Poll: I was bored at work...

[Chairman Miaow]

So, I devised a mechanism for combat in a tabletop RPG, and I'm looking for feedback.

Basically, my fiancée has always had in interest in roleplaying, (Not that kind of roleplaying!) but is quite severely dyslexic, and has a lot of trouble keeping track of all the different stats and dice, so I started devising a system for it that would hopefully use less numbers and dice, so that she could give a game a try without feeling alienated by all the number games.

Spoiler: Part The First; A Simple Overview

Opposed D20 decide the outcome of all challenges. Skill, items and logic give positive and negative modifiers to the dice roll, hereafter referred to as "Advantage" or

"Adv".

For example, a bold Knight is fighting a fierce ogre in a dark cave. As combat is in a dark cave, all characters without low light vision would normally recieve a negative advantage to any rolls requiring vision, for example, attacking or searching. Luckily for our knight, he has a sword enchated with flames that lights the darkness, removing this modifier for all within a certain range and applying a negative modifier to any characters adapted to low-light within a certain range for a certain number of turns until their eyes can adjust.

Spoiler: Part the Second; The complicated bit

Advantage for attacking an enemy is seperated into two categories:
Adv[accuracy]
Adv[damage]

While advantage for resisting attacks is seperated into
Adv[evasion/deflection]
Adv[absorption]

Alongside these statistics are a characters resistances.

Now, back to our Ogre friend. His big flabby body makes him naturally resistant to blunt attacks, such as a mace, giving him "blunt Adv[absorption]/2". Meaning that when Adv[damage] bonuses given by a blunt weapon are divided by 2. For example, if our dear knight was attacking with a Fine steel mace, granting a bonus of Adv[damage]+2, this would only apply a +1 to the knights roll for the purposes of damage due to the /2 from the Ogre's Adv[absorption] vs blunt. He is however, vulnerable
to fire, giving our knight friend an advantage with his Flaming Sword of Cliches. The Ogre's vulnerability to this weapon takes the form of "burn Adv[absorption]*1.5" multiplying any fire damage bonuses by 1.5, always rounding up.

A single roll determines both whether an attack hits, and how much damage it does.

Spoiler: Part C; A Knight's Tale Part 1.

Let's return to our previous example. Our knight is attacking the Ogre with his sword. The big slow Ogre has a natural Adv[evasion/deflection] of -4, and our knight, skilled swordsman that he is, has a bonus earned from training of Adv[accuracy] +4. The knight rolls his attack, scoring a feeble 7, which becomes 11, thanks to his Adv[accuracy] +4, meaning that there is still hope for our valiant knight! but alas! The usually slow ogre has an unusual burst of speed, rolling a 15, and all hope seems lost to our knight, until we remove 4 thanks to the ogre's adv[evasion/deflection] -4, making his roll also 11. To make things move more quickly, in the event of a tie, attacks are assumed to have hit, meaning, our knight lands his blow!

Spoiler: Part F; A knight's Tale Part 3

All that is left is to determine the damage, and to do so, we return to our original rolls, 7 and 15. Tough old brute that he is, our ogre has a natural Adv[absorption] of +4, making his roll a nigh unbeatable 19. Luckily for our knight, he spent a lot of his time grinding in the starting area and begging for loot, and has become a tough fellow himself, with an Adv[damage] of +6 from his strength and an Adv[damage] +5 from his flaming sword, bumping his pathetic 7 up to an 18, which although not bad, is not enough to beat the flabby ogre's 19. But wait, didn't you say that the ogre was weak to fire? Why yes I did me, thanks for paying attention! That's right, due to the ogre's vulnerability of burn Adv[absorption]*1.5, the knight in fact get's 1.5* any damage bonuses from flame attacks, namely his Sword of Cliches. In practical terms, this means the +5 from his sword becomes 8 (5*1.5=7.5 rounded up.) bumping his damage roll up from 18, to a very servicable 21! Now that we have our characters scores, we work out the damage. We do this by simply subtracting the absorption score from the damage score, like this: 21 - 19 = 2. The Ogre takes 2 damage! Not exactly a shining performance from our knight, but it will do. Let's assume for a moment however, that the knight wasn't so tough or didn't have a flaming sword, and his score was 0 or less after having the ogre's score subtracted from it. In this situation, any attack that has hit the target is assumed to always do at least 1 damage, so that things always keep moving and stay exciting.

