Poll: How many of you have your car's side mirrors set properly?

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Also, wouldn't there still be a blind spot with the youtube guys configuration? or can your peripheral now see the car? Even if your peripheral could see the car, I wouldn't trust it, it is peripheral after all. You should always look out the window to check to see if there is someone beside you. It is just common sense.

It takes a split second glance or two.

If you rear end someone, that just means you were driving too close to them. Maybe don't be in such a rush, and drive safer.

I have my mirrors set up to where the back half of the car is still in my mirror when the car enters my peripheral vision so there aren't any gaps. Peripheral vision is still your fucking vision, why wouldn't you trust it? If there's a big car-looking thing in my peripherals that means there's a fucking car there. I don't have to make out the license plate number to confirm it's a car. I'm a really safe driver with a perfect record. You can drive aggressively and still drive safe. Most drivers are horrible at driving like the people that constantly brake for no reason; if you can't tell you're catching up to the guy in front of you and have to resort to braking to not hit them, then you are horrible at judging distances. I change lanes immediately when I see someone doing that as I have no faith in their driving ability and I would prefer to not be around them. Or this one time I was on the expressway in pouring rain and almost everyone had their hazards on to indicate they were going slower than normal, which I had no problem going slower but because everyone had their hazards on (like idiots), you couldn't tell when someone was going to change lanes because hazards override turn signals.

Yeah, the using wing mirrors to eliminate blind spots is a myth, an extremely dangerous myth at that too.

Please cite your source on mirrors not eliminating blindspots because there's several papers and articles stating you can eliminate blindspots with mirrors as they are specifically engineered to do just that. Ford's chief safety engineer stated that Ford's Blind Spot Information System wouldn't be needed if people properly set their mirrors. I know from over 10 years of using mirrors only that I have no blindspots on my car. I'm pretty sure it would be a statistical impossibility if I do indeed have a blindspot and have not hit anyone in over 10 years along with the very high rate at which I change lanes.

 

[Michel Henzel]

Here, these kinds of things, like mirrors, seat belt, seat, proper looking, etc. gets drilled into you from day 1 on driving lessons. Not getting such simple things right is pretty much grounds for failure on a driving test. Driving tests in the Netherlands are really strict with 60% of people failing the first time.

 

[Glongpre]

Also, wouldn't there still be a blind spot with the youtube guys configuration? or can your peripheral now see the car? Even if your peripheral could see the car, I wouldn't trust it, it is peripheral after all. You should always look out the window to check to see if there is someone beside you. It is just common sense.

It takes a split second glance or two.

If you rear end someone, that just means you were driving too close to them. Maybe don't be in such a rush, and drive safer.

I have my mirrors set up to where the back half of the car is still in my mirror when the car enters my peripheral vision so there aren't any gaps. Peripheral vision is still your fucking vision, why wouldn't you trust it?

Because peripheral is fuzzy. For me, it is not something that I would put my faith in. For me, when I use my peripheral, I am making an educated guess that what I can vaguely tell is there, is in fact what I am thinking is there. But that is just me. Better safe than sorry.

I'm a really safe driver with a perfect record.

Ok, and my grandfather was a heavy smoker and a heavy drinker, and he never had any health issues.

You can drive aggressively and still drive safe.

That is an oxymoron. To drive aggressively is to take risks, and risks by definition are not safe.

Most drivers are horrible at driving like the people that constantly brake for no reason; if you can't tell you're catching up to the guy in front of you and have to resort to braking to not hit them, then you are horrible at judging distances.

Ain't that the truth!

I change lanes immediately when I see someone doing that as I have no faith in their driving ability and I would prefer to not be around them. Or this one time I was on the expressway in pouring rain and almost everyone had their hazards on to indicate they were going slower than normal, which I had no problem going slower but because everyone had their hazards on (like idiots), you couldn't tell when someone was going to change lanes because hazards override turn signals.

haha, yeah that is dumb. No need for hazards in that situation.

 

[Euryalus]

There are still blindspots and weird problems with normal mirrors when you set them that way. I'm a technician for an autoparts supplier that makes and designs the blindzone mirrors and indicators for ford and other companies.

