I've watched her old videos so far the only one I ever really liked and agreed with was her Lego one. watched two of her videogame ones and while she has some valid points the way she goes about them and the strawman antics she gets into in those pushed me away and so I stopped.
Poll: How many of Anita Sarkeesian's videos have you actually watched? (be honest!)
- Thread starter elwood612
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Zero since I why would I want to watch her video only to get pissed off from it? I'm pretty sure it won't get better for me if I watched anymore of it (I'm operating under the whole "if you don't like it, why carry on reading, watching or listenning to it???").
I've watched her first 2 tropes videos to completion, then after I watched around the first 5 minutes of the rest. I don't have any beef with her (I do think she is milking some of the controversy for attention, but that is beside the point), I just can't stand watching her misuse video clips for the wrong purpose. I do think she makes some valid correlations, but she often uses clips from the wrong games to make those points (Example being Double Dragon, in the same video where she talks about how women can't save themselves, she shows a clip of a woman absolutely destroying the final boss in DD). I don't think she is wrong (it isn't like she is making extreme opinionated points), she just doesn't know how to argue her points, nor does she know how to engage her audience.
The videos just feel like they were intended as some form of journalism class in high school, rather than a professional production with hundreds of thousands of dollars in budget. I think this is the same issue many people have (though some just hate on her because they are afraid she is trying to take away their video games). Those are usually the people who, like me, take the middle ground in these discussions. We don't disagree with her, nor do we particularly like her videos. We just wish people would stop giving her fuel to power her controversy machine.
The videos just feel like they were intended as some form of journalism class in high school, rather than a professional production with hundreds of thousands of dollars in budget. I think this is the same issue many people have (though some just hate on her because they are afraid she is trying to take away their video games). Those are usually the people who, like me, take the middle ground in these discussions. We don't disagree with her, nor do we particularly like her videos. We just wish people would stop giving her fuel to power her controversy machine.
I've seen all her TVW videos plus several of her older videos. Since we're being honest, though, I find her TVWiG videos to be too long and probably wouldn't watch them if not for the people raging and very literally making stuff up about her.
I find her style acceptable for shorter videos. Acceptable, not great.
I don't want to weigh you down, since you "have no fucks to give" or whatever, but one of the big recent claims about her focuses on her use of Fallout NV as a demonstration of women as background characters. Critics say that she ignores the fact that NV allows you to take male prostitutes as well. This would be pretty damning, were it true. Thing is, she actually shows a clearly labeled clip of one of the male prostitutes saying he's yours for a few caps in the video as she acknowledges that they exist in a few games. She also (paraphrasing) points out that this doesn't change the overall trend, which is a correct statement. There's a similar claim about violence against men/rewards for killing men in games being ignored, but she addresses that and shows footage of it.
There are dozens of such claims after each new video. Claims that come from either people who have not watched her videos or from people who are deliberately reframing the argument.
I guess the tl;dr is this: look, if you don't care, that's fine. I respect that. But can you please not sound off on the matter if you don't care enough to inform yourself?
I find her style acceptable for shorter videos. Acceptable, not great.
Yeah, you probably shouldn't do that. I keep asking for evidence of specific complaints, and one of the easiest ways to shut up the anti-Sarkeesian crowd is to do just that. Or, at least, get them to start ignoring you.tippy2k2 said:
I don't want to weigh you down, since you "have no fucks to give" or whatever, but one of the big recent claims about her focuses on her use of Fallout NV as a demonstration of women as background characters. Critics say that she ignores the fact that NV allows you to take male prostitutes as well. This would be pretty damning, were it true. Thing is, she actually shows a clearly labeled clip of one of the male prostitutes saying he's yours for a few caps in the video as she acknowledges that they exist in a few games. She also (paraphrasing) points out that this doesn't change the overall trend, which is a correct statement. There's a similar claim about violence against men/rewards for killing men in games being ignored, but she addresses that and shows footage of it.
There are dozens of such claims after each new video. Claims that come from either people who have not watched her videos or from people who are deliberately reframing the argument.
I guess the tl;dr is this: look, if you don't care, that's fine. I respect that. But can you please not sound off on the matter if you don't care enough to inform yourself?
That's 100% fair and that's why I stay out of those threads. I don't know enough about her and I don't care enough to look into it. I basically tacked on my opinion (which, as I stated, is based only on tiny snippets of other people complaining but that opinion of mine is about as weak as you could get because again, zero cares) because I thought I should probably have more than my mini-complaint about how the poll is going to be skewed.Zachary Amaranth said:
Also, I tacked a bit in that last paragraph to reiterate how little people should care of my opinion on this matter
I've only watched a few of Thunderf00t's rants on her video's (and others), so I took the second option.
Every single one of Video Game Tropes VS Women and several others. I don't agree with them, but harassment she received is real. And if I can make some company cough up a cent, it's a good day
Also, I would be really be disgusting person if I criticized her and didn't watch the material.
Also, I would be really be disgusting person if I criticized her and didn't watch the material.
Unfortunately, that's not what actually happens. I mean, if you have to retcon the game to make an argument against Anita, I have a feeling the problem isn't her.barbzilla said:
I have not watched any of her videos. I also feel inclined to point out that I am not critiquing her for anything, because as stated: I haven't seen her videos.
I'm essentially the completely neutral guy from Futurama.