Obviously, this is quite a complex example because I wanted to include every possible facet of the hitting and damage system so far.

For now, that is the entirety of my system, I have further ideas I could implement, but I don't want to waste my time if people don't think it has potential.

So, please, criticise away! You know you want to, let your cynic out! (Although please do bear in mind that this was written on the back of a reciept at work while doing other things. All I've done is neatened it up.)

 

[DoPo]

I dunno, seems like too much maths and too many rolls. Why not steamline it - have a single roll from the attacker and the defender would still have AC. subtract the two and add the result as a modifier to the damage.

The ogre has AC of 17, the knight rolls 12 - apply (12-17) -5 to the damage (ether a separate roll or not - your choice). If the knight rolls 19, he'll get (19-17) 2 more damage. It also forces you to keep things simple with low numbers which is always a boon in the d20 systems - they tend to just blow the RNG to pieces with bonuses.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Also, please give criticism both on how it would work, and how friendly and accessible it is to somebody not so good with numbers.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I dunno, seems like too much maths and too many rolls. Why not steamline it - have a single roll from the attacker and the defender would still have AC. subtract the two and add the result as a modifier to the damage.

The ogre has AC of 17, the knight rolls 12 - apply (12-17) -5 to the damage (ether a separate roll or not - your choice). If the knight rolls 19, he'll get (19-17) 2 more damage. It also forces you to keep things simple with low numbers which is always a boon in the d20 systems - they tend to just blow the RNG to pieces with bonuses.

So what about bonuses from equipment and things? Just apply them as before, but have the defender with a static score, rather than fluctuate it?

EDIT: also, the reason I originally had it that way was so that when being attacked it doesn't just feel like you are doing nothing, you get to act even if it is just a roll, and it only adds up to 2 rolls each per attack, assuming it hits. It could do with simplifying though, and I am open to alternatives.

 

[DoPo]

Well, yes - keep the bonuses within acceptable boundaries. Because fuck having +20 an a d20 - that's just completely stupid.

Defender can abort their turn to dodge/block or otherwise go full defence. Either give them a static +(something) or make it +Dex modifier (for example).

That was a simple hack of d20, though. You can take a page from nWoD and have the attack roll be (Attacker natural roll)-(defender natural defence)+/-(relevant modifiers) rolled against a static DC - result is damage, so the knight might be rolling a d20+5, the ogre's defence is 7 and the normal DC would be, dunno 14 (I'm just pulling it out of my ass)? This would make the attack roll d20-2 - anything above the DC is the damage. Relative modifiers might be - it's dark (-3) or the sword is flaming (+4). Actually, it's still getting complicated but you get my meaning - it can be steamlined down to a single roll. Or two, if you want damage/defence. Piling modifiers is just tedious in play (well, your mileage may vary).

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Well, yes - keep the bonuses within acceptable boundaries. Because fuck having +20 an a d20 - that's just completely stupid.

Defender can abort their turn to dodge/block or otherwise go full defence. Either give them a static +(something) or make it +Dex modifier (for example).

That was a simple hack of d20, though. You can take a page from nWoD and have the attack roll be (Attacker natural roll)-(defender natural defence)+/-(relevant modifiers) rolled against a static DC - result is damage, so the knight might be rolling a d20+5, the ogre's defence is 7 and the normal DC would be, dunno 14 (I'm just pulling it out of my ass)? This would make the attack roll d20-2 - anything above the DC is the damage. Relative modifiers might be - it's dark (-3) or the sword is flaming (+4). Actually, it's still getting complicated but you get my meaning - it can be steamlined down to a single roll. Or two, if you want damage/defence. Piling modifiers is just tedious in play (well, your mileage may vary).

I was planning the dodge/block thing along with similar idea of spending a turn gearing up for an attack to either gain extra damage or accuracy, although I haven't thought about that much yet.

Ok, so let me see if I have this straight, both the attackers and defenders modifiers are applied to the same roll, then checked against a static DC, then the difference is applied as damage? Would the DC ever change or be modified, or would it only be the roll that gets modified?