You're right that setting them like fixes common problems though.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Yeah, the using wing mirrors to eliminate blind spots is a myth, an extremely dangerous myth at that too.

Please cite your source on mirrors not eliminating blindspots because there's several papers and articles stating you can eliminate blindspots with mirrors as they are specifically engineered to do just that. Ford's chief safety engineer stated that Ford's Blind Spot Information System wouldn't be needed if people properly set their mirrors. I know from over 10 years of using mirrors only that I have no blindspots on my car. I'm pretty sure it would be a statistical impossibility if I do indeed have a blindspot and have not hit anyone in over 10 years along with the very high rate at which I change lanes.

I know from personal experience in amateur drift and rally racing that there is no such thing as a mirror configuration that eliminates blind spots, in fact, attempting to do so exacerbates the blind spots. This also applies to the experience of professional drift and rally drivers. One of the easiest ways to pass another racer is to stick to the blind-spot of the person you're passing in a turn, because they won't be prepared for the pass.

Wing mirrors are not engineered to, nor are they designed to cover the blind-spot. They're designed to give you a view of adjcent traffic lanes, behind your vehicle. If you're using them to cover the blind spot, you're invariably and in most places illegally cutting off cars when you change lanes. Because a legal lane change almost everywhere is where you can see where the front tires of the vehicle you're passing, in your center rear view mirror. Doing that means you're merging into a lane with at least a full car length between you and the car behind you, in the lane you want to be in.

There is only one kind of mirror that mostly eliminates the blind-spot. Those are convex disc mirrors, that are either placed far enough foreword on the front quarter panels of a vehicle, or the out edge of the wing mirror. They provide a huge field of view alongside your vehicle, generally covering most of the side. Wing mirrors as a safety device are not designed to do this, convex mirrors are. If you're using your wing mirror in the place of a convex mirror. Also misusing wing mirrors in this fashion is against defensive driving, which puts you dangerously close to driving recklessly, because you're relying on everyone else's defensive driving skills.

Now I'm not going google diving to do your research for you, the burden of proof is on you. I know from experience both in my own driving and in the driving of others, that wing mirrors do not make up for checking your blind-spot, no matter how you set them. It's very dangerous to have wing mirrors set in any way that conflicts with them giving you a full view of the adjacent traffic lanes behind your vehicle. They're designed to show you traffic that is approaching, not that has already approached, same as the review mirror. Just because you've been very lucky misusing your wing mirrors, doesn't mean squat, you can find anecdotes for people who have been hit by speeding semi-tucks and managed to escape almost totally unscathed. The fact is, you've developed a habit that is against defensive driving, statistically speaking this puts you in extreme danger. That's beside the fact that no wing mirror can effectively compensate for both the blind-spot generated by mirrors, nor the blind-spot naturally made in the human eye by the optic nerve. A convex mirror can do this job, when properly placed, a wing mirror cannot.

Edit: My dad is a retired school bus driver too, and I've spent 14 years driving and observing drivers in many situations. My dad was specifically taught that the convex mirror is the only mirror that can compensate for the blind spot of a wing mirror, in his Class B commercial driving classes. Those are also the only way to cover the blind spots in long vehicles, like city buses, school buses, single body commercial trucks and vans, and semi-trucks with trailers.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Because peripheral is fuzzy. For me, it is not something that I would put my faith in. For me, when I use my peripheral, I am making an educated guess that what I can vaguely tell is there, is in fact what I am thinking is there. But that is just me. Better safe than sorry.

That is an oxymoron. To drive aggressively is to take risks, and risks by definition are not safe.

You don't need to make out fine details with your peripherals. If I'm just standing in a room and I see someone in my peripherals, I know someone is there even if I can't accurately identify the person. Same thing with cars; I don't need to identify the make and model of the car to know it's there.

I don't take risks when driving. I'm not going to change lanes or turn on a "guess". You can change lanes very often and drive faster than the average person without taking risks. In fact, accident rates go down when speed limits are raised.

