Poll: If a Tree falls in a forest...

[almaster88]

Oxford dictionary defines sound as vibrations that travel through the air or some other medium and are sensed by the ear.> a thing that can be heard. Therefore if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, it doesn't make a sound. It just makes a vibration.

So the only way i could be wrong is if the oxford dictionary is wrong but i think it's a reliable source.

Reliable indeed.

Man the Yes's are kicking ass, damn and I thought "no"

 

[SoonerMatt]

It's been proven the egg came first, since whatever reptile a chicken evolved from had to lay its egg for the mutations to manifest in the following generations.

 

[Lukeje]

It's been proven the egg came first, since whatever reptile a chicken evolved from had to lay its egg for the mutations to manifest in the following generations.

...I think you're in the wrong thread...

 

[SoonerMatt]

It's been proven the egg came first, since whatever reptile a chicken evolved from had to lay its egg for the mutations to manifest in the following generations.

...I think you're in the wrong thread...

Could have sworn I saw the chicken v. egg argument here.... I was going to give my 2 cents on the tree but it's been said so many times I don't think another whacking of the dead horse would be worth it.

 

[Lukeje]

It's been proven the egg came first, since whatever reptile a chicken evolved from had to lay its egg for the mutations to manifest in the following generations.

...I think you're in the wrong thread...

Could have sworn I saw the chicken v. egg argument here.... I was going to give my 2 cents on the tree but it's been said so many times I don't think another whacking of the dead horse would be worth it.

Yeah, but then someone actually split off and formed their own thread, which is here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.109557#1876718].

 

[roboosh]

i said no cause I dunno if vibrations in the air qualify as sound

 

[almaster88]

i said no cause I dunno if vibrations in the air qualify as sound

Kinda missed the point, its a deep question, you shouldnt really answer if you dont know, oh well. Vibrations on anything when heard is "sound" although as the posts above say, sound is hard to define..

 

[roboosh]

i said no cause I dunno if vibrations in the air qualify as sound

Yes, yes they do:
sound
a. Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.
b. Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.
c. The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

Oh. Well I don't mind getting proven wrong so badly cos of your avatar I love Jay and Silent Bob.

 

[almaster88]

i said no cause I dunno if vibrations in the air qualify as sound

Yes, yes they do:
sound
a. Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.
b. Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.
c. The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

Oh. Well I don't mind getting proven wrong so badly cos of your avatar I love Jay and Silent Bob.

Same, musta seen that movie a hundred times. I have voted "no" but I wouldnt mind beeing proven wrong, I mean I did ask the question, so it would be stupid if I didnt hear what other people had to say. hmmm me brain hurts

 

[nerdsamwich]

Yes it does. The real question is, can you clap with one hand?

Yes. Yes I can.

 

[The Eaten Cake]

Interesting, but you can't use the arguement both ways. You can't assume x does y without proof, otherwise all irrationality's are given credibility. However you can ask to prove x does y to make the arguement rational.

Actually, it doesn't work both ways.

Well, all right, but the rest of my argument holds water. Once you begin to question perception, you end up questioning everything. What I see as blue, you might see as being what I see as green, et cetera.

 

[nerdsamwich]

Check the Definition of sound please.. its vibrations being heard.

That vibration will happen, even if it won't be heard.

Prove it

Let's say you're blind and deaf. You can't hear nor see. A tree falls right behind you. Does the sound happen or does it not?


The vibration has to occur in order to be perceived by something that can...well "decode" it. In order to say that the vibration will not happen, you need to prove that the ear is the cause of that vibration. Because if a tree really falls, the vibration will occur, even if it won't be heard by anyone.

Here we have two recievers, so ergo as long as the guitar player knows it's happening it's happening. Whereas in the situation posed there is no reciever. We have no evidence it has made a sound and thus saying it has is ridiculous and comes down to belief.

But it still made the vibration. Just because there isn't a receiver doesn't mean the vibration won't occur. In order to argue that it doesn't, you need to prove that the ear itself causes the vibration.

Your getting ahead of yourself. We have no proof anything to do with sound occured. I'm saying that we can't say the vibration occured, a noise happend, anything. We cannot prove anything to with sound has happend because we don't know.

Can you really prove anything? The universe could just be a figment of my imagination, but it's no fun if I operate on that assumption. If I instead stipulate that external phenomena are indeed external (ie, existing independently of consciousness), then something that makes a sound when you're listening must also make a sound when you're not. Otherwise, a clock wouldn't work unless you watched it at all times.
PS: Apologies for the double post.