 

[DoPo]

I was planning the dodge/block thing along with similar idea of spending a turn gearing up for an attack to either gain extra damage or accuracy, although I haven't thought about that much yet.

Ok, so let me see if I have this straight, both the attackers and defenders modifiers are applied to the same roll, then checked against a static DC, then the difference is applied as damage? Would the DC ever change or be modified, or would it only be the roll that gets modified?

Well yes - that's it - the attacker's hit and damage roll is combined into one along with the defender's defence and the DC is static. Only the roll gets modified with stuff - dark, foggy, blind, powerful weapon, etc. If you have lots of modifiers, they'll boil down to a single number still, so bad visibility (-3) along with a powerful weapon (+4) and uneasy terrain (-2) would net you a -1. Alternatively, go with the result being added to the damage roll again.

The reason is simple - keep things bounded, don't blow the RNG. Or you can switch to a different system. Say, Dark Heresy could be simplified a bit but still it's not that hard - each character has combat stats - Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill. And DH is using a d%, so the stats are in range of 00-99. You roll under the stat to succeed. Say, the knight has Weapon Skill of 40, so he has to roll under that to hit. There are also abilities, so the knight can have Sword Fighting+10 and when he uses a sword, he adds that to WS and has to roll under 50. The defenders can still abort to defend, in which case, they'll roll Agility to dodge, for example. The beauty of the system is that you can give a fair amount of modifiers while still maintaining a grip on the result. Adding +20 or +30 or even +40 is impressive but doesn't destroy it. Damage is still rolled separately but that uses d5s and d10s only.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

snip

Ok, thanks for the help. I like the sound of the Dark Heresy system, it sounds like the large number will make it a lot simpler for her to keep track of as generally the large numbers would allow them to be multiples of 5 and 10.but I want to, if possible, keep all the rolls on just one kind of die, so that there is no confusion over which to use.

 

[DoPo]

snip

Ok, thanks for the help. I like the sound of the Dark Heresy system, it sounds like the large number will make it a lot simpler for her to keep track of as generally the large numbers would allow them to be multiples of 5 and 10.but I want to, if possible, keep all the rolls on just one kind of die, so that there is no confusion over which to use.

Well, d100 is still cool, since it's just 2 d10s and d5 is roll a d10 and divide by 2 (round up). You are still using one kind of die. But I did say you can simplify it - just make all of it d10s. You also don't need other stuff, you can substitute them for something easier, so you don't need to determine hit location (FYI - it's actually really simple - take the attack roll, reverse the numbers and just compare it to a table - if toy rolled 14, you look up 41 and see it's the body), you don't need other things. There are degrees of success (every full 10 under the target number is an additional degree of success, so a roll of 14 from a target of 45 would be 45-14 31) which can speed things up. You can hack it to be simpler and still useful. In fact, you can just take what I said here and just use it as a basis for your system.

Maybe an even better option would be to use a lightweight RPG system. I mean, they are already designed to be easy and small. I have to look it up, but there was a system I simply loved only I can't remember the name...

 

[DoPo]

All right, damn. Apparently I lied. I did remember the name - it's FAST RPG but it's not free any more. The rules used to be up here [http://home.earthlink.net/~falstaffe/FastTalk/Fastlite.htm] and they were so simple and easy - they fit into 4 (web)pages or so. You could have a game going in no time. Not any more, though - you'll have to pay, and I'm not entirely sure if the rules are the same.

There are still stuff like microlite, mini d6 and so on.

-notification-

 

[Chairman Miaow]

All right, damn. Apparently I lied. I did remember the name - it's FAST RPG but it's not free any more. The rules used to be up here [http://home.earthlink.net/~falstaffe/FastTalk/Fastlite.htm] and they were so simple and easy - they fit into 4 (web)pages or so. You could have a game going in no time. Not any more, though - you'll have to pay, and I'm not entirely sure if the rules are the same.

There are still stuff like microlite, mini d6 and so on.