I know from personal experience in amateur drift and rally racing that there is no such thing as a mirror configuration that eliminates blind spots, in fact, attempting to do so exacerbates the blind spots. This also applies to the experience of professional drift and rally drivers. One of the easiest ways to pass another racer is to stick to the blind-spot of the person you're passing in a turn, because they won't be prepared for the pass.

Wing mirrors are not engineered to, nor are they designed to cover the blind-spot. They're designed to give you a view of adjcent traffic lanes, behind your vehicle. If you're using them to cover the blind spot, you're invariably and in most places illegally cutting off cars when you change lanes. Because a legal lane change almost everywhere is where you can see where the front tires of the vehicle you're passing, in your center rear view mirror. Doing that means you're merging into a lane with at least a full car length between you and the car behind you, in the lane you want to be in.

There is only one kind of mirror that mostly eliminates the blind-spot. Those are convex disc mirrors, that are either placed far enough foreword on the front quarter panels of a vehicle, or the out edge of the wing mirror. They provide a huge field of view alongside your vehicle, generally covering most of the side. Wing mirrors as a safety device are not designed to do this, convex mirrors are. If you're using your wing mirror in the place of a convex mirror. Also misusing wing mirrors in this fashion is against defensive driving, which puts you dangerously close to driving recklessly, because you're relying on everyone else's defensive driving skills.

Now I'm not going google diving to do your research for you, the burden of proof is on you. I know from experience both in my own driving and in the driving of others, that wing mirrors do not make up for checking your blind-spot, no matter how you set them. It's very dangerous to have wing mirrors set in any way that conflicts with them giving you a full view of the adjacent traffic lanes behind your vehicle. They're designed to show you traffic that is approaching, not that has already approached, same as the review mirror. Just because you've been very lucky misusing your wing mirrors, doesn't mean squat, you can find anecdotes for people who have been hit by speeding semi-tucks and managed to escape almost totally unscathed. The fact is, you've developed a habit that is against defensive driving, statistically speaking this puts you in extreme danger. That's beside the fact that no wing mirror can effectively compensate for both the blind-spot generated by mirrors, nor the blind-spot naturally made in the human eye by the optic nerve. A convex mirror can do this job, when properly placed, a wing mirror cannot.

Edit: My dad is a retired school bus driver too, and I've spent 14 years driving and observing drivers in many situations. My dad was specifically taught that the convex mirror is the only mirror that can compensate for the blind spot of a wing mirror, in his Class B commercial driving classes. Those are also the only way to cover the blind spots in long vehicles, like city buses, school buses, single body commercial trucks and vans, and semi-trucks with trailers.

Racing and driving are very different. Cars will be in different places when racing vs driving on regular roads. I said in my original post that I look on the expressway when changing lanes because I can't see 2 lanes over with the side mirrors as I may be in the left lane changing to the center lane while another guy is in the right lane and also changing to the center lane. You can at least go 3 wide on race tracks so obviously the side mirrors will not cover everything. However, when you just have 2 lanes to worry about, the side mirrors can cover everything.

Your definition of when to safely change lanes is just a recommendation. It is safe to change lanes at anytime as long you don't cause the other driver to brake (and thus cut them off). If you actually did race, you know it's safe to change lanes as long as it's clear. I doubt you did very well racing if you followed such an overly safe rule. I very much doubt you followed the safe driving distance recommendation because that is overly safe as well.

I am a rather defensive driver after looking up said characteristics. I'm always aware of everything going on around me. I'm almost always aware if I can lane change at a moments notice by checking mirrors and traffic every few seconds. Making a split second lane (because you know it's clear) to avoid someone not braking at a red light to turn right, which has happened to me. I'm also very good at anticipating what other drivers are going to do. Good defensive driving is being able to avoid accidents, which I've only be in one my whole life and it was unavoidable (guy on drugs running stops signs and running from the cops).

Ford's chief safety engineer and many other articles say side mirrors are specifically engineered to cover blindspots. What's the point of side mirrors to see adjacent lanes BEHIND you when the rear view already does that? The way I have my mirrors set up is the cars in adjacent lanes can be seen by both my rear view and corresponding side mirrors at the same time, then as the car disappears from the rear view mirror, it is still clear as day in the side mirror all the way up until it reaches my peripheral vision. If the mirrors are properly set, they will also overlap.

