Poll: How powerful would you like Force users to be in the upcoming Star Wars movies?

DefunctTheory

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
AccursedTheory said:
I may be in a minority, but I do think that ditching the expanded universe was a good call on Disney's behalf. I get the feeling that they'd ditch the prequels if they could as well. The power creep is one of those reasons.
Cutting the EU was absolutely necessary. Lucas Arts threw the doors open and let everyone play in the sandbox, and while that's a nice thing to do on a personal level, its a mess when it comes to canon. Too many people brought cats with them, and that sandbox got completely overrun with cat shit. For every interesting story there was 2 boring ones, for every good idea 7 bad ones. It was an unrecoverable train wreck that made any sort of uniformed push in the story completely impossible without tripping over the convoluted canon.

Disney's a lot of things, but they do understand how important a tight story is, and their business with Marvel has taught them how to manage a large universe. The New EU stuff does have some variable quality (Most of its good, all of its serviceable), but at least it all fits together.
 

OneCatch

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
OneCatch said:
I always took that to be Yoda talking bullshit to try and keep Luke on the white jedi path by evading the issue of raw power entirely. Clearly size does matter when it comes to force abilities, or everyone would be casually throwing planets around.
Ah. Another case of "point of view." That would explain a few things. Honestly, I just attribute it to being a cool line to say without thinking about it too much. In other words, I don't think Lucas was contemplating the implications. This isn't supposed to be the most intellectual series ever.
Oh absolutely. I think I'm actually in the minority view among EU aficionados!
Secondhand Revenant said:
Oh you're missing the most powerful of the game stuff! Devouring all the life on a planet much?! Of course it had its downside on Nihilus. But then they just had to try and one up everything in SWTOR...

Not that I minded Nihilus because it had downsides, and Darth Scion's immortality was cool. Probably a matter of different things feeling alright in a game medium that would seem absurd in movies.
And tbh Nihilus himself pales next to the Sith Emperor and a few others, and that's forgetting the ancient sith like Saddow and Kresh and so on, who seem to have had less raw power, but have been almost absurdly knowledgeable about the force, and able to taint and corrupt for thousands upon thousands of years, even indirectly. Even most of the powerful shenanigans that later heroes and villains get up to is using worn out leftovers from that era.
And that's without even going near the really ridiculous stuff, like Abaloth and the Celestials.

I think all of that absurdly OP stuff works quite well in the ancient pre-jedi and pre-republic eras where everything is pretty much 'heroic epic' rather than 'history' or 'present day'. But probably best not to go too far in the films and to at least loosely match the originals.
 

Evonisia

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Well the only force users right now are people who are just discovering the force, Luke, Luke's apprentices and any Jedi who are still alive and scattered from Order 66.

They obviously won't show us any Order 66 survivors, but if they showed up I'd be content with the prequel powers. As for the rest? Well the sky's the limit I suppose. Why are the First Order so afraid of them when they aren't all that powerful? I think "Force Unleashed" powers might be necessary to show us why.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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OneCatch said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
Oh you're missing the most powerful of the game stuff! Devouring all the life on a planet much?! Of course it had its downside on Nihilus. But then they just had to try and one up everything in SWTOR...

Not that I minded Nihilus because it had downsides, and Darth Scion's immortality was cool. Probably a matter of different things feeling alright in a game medium that would seem absurd in movies.
And tbh Nihilus himself pales next to the Sith Emperor and a few others, and that's forgetting the ancient sith like Saddow and Kresh and so on, who seem to have had less raw power, but have been almost absurdly knowledgeable about the force, and able to taint and corrupt for thousands upon thousands of years, even indirectly. Even most of the powerful shenanigans that later heroes and villains get up to is using worn out leftovers from that era.
And that's without even going near the really ridiculous stuff, like Abaloth and the Celestials.

I think all of that absurdly OP stuff works quite well in the ancient pre-jedi and pre-republic eras where everything is pretty much 'heroic epic' rather than 'history' or 'present day'. But probably best not to go too far in the films and to at least loosely match the originals.
Well I was talking game stuff, I hear about written stuff but don't know it well enough to talk about much.

Sith Emperor's power level makes me cringe kind of. It just feels like it goes too far and tries to one up other powerful characters. Who else kills an entire planet while being a disembodied force spirit just to return with a secret empire... Nihilus I didn't mind because of the clear downsides on himself.

I agree though about the epic heroic stuff to some degree though. Some of it is a bit far for me, but I have a much bigger tolerance for a different feeling and level of power in the old era.
 