I doubt she deserved the harrasment though.
I'm essentially the completely neutral guy from Futurama.
I doubt she deserved the harrasment though.
Zero.
I hear she's talking about videogames, but doesn't actually play games herself. So what do I care?
I hear she's talking about videogames, but doesn't actually play games herself. So what do I care?
Well, I only played Neon, so I can't say one way or the other for the original, however the game was not Retconned for that particular reason. To top that off there were many other instances of misused videos. I'm sorry I can't be arsed to go watch her videos again to give you a complete list, but I'm sure someone else who has more give a fuck in their system would be happy to oblige.Zachary Amaranth said:
Honestly I don't think you read my post entirely. As I said before, I don't take any particular issue with her videos, I just didn't like the misused clips. The points she made were valid (even though she failed to propose any form of solution), she just didn't do a good enough job with research (nor did it seem like she made use of the $200,000 budget she had).
EDIT:
I did happen to think of another one. Deadlight: She was making a point of talking about a woman's clothing being ripped off, however it had absolutely nothing to do with her sex and everything to do with the fact that she was being detained, along with many other men, women, and children. However, as I said before, I don't disagree with her that there is sexism in gaming, and I think it would be nice to pull away from some of these tired tropes. It was just the failure to properly research the information she was using and the lack of engagement that put me off from her videos.
I've seen 2-3 videos before she decided she wanted to be a "gamer".
I found her delivery flat and boring and her content very one-sided.
She seems to think she's smarter than she is (not that she's a moron but Mensa won't be calling her anytime soon).
I've posted some criticisms on one of her videos (I was being as polite as possible) and she deleted it. Now I think she doesn't even allow comments which I find weird when you're posting highly opinionated content.
I found her delivery flat and boring and her content very one-sided.
She seems to think she's smarter than she is (not that she's a moron but Mensa won't be calling her anytime soon).
I've posted some criticisms on one of her videos (I was being as polite as possible) and she deleted it. Now I think she doesn't even allow comments which I find weird when you're posting highly opinionated content.
I've seen the first two of her Tropes vs. Women series and one of her earlier videos (the about the advertizing of Bayonetta).
I didn't find many of her points to be very enlightening since I'm in a Women's College and I learn about this stuff every other semester. Once she talks about games as systems of interaction and how these change how we view women tropes, I'll be interested enough to pick them up again.
For the record, I really didn't like the Bayonetta video. That was...pretty awful.
I didn't find many of her points to be very enlightening since I'm in a Women's College and I learn about this stuff every other semester. Once she talks about games as systems of interaction and how these change how we view women tropes, I'll be interested enough to pick them up again.
For the record, I really didn't like the Bayonetta video. That was...pretty awful.
Watched a few of her videos through completely.
I think she is really bad at making them and especially the examples she uses are really confusing. I mean, about 2/3 of her examples are questionable (such as her claim that Hitman encourages and rewards violence against women when it actually actively punishes you), which is really strange because almost always there are better examples available.
I think she tends to use extremely high profile examples even if they don't fit well in an attempt to make her videos more accessible. But because they don't fit well she ends up stretching the truth constantly and misrepresenting what is actually occurring in the game world. It usually doesn't get to the point of blatant falsehoods like with the Hitman criticism, but she tends to play loose and fast with the truth. I really don't like that.
I think she is really bad at making them and especially the examples she uses are really confusing. I mean, about 2/3 of her examples are questionable (such as her claim that Hitman encourages and rewards violence against women when it actually actively punishes you), which is really strange because almost always there are better examples available.
I think she tends to use extremely high profile examples even if they don't fit well in an attempt to make her videos more accessible. But because they don't fit well she ends up stretching the truth constantly and misrepresenting what is actually occurring in the game world. It usually doesn't get to the point of blatant falsehoods like with the Hitman criticism, but she tends to play loose and fast with the truth. I really don't like that.
I have watched 2 of her videos. While I agree with her ideas, her examples are often taken out of context and show a lack of understanding of the game itself. For example, she picked Zia from Bastion as an example of a weak female character when in fact, Zia had the most forward thinking ideas and was anything but weak.
Except what you're saying is false, so yes, it was retconned.barbzilla said:
I'm sure most or all of them are similarly rationalised by people less concerned with reality than with complaining about Anita. Hell, I already gave counter examples in the thread of just that sort of thing. My experience is that people are either reciting without watching the videos or lying.
And I'm sorry, but if you can't back up your claims, they're not worth claiming. They're not really worth anything.
I did. I addressed the relevant point. I'm just skeptical when you have to resort to claims that Marian "demolished" the final boss. I've heard it all before. I've watched Thundert00l's videos and listened to people saying "lol, she totally punched him once after he was defeated and helpless! That's empowerment, women! Y U NO EMPOWERED?" but you have to ignore, well, everything about that encounter to make it count. It's the equivalent of a chihuahua peeing on a bully after he got knocked down. The video doesn't disprove her claim or harm her point.
So why make the claim? I could understand it if maybe there was a hidden mode where you played as Marian an got to beat the boss, but what she displayed wasn't out of touch with what she said.
If I said "I have nothing against gamers, but they're all a bunch of sweaty, sexist man-children who can't get laid," would you believe the former part of the sentence? I doubt you would. You would probably think I had something against gamers.
"I have no problem with X, but" is basically the "I'm not a racist, but" argument.