-notification-

Ah well, that is a shame. I do appreciate all the help though. I think I might try and hack apart the Dark heresy rules a bit, maybe get rid of location damage although I would have to learn the details of it before I could. I would like to develop my original idea as well though, I think there would be something very satisfying about completing my own system. Any further suggestions or criticisms would be appreciated, shame nobody else seems interested in helping out though. Thanks a lot for your help though.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

I personally find it hard to remember a lot of modifiers, but give it a shot, as you're in a special circumstance.

 

[DoPo]

Ah well, that is a shame. I do appreciate all the help though. I think I might try and hack apart the Dark heresy rules a bit, maybe get rid of location damage although I would have to learn the details of it before I could. I would like to develop my original idea as well though, I think there would be something very satisfying about completing my own system. Any further suggestions or criticisms would be appreciated, shame nobody else seems interested in helping out though. Thanks a lot for your help though.

Look into Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I think that uses a very similar system but it's more fantasy oriented.

And here's another suggestion, just because I think Ninja Burger is awesome (also: simple). You only roll d6s and you need to roll under a stat to succeed. Difficulty determines how many dice you roll, so for example - a knight with Strength 15 needs to roll under that to succeed on his check. If it's something easy, he may roll 3d6, if it's harder 4d6 or 5d6. You get the idea. Combat is similarly easy - the defender has a set number of Combat Dice (CD - determined by Agility) and the attacker rolls those to try and score under his stat. And that's it. I'll work it into an example - the knight is fighting the ogre. The ogre is slow and not that mobile, so it has 8 Agility, which gives it 2 CD (0-4 is worth 1 CD, 5-9 - 2 CD and another CD for ever 5 more), the knight is young and not a dragonslayer (yet) so he has Strength of 10. He needs to roll 2-10 to hit the ogre. On a hit, each weapon just has static damage.

It's easy like that. That's the system in Ninja Burger 1st edition and in Kobolds Ate My Baby. Also, both are really fun games. The system is very simplistic because it's meant to be easy and fast (you can seriously start a game with newbies in 15 minutes). However, it may be too simplistic, but you can shape it into something a bit more complex t suit your needs.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Ah well, that is a shame. I do appreciate all the help though. I think I might try and hack apart the Dark heresy rules a bit, maybe get rid of location damage although I would have to learn the details of it before I could. I would like to develop my original idea as well though, I think there would be something very satisfying about completing my own system. Any further suggestions or criticisms would be appreciated, shame nobody else seems interested in helping out though. Thanks a lot for your help though.

Look into Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I think that uses a very similar system but it's more fantasy oriented.

And here's another suggestion, just because I think Ninja Burger is awesome (also: simple). You only roll d6s and you need to roll under a stat to succeed. Difficulty determines how many dice you roll, so for example - a knight with Strength 15 needs to roll under that to succeed on his check. If it's something easy, he may roll 3d6, if it's harder 4d6 or 5d6. You get the idea. Combat is similarly easy - the defender has a set number of Combat Dice (CD - determined by Agility) and the attacker rolls those to try and score under his stat. And that's it. I'll work it into an example - the knight is fighting the ogre. The ogre is slow and not that mobile, so it has 8 Agility, which gives it 2 CD (0-4 is worth 1 CD, 5-9 - 2 CD and another CD for ever 5 more), the knight is young and not a dragonslayer (yet) so he has Strength of 10. He needs to roll 2-10 to hit the ogre. On a hit, each weapon just has static damage.

It's easy like that. That's the system in Ninja Burger 1st edition and in Kobolds Ate My Baby. Also, both are really fun games. The system is very simplistic because it's meant to be easy and fast (you can seriously start a game with newbies in 15 minutes). However, it may be too simplistic, but you can shape it into something a bit more complex t suit your needs.

I suppose I am a little hesitant to accept anything too simple, as I want to play something that both I will be able to enjoy and she will be able to follow easily and enjoy. I suppose it may be good to at least start her off on one of the simple ones like you suggested and then move on to a slightly more customisable one after she gets the hang of it or maybe a short campaign. Again, thanks a lot for all your help.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I personally find it hard to remember a lot of modifiers, but give it a shot, as you're in a special circumstance.

Well, hopefully all the modifiers I mention could be easily displayed and collated in a character sheet I would cobble together. Thanks for the support.