Dragonlayer

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In the spirit of completely missing the point of Star Wars, I'd much rather they had the Jedi disappear off-screen for ages to train/meditate/ask why Rey was the best at everything ever and shift focus to a conventional future-war between the Resistance and the glorious First Order.
 

Lionsfan

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OneCatch said:
You can just about imagine a few ancient force users like the old Sith Emperors or the Tythonians being able to throw capital ships around, or even apex-tiers like the Qel-Dromas or ascended-Revan or Palpatine or Luke doing it with some situational advantage like force ghost help or alchemy or force artefacts or whatever. But some angsty apprentice just pulling it off out of the blue? No.
That initial trailer compared to the game was such a let down. I remember being so excited to play as a super bad ass, but nope, just had to make the hero a whiny loser

And the level itself was another huge let down
 

The Madman

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I prefer the Force when it's used in more of a mystical yet subtle sense as opposed to being straight up space magic. Something unseen that works beneath the surface, rarely shown directly yet nevertheless guiding peoples actions and enhancing their already existing skills.

It's why the Emperor in the original Trilogy was so terrifying. Up to him the most dangerous stuff you'd seen was a few things being thrown around and Vader choking some bitches. Intimidating and powerful, yes, but never outright showy. Then the emperor is all 'I don't need a goddamned lighsaber' and shoots lighting out of his fingertips and everyone in the audience collectively went "Oh Shit!" and realized just why with ugly crusty old bastard is leader of the most powerful faction in the galaxy and has even Vader kneeling at his feet.
 

Superlative

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one thing we have to remember though: We have yet to see anyone anyone particularly powerful in the movies.

Thus far we have seen an ex-stormtrooper (may or may not be force sensitive), Rey the completely untrained force messiah, and Kylo Ren, a trained but not graduated sith who managed to keep fighting after taking a direct hit from Chewbacca's bowcaster (a laser/crossbow/howitzer/murder cannon). Luke and Stoke have yet to do anything.


I would be ok seeing some EU level force powers, but only if the also show the cost on the user. in the books in the books they do stuff on the level of pulling star destroyers from the gravity wells of a sun...but not for free. Using massive amounts of force power has an effect kind of like DBZ's kaioken, breaking down the body on a cellular level.

I think Luke should be able to throw around starfighters given the years and years of training, but if he sits down and focuses without caring about his health, he and people on his level should be able to do some physics defying, anime level feats...and then nearly die, having aged 10-20 years in a few minutes.
 

cthulhuspawn82

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I know some people think Luke should be really powerful at this point, being so old and wise by now. But is there a reason to think that would make him much more powerful than Obi-Wan in Episode IV? Is Luke just going to deactivate his light sabre and let Kylo Ren cut him down like a *****? If this beat for beat recreation of the originals continues, that might just be the case.

I also hope there is much more "bad ass" Sith lord character in episodes VIII and IX. I dont really have a problem with Kylo Ren, but is he really going to be our "Darth Vader" for this trilogy? I dont think he is "cool" enough for that. Not that anyone would be.
 

Nismu

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ever since playing kotor 2 i have kinda wanted to see sith or jedi that just goes around force screaming everyone to death . Not sure where in scale that goes.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Nismu said:
ever since playing kotor 2 i have kinda wanted to see sith or jedi that just goes around force screaming everyone to death . Not sure where in scale that goes.
I guess that would be Force Unleashed/TOR level
 

Kyrian007

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I would be happy if there weren't a single force power used or a force sensitive person at all in upcoming movies. That's always been the part of Star Wars I found the least interesting. I like the "wars" part of Star Wars. Give me Rebels vs Empire, give me Rogue Squadron being all Top Gun and Wraith Squadron being all Dirty Dozen. Give me Page's Katarn Commandos tearing their way through Stormies and leaving only explosions (that they don't even look back at) and corpses behind them. The best parts so far have been the battles at Yavin, Hoth, and Endor; and the boring parts are all the lazersword stuff in-between that too many of the video games (with the exception of the amazing X-Wing and Tie Fighter series and the first Dark Forces game) have focused on.

So level of The Force... preferably none.
 

Estarc

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I don't think the movie era is right for powerful Force users. The Jedi and Sith are all but extinct and their teachings have been lost. It feels appropriate that the really powerful Force users and amazing shenanigans stay in an earlier era. I don't see any problem with the people in the movies just being at an average level rather than an "I can crush every bone in your body with a gesture" level.
 

