long history of use. But of course, if you attach words like "die" or "scum" to it, yeah, the entire phrase is insulting. Just like if someone says "look at this ugly bald guy" or "look at this stupid short person", you can infer from those statements that someone is using those descriptors as insults. Otherwise, "bald" and "short" and "cisgender" are just regular descriptions.

Captcha: let it be. Let it be, people.

 

[Abomination]

Why? Because normal implies trans is abnormal, and that has terrible connotations, especially amongst a group with low self esteem.

Self-esteem issues or not, trans are abnormal.

They're a significant minority and to classify their condition as anything other than a disorder is to ignore the suffering their predicament can cause.

There are few other ailments where an individual feels the need to modify their body on a surgical/hormonal level to feel comfortable with themselves emotionally and/or socially.

And that's an elephant in the room that's not going anywhere, no matter how uncomfortable it may make people feel.

 

[Silvanus]

Disabled, retarded, handicapped, lame, impaired, crippled, special... abnormal.

It's an ever evolving arms race of terminology constantly being replaced by a new generation in an effort to not offended by the stark reality of the situation: these people are different, abnormal, unlike the average.

The sooner one accepts abnormality as... a normal occurrence, and stops drawing parallels towards negative connotations the sooner one can be empowered to live a (relatively) normal life.

Uhrm, no, that's not why people stopped using those terms. Many of those terms were repeatedly used as slurs, and today have undeniable negative connotations.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

What's so bad about having a mental disorder?

Apart from it being an incorrect diagnosis for the most part? Plenty of cultures around the planet have divergent gender identitiies and expressions. A lot of them are welcomed or celebrated, or otherwise seen as belonging to a normative state of being.

As cultures evolve, the relations of people evolve in different ways. Which is why they dropped homosexuality from the DSM as well, and in much the same way they are now dropping GID.

People like you disgust me.

I can do this too.

Cut the personal jabs. We're having a discussion here.

Telling someone they're wrong is not having a jab. If you like, I can show you some fairly nice discourses showing lists of reasons why they are dropping the word 'disorder'.

 

[Abomination]

Disabled, retarded, handicapped, lame, impaired, crippled, special... abnormal.

It's an ever evolving arms race of terminology constantly being replaced by a new generation in an effort to not offended by the stark reality of the situation: these people are different, abnormal, unlike the average.

The sooner one accepts abnormality as... a normal occurrence, and stops drawing parallels towards negative connotations the sooner one can be empowered to live a (relatively) normal life.

Uhrm, no, that's not why people stopped using those terms. Many of those terms were repeatedly used as slurs, and today have undeniable negative connotations.

Uhrm, yes, that's why those terms were employed. Because the PREVIOUS term was adopted as a slur... so a new one was conceived that became common vernacular and quickly became a slur again.

"Handicapped" is a great one. I believe that is what the bathrooms and parking spots were called a good 10 or so years ago. I think the appropriate term now is "disabled" because "handi" was adopted as a slur for someone who is incapable. A sort of ironic term "He's pretty handi with that microphone" to imply someone speaks like they talk like an idiot. Was clever, in a sadistic way.

"Special" was another one that was adopted to make those with issues not feel as offended... and it rightly came off as coddling.

Point being, any term used to describe someone with disadvantages in physical, emotional, or mental faculties will quickly find itself being used as a slur due to the very nature of what it describes.

What's the correct term for someone who suffers from dwarfism now? Is it dwarf? Short person? Midget? Runt? Pygmy?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Self-esteem issues or not, trans are abnormal.

They're a significant minority and to classify their condition as anything other than a disorder is to ignore the suffering their predicament can cause.

There are few other ailments where an individual feels the need to modify their body on a surgical/hormonal level to feel comfortable with themselves emotionally and/or socially.

And that's an elephant in the room that's not going anywhere, no matter how uncomfortable it may make people feel.

Self-esteem issues are part of what drive so many of ours to suicide. So some sensitivity is helpful with a group that is constantly damaged from outside outside sources, for no good reason. Besides that the brain is a chemical computer cis and trans are both chemistry terms too, in fact cis bled over to transgender topics from chemistry.

Also It's not to feel comfortable socially or emotionally only, it's also just to feel comfortable in our own bodies.

 

[Abomination]

What's so bad about having a mental disorder?

Apart from it being an incorrect diagnosis for the most part? Plenty of cultures around the planet have divergent gender identitiies and expressions. A lot of them are welcomed or celebrated, or otherwise seen as belonging to a normative state of being.

As cultures evolve, the relations of people evolve in different ways. Which is why they dropped homosexuality from the DSM as well, and in much the same way they are now dropping GID.

Yes, apart from it - hypothetically - being an incorrect diagnosis.

Telling someone they're wrong is not having a jab. If you like, I can show you some fairly nice discourses showing lists of reasons why they are dropping the word 'disorder'.

Dropping =/= dropped. There is contention, not consensus.

That someone feels they're born in the wrong body is not a disorder (something out of order) of some kind is laughable.

 

[Abomination]

Self-esteem issues are part of what drive so many of ours to suicide. So some sensitivity is helpful with a group that is constantly damaged from outside outside sources, for no good reason.

I do not coddle, sorry.

Besides that the brain is a chemical computer cis and trans are both chemistry terms too, in fact cis bled over to transgender topics from chemistry.

So it's a chemical imbalance/disorder?

Also It's not to feel comfortable socially or emotionally only, it's also just to feel comfortable in our own bodies.

Okay, THREE reasons to feel compelled to surgically/chemically modify one's body... the reasons for feeling compelled to do so isn't the issue. It's the fact that one feels compelled to do so that's the issue.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I do not coddle, sorry.

So it's a chemical imbalance/disorder?

Okay, THREE reasons to feel compelled to surgically/chemically modify one's body... the reasons for feeling compelled to do so isn't the issue. It's the fact that one feels compelled to do so that's the issue.

So no reason is good enough to be polite to people who may be suffering?

More like the fact that the brain is a chemical computer gives a chemical term credence.

Many people modify their bodies for a whole lot less of a reason.