Here's a ton of proof:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-adjust-your-mirrors-to-avoid-blind-spots
http://blog.esurance.com/forget-everything-you-know-about-rearview-mirrors/
http://www.driversedguru.com/driving-articles/car-driving-skills/the-bge-mirror-setting-eliminates-blind-spots/
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/are-blind-spots-a-myth/
http://papers.sae.org/950601/

From: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/are-blind-spots-a-myth/

So, what is the point of a system like BLIS [Blind Spot Information System]? In an interview, Steve Kozak, Ford's chief safety engineer, acknowledged that side mirrors can be set to eliminate the blind zone. But most drivers don't adjust their mirrors that way so BLIS is a valuable safety aid, he said.

"If we could train everyone in the United States to do it that way, then I think we would probably be a lot better and we wouldn't need a system like this," he said.

And now the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Qizx]

Mate you do you, don't look over your shoulder when merging or driving. But please stay out of Boston because for the love of god you will be destroyed. Even if theoretically putting your mirrors eliminates all stationary blind spots a car can move very quickly into a bad position. There is NEVER a reason not to look over your shoulder, unless you physically can't. There are days when my neck is extremely stiff and looking over my shoulder is hard, and I am always very worried when driving like that.

 

[Creator002]

Doing a head check is law in Victoria, Australia, so I do it without even thinking. I also don't have my mirrors set properly, but that's because it's not my car and I don't drive much.
That being said, I have to have the seat all the way back to comfortably use the car (long legs), so I get a fairly large field of view through the side mirror unless it's rotated ridiculously high or low. It can make it hard to look around though, because directly behind me and to the right in my line of vision is the middle part (I don't know car terms) between the two driver's side doors.

 

[EHKOS]

Both and neither. I set them once in a while but by the end of the day they're fucked again. Gravity can suck a dick.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Mate you do you, don't look over your shoulder when merging or driving. But please stay out of Boston because for the love of god you will be destroyed. Even if theoretically putting your mirrors eliminates all stationary blind spots a car can move very quickly into a bad position. There is NEVER a reason not to look over your shoulder, unless you physically can't. There are days when my neck is extremely stiff and looking over my shoulder is hard, and I am always very worried when driving like that.

I drive in Chicago, I'd do fine in Boston. Unless someone is doing like 3x the speed limit, nobody is going to quickly move into a bad position that I don't notice. Long ago I used to get almost into accidents by turning and looking while not seeing the guy in front of me braking. That doesn't happen with your mirrors properly set.

 

[stroopwafel]

Most drivers are horrible at driving like the people that constantly brake for no reason; if you can't tell you're catching up to the guy in front of you and have to resort to braking to not hit them, then you are horrible at judging distances. I change lanes immediately when I see someone doing that as I have no faith in their driving ability and I would prefer to not be around them.

Driving in the U.S. is a fair bit easier(big lanes, wide open space) than driving in Europe(espescially in crowded areas where I live ie. coastal area of Netherlands). Lanes are tight and incredibly dense with traffic with lots of speed differences that add to the problem. Cars make unexpected maneuvers and move into your blind spot quickly and you can definitely 'miss' them if relying solely on your mirrors.

People braking to catch up on the car in front of you isn't necessarily indicative of being 'horrible at judging distances' either. Rather, if you need to take an exit on the freeway and you need to change lanes and the driver in front of you is driving incredibly slow then you have no choice but to brake and adjust your speed. People driving too slow on the freeway is the problem here as they complicate changing lanes in a safe manner.

btw 15 years of driving history here with pretty much a perfect driving record *knocks wood*.

 

[Qizx]

Mate you do you, don't look over your shoulder when merging or driving. But please stay out of Boston because for the love of god you will be destroyed. Even if theoretically putting your mirrors eliminates all stationary blind spots a car can move very quickly into a bad position. There is NEVER a reason not to look over your shoulder, unless you physically can't. There are days when my neck is extremely stiff and looking over my shoulder is hard, and I am always very worried when driving like that.