Recusant

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My first thought, coming off the EU, is "tone it down, for goodness' sake!". The series is always at its weakest when Force users (or rather, force use) comes to the forefront; there's a reason it's not "Jedi Wars". A self-regulating (or is it?) order of battle wizards with an unclear and shifting role in government as an element of an interplanetary power struggle is (if done well) interesting. A Starkiller vs Luke Skywalker battle would just be another superhero movie. We're not exactly running short of those at the moment.

One high-power approach that I think could work, however, is to put in absurdly powerful Force users- and actually have them struggle against their limitations. We saw in episode one that two droidekas could essentially lock a pair of Jedi down- but they are, most likely, a weapon specifically made with that purpose in mind. You may be so skilled with Force use that you feel you could take on a mid-level god, but all the time you spent honing those skills means that in the midst of a pitched battle that happens to take place in Ysalamiri breeding grounds, you'd be reduced to slap-fighting your enemies. On a more serious note, Atton Rand from KOTOR 2 brings us another interesting (and probably more realistic) idea: normal non-sensitives who were trained and equipped to hunt and kill Jedi. You get some training to resist mental compulsion techniques, but on the whole, it's simple equipment and preparation against skill and training with the Force (you can deflect blaster bolts, sure, but let's see how you do against a flamethrower)- and there's probably several interesting stories in that alone.

It's hard to hold a balance between making these space wizards feel powerful and threatening and dividing the entire universe into those who're "Force Masters" and those who're "beneath all notice". I hope Disney manages to pull it off.
 

chadachada123

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Bob_McMillan said:
In the TV shows however they go all out. If anyone hasnt watched the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, which is not the TCW we all know and love, I will link it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4

They are just ridiculously powerful in that TV show.
Never have I read a statement so simultaneously confusing and frightening. Clone Wars was fucking great, because it's the only thing so far aside from Episode II to give a feel for larger Star Wars battles. The first part, fighting within the city, was very reminiscent of Battlefront 1 and 2.

An over-the-top romp, to be sure, but brilliant to watch.

OT: I'd really rather that the movies stay a bit more grounded. While I haven't seen TFA yet, finding out that the lead female (apparently) picks up the force in a very short amount of time is worrisome, since both the original trilogy and prequels made it clear that learning to move shit with your brain requires months of training. Hopefully they didn't toss canon to the wind or something.
 

maninahat

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The force is best when it is not shown in the story unless there is a specific reason. It might be a comic relief moment to get someone out of trouble, or a way to indicate how dangerous the villain is, or a Chekhov's gun to help save the day at the climax of the movie. As long as it is serving a purpose and isn't just a gratuitous limit break style move that gets tossed out occasionally in fights, it's usually fine.

In terms of how powerful it is, it was thematically significant in episode IV that the force seemed like a forgettable, little, unimpressive thing, that way we get surprised when we eventually learn it can be damn useful when blowing up a super space ship. After we learn the force is actually capable of, it can afford to be shown as more powerful over the subsequent films. But if it becomes too powerful or too commonplace, it eventually undermines the message of the 4th film, because you end up wondering how such a universally effective tool could go forgotten for an entire generation between the prequels and the original trilogy.
 

Combustion Kevin

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Believably powerful, like, appropriately powerful considering the amount of effort they put into studying and practicing their force powers, not going "god mode" for being super special and/or emotionally distressed.
 

Bob_McMillan

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chadachada123 said:
Bob_McMillan said:
In the TV shows however they go all out. If anyone hasnt watched the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, which is not the TCW we all know and love, I will link it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4

They are just ridiculously powerful in that TV show.
Never have I read a statement so simultaneously confusing and frightening. Clone Wars was fucking great, because it's the only thing so far aside from Episode II to give a feel for larger Star Wars battles. The first part, fighting within the city, was very reminiscent of Battlefront 1 and 2.

An over-the-top romp, to be sure, but brilliant to watch.

OT: I'd really rather that the movies stay a bit more grounded. While I haven't seen TFA yet, finding out that the lead female (apparently) picks up the force in a very short amount of time is worrisome, since both the original trilogy and prequels made it clear that learning to move shit with your brain requires months of training. Hopefully they didn't toss canon to the wind or something.
I was just emphasizing how practically no one remembers the 2003 show. Also, TCW is kinda the universally accepted acronym for the Lucasfilms Clone Wars.

The only reason I like TCW more than the 2003 one is because there is more of it.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Now I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see some impressive shit; like some of the crap that happens in SWTOR would be just fun as hell to watch but there should be some restraint.