 

[Raddragon]

"IF a Tree falls in a forest, and noone is around to hear it fall, does it make a sound?"

The real question is: Why wouldn't it?
Fine, i'm not around to prove that there is sound, but, when a tree DOES fall,if I am around, I will most likely be able to hear it.
If it makes sound when i'm around, why wouldn't it when i'm not?.

Humans can hear between 20 to 20,000 hertz.
If there is something lower than 20 hertz, there might still be a vibration trough the air, even if you can't hear it.

The problem here is the subjective definition of sound.

There are many diffrent subjective opinions of sound:
"Transmitted frequencies which have been detected.".
"A vibration between 20 to 20,000 hertz."
"Transmitted vibrations of any frequency."

I'll go with the latter. It goes well with my theory.

"Just because you can't percept it, doesn't mean its not there."

 

[bad rider]

Interesting, but you can't use the arguement both ways. You can't assume x does y without proof, otherwise all irrationality's are given credibility. However you can ask to prove x does y to make the arguement rational.

Actually, it doesn't work both ways.

Well, all right, but the rest of my argument holds water. Once you begin to question perception, you end up questioning everything. What I see as blue, you might see as being what I see as green, et cetera.

Check the Definition of sound please.. its vibrations being heard.

That vibration will happen, even if it won't be heard.

Prove it

Let's say you're blind and deaf. You can't hear nor see. A tree falls right behind you. Does the sound happen or does it not?


The vibration has to occur in order to be perceived by something that can...well "decode" it. In order to say that the vibration will not happen, you need to prove that the ear is the cause of that vibration. Because if a tree really falls, the vibration will occur, even if it won't be heard by anyone.

Here we have two recievers, so ergo as long as the guitar player knows it's happening it's happening. Whereas in the situation posed there is no reciever. We have no evidence it has made a sound and thus saying it has is ridiculous and comes down to belief.

But it still made the vibration. Just because there isn't a receiver doesn't mean the vibration won't occur. In order to argue that it doesn't, you need to prove that the ear itself causes the vibration.

Your getting ahead of yourself. We have no proof anything to do with sound occured. I'm saying that we can't say the vibration occured, a noise happend, anything. We cannot prove anything to with sound has happend because we don't know.

Can you really prove anything? The universe could just be a figment of my imagination, but it's no fun if I operate on that assumption. If I instead stipulate that external phenomena are indeed external (ie, existing independently of consciousness), then something that makes a sound when you're listening must also make a sound when you're not. Otherwise, a clock wouldn't work unless you watched it at all times.
PS: Apologies for the double post.

Because i'm lazy I'll answer both at once.

You both have the right idea. We have evolved as a species to knowing things happen beyond our fields of vision even a puppy knows this. However the fact we know things happen dosen't mean they happen as we would like to think, only in our own minds can we say what happens and it all comes down to believing it has happend. We can't say for sure what has happend but you can believe whatever you want.

 

[Finnboghi]

This is exactly the same as "If a mass in space exerts a gravitational force, but it's too distant to be measured, is there really any mass?"

Or "If a light source too dim to be seen shines, does it actually produce any light?"

The waves are produced.

They have an effect on the universe around them.

And besides, the only reason we can't hear it is because the threshold of human hearing is so high.

Sound is a pressure wave. It will never, ever, ever, ever completely vanish. It just gets too small to measure.

So yes, it does make a sound. Both literally and figuratively.

All other arguments are hereby null and void.

 

[bad rider]

This is exactly the same as "If a mass in space exerts a gravitational force, but it's too distant to be measured, is there really any mass?"

Or "If a light source too dim to be seen shines, does it actually produce any light?"

The waves are produced.

They have an effect on the universe around them.

And besides, the only reason we can't hear it is because the threshold of human hearing is so high.

Sound is a pressure wave. It will never, ever, ever, ever completely vanish. It just gets too small to measure.

So yes, it does make a sound. Both literally and figuratively.

All other arguments are hereby null and void.

Wait what? The point is not that sound is given, it does not already exist,that is where this arguement falls apart. In all of your examples the consequence is already stated to exsist, however the real question is does the consequence occur when we do not percieve it?

 

[darkless]

Depends who you listen to Everyone but Einstein says yes. Einstein says Technically they tree doesn't exist.

 

[TheMushroomClub]

This riddle is the worlds worst riddle. If you say it, somebody always argues "How can yuo prove it?" *Punch* YES IT FUCKING DOES!! DO YOU AGREE?