I drive in Chicago, I'd do fine in Boston. Unless someone is doing like 3x the speed limit, nobody is going to quickly move into a bad position that I don't notice. Long ago I used to get almost into accidents by turning and looking while not seeing the guy in front of me braking. That doesn't happen with your mirrors properly set.

Driven in both, Chicago is easier in my opinion. Traffic is still a ***** there but least your roads make sense.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Wouldn't it be easy to check this? Sit in the driver's seat, don't turn your head, have someone walk around the car spiraling outwards (or in a horseshoe pattern if we assume the driver can see when they are in front of them), see if you can always see them?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

People braking to catch up on the car in front of you isn't necessarily indicative of being 'horrible at judging distances' either. Rather, if you need to take an exit on the freeway and you need to change lanes and the driver in front of you is driving incredibly slow then you have no choice but to brake and adjust your speed. People driving too slow on the freeway is the problem here as they complicate changing lanes in a safe manner.

btw 15 years of driving history here with pretty much a perfect driving record *knocks wood*.

I'm talking about a guy staying in the same lane and braking every 10 seconds or so when they guy in front of him is not braking. Lots of people say go 40 when the guy in front of them is going 35, they brake and accelerate back up to 40 to brake again, and they keep doing it. I rarely brake at all outside stoplights and stop signs obviously. If I'm going faster than the guy in front of me, I'm either going to go around him or just lay off the gas and coast so I don't need to brake.

Wouldn't it be easy to check this? Sit in the driver's seat, don't turn your head, have someone walk around the car spiraling outwards (or in a horseshoe pattern if we assume the driver can see when they are in front of them), see if you can always see them?

You can test your mirrors really well when stopped at stoplights, which is where I fine tune my mirrors when I do adjust them.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

My, didn't this one get heated suddenly?

Meh, I have my mirrors set and I check them every month or so to be safe. I always shoulder check on lane changes anyway so my bases are covered. You can't have a blind spot when you actually look both through your mirror and look over your shoulder quickly to confirm.

 

[Strazdas]

I drive a pretty old car and it was built before side mirrors got all fancy and got those anti-blindspot curved sides that allow you to see a panoramic view. So my mirrors tend to be set where one side barely shows the vehicle to cover the largest amount of the road possible. That still leaves blindspots, but the blindspot is much smaller than the "Wrong" in the video you posted.

I'm talking about a guy staying in the same lane and braking every 10 seconds or so when they guy in front of him is not braking. Lots of people say go 40 when the guy in front of them is going 35, they brake and accelerate back up to 40 to brake again, and they keep doing it. I rarely brake at all outside stoplights and stop signs obviously. If I'm going faster than the guy in front of me, I'm either going to go around him or just lay off the gas and coast so I don't need to brake.

Then just go at 37. Most cars dont have automatic speed controls yet and manual throttling can be hard to sustain same speed in uneven terrain if the driver is not experienced. It takes a while before you get the reflext to auto accelerate/decelerate depending on slope to maintain speed.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'm talking about a guy staying in the same lane and braking every 10 seconds or so when they guy in front of him is not braking. Lots of people say go 40 when the guy in front of them is going 35, they brake and accelerate back up to 40 to brake again, and they keep doing it. I rarely brake at all outside stoplights and stop signs obviously. If I'm going faster than the guy in front of me, I'm either going to go around him or just lay off the gas and coast so I don't need to brake.

Then just go at 37. Most cars dont have automatic speed controls yet and manual throttling can be hard to sustain same speed in uneven terrain if the driver is not experienced. It takes a while before you get the reflext to auto accelerate/decelerate depending on slope to maintain speed.

It's just annoying following someone always braking. When the guy in front of me brakes, I look to see what's going on from a simple turn to a full backed-up situation where everyone is basically coming to a full stop. I'm not asking anyone to drive at a perfect consistent speed (I certainly don't), but if you're gaining on the guy in front of you, you should notice in time to where you just lay off the gas for a bit vs having to resort to actually braking. Again, I realize you sorta get lost in your speed here and there from various distractions and have to brake to slow your speed. However, constantly doing it just means your either very distracted or just horrible at judging distances. The vast majority of the time when I do change into another lane just due to someone braking for no reason, the other lane flows much better and I end up passing the guy rather shortly.