Poll: If you've ever downloaded something illegally, YOU are to blame for SOPA/PIPA.

Doom-Slayer

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Jul 18, 2009
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lordmardok said:
Shogun 2 and pretty much every Total War game: Love the series, love the games. but oh my god the bugs are unbelievable, and Shogun 2 tops them all. It is literally unplayable on my computer, there are no fixes, they're response was: we'll patch it in a month or so. And I payed full price for that bastard because I'd been looking forward to it all damn year.

Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion: Also paid full price for this and the bugs were unbelievable. The actual gameplay was broken, and the graphics were actually kind of lame. It was only after about a half-dozen USER MADE PATCHES that the game was enjoyable.

Fallout 3: Same complaints as Oblivion, the patches were the only thing that made this game playable.
These are isolated problems and not a very good example. Shogun 2, Fallout and Oblivion all gained very high review scores and did very well and in terms of bugs...not actually that bad compared to something like New Vegas which was very well known for bugs. And not enjoying gameplay or having it unplayable, thats one part your opinion and another part being unlucky. Ive played Oblivion, Fallout, Fallout: New Vegas AND Skyrim on PC, and have encountered a SINGLE noticeable bug, and that was in my like 10th Oblivion playthrough where I couldn't finish the Thieves guild quest.

OT: saying that -you- or to a specific person illegally downloading games is...inaccurate. SOPA is brought about by a multitude of things and by a volume of people..not specific people but by a huge amount of people all doing the same thing. If your claiming that -you- a person that downloaded a copyrighted game are the cause of SOPA, then you are claiming that if that person DIDN'T download that game, SOPA wouldn't of happened, which is ridiculous. If you downloaded a game illegally you HELPED bring out about the cause of SOPA. Small difference but its important.
 

Sylveria

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Jack the Potato said:
Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.
Burnie Burns is a fool then. He's ultra-simplifying a very complex problem. As many have said, SOPA and everything that is like SOPA is nuking an ant hill. Yes, the ant hill is gone, but the collateral damage is indescribable. Do we outlaw cars because sometimes people drive drunk? Do we outlaw guns because some people shoot other people? Do we outlaw knives because some people stab other people? That's his argument as I see it.

And really, do people honestly believe that if piracy, as we define it now, just ceased, that internet censorship legislature would stop coming? Cause if you're in those people, I truly envy you for having such child-like innocence about the world, and profoundly pity you on the day you find out the world is not that simple.

Honestly, I doubt the "Damage of piracy" will ever end because there's nothing to stop publishers for blaming poor sales on piracy as a way to justify losses to their stockholders. The loss and real numbers of piracy are impossible to verify, thus making it the perfect scapegoat. Even if piracy was gone, "piracy" would still be "harming" these companies, thus giving them an excuse to push for more control over the internet.
 

ImperialSunlight

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Isn't this a bit obvious? Yeah. If no one pirated things we wouldn't need a law against piracy. What's your point? They'll do it anyway. That's the way humans are.
 

greatcheezer2021

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Oct 18, 2011
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its not the pirates fault. its the corporations for putting all this crap out and charging us up the ass for it. what are you going to do when you have a internet connection and theres loads of plenty free for the taking?

and just how do you download something illegally? is there someone in my house telling me not to download shit i want? my internet provider sure as hell doesnt hold my hand(s) for me.
 

aprildog18

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Feb 16, 2010
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I agree. No piracy=no need to regulate no piracy.
Then again, if we didn't have bad people in the world, we wouldn't need regulations and laws (damn those people!).
That's also saying that since there are car accidents, there is a age requirement.
 

Guardian of Nekops

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May 25, 2011
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See, there's a big difference between preventing piracy and turning the internet into a police state. There's a lot of room to blame BOTH the pirates AND the idiots who make laws about things they don't even vaguely understand, based on large sums of money they recieve from corrupt corporations.

Piracy is not good. People who download software or other content that the producer of said content is willing to sell them at a reasonable price (and no, you don't get to decide what a reasonable price is) are definitely in the wrong. I feel a bit differently about abandoned software, the good old stuff that's no longer supported or sold... saying nobody can play it because people don't bother to sell it anymore seems a bit less reasonable. That said, downloading something new for free because you don't feel like paying for it is wrong. No doubt.

However, just because people do some unsavory things behind closed doors (and they do) doesn't allow you to kick people's doors down or burn their houses to the ground to stop them. In real life, you need a warrant, probable cause. The fact that crime exists does NOT give law enforcement the right to make people's lives hell to try to stop it, and the fact that the people who were deciding that such would be okay online don't do things online or understand the internet means they should keep their damn mouths shut about how things should be policed there.

What we had with SOPA was similar in spirit to the old days in the American Colonies, when people back in England were deciding what rights we needed over here. The people who decide these things should have some knowledge, some skin in the game. They should know the internet well, should CARE if it gets ruined, and that was clearly not the case. Not this time, anyway.
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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Jack the Potato said:
I agree, but that doesn't make pirating okay. My point was that while SOPA was stupid, piracy made Congress think it was a good idea, so we should probably focus less of our attention on how stupid congress is (because at this point that's just beating a dead horse) and focus more on how media pirates almost fucked up the internet for all of us. They are the criminals here, and I'd rather persecute criminals than idiots.
This is the point on which your argument fails. You take one assertion,"piracy is bad," and then try to make a direct link to another assertion, "therefore piracy is the cause." This is not a valid leap to make. Especially not if you take a historical perspective on the issue.

Looking at past laws and their relationship with the publishing industry, you can see a positive relationship between the extension of copyright lifespan and the evolution of the publishing industry into Big Media as we know it today. You can also see a habitual effort on industry's part to cripple or destroy every single new technology that has ever allowed information and art to be distributed.

The church fought the printing press. There was an attempt to deny people the right to take photographs without permission of the person owning the subject being captured. A similar dispute between musical composers and the early recording industry was settled by congress. The recording industry, in turn, fought radio, the tape cassette, recordable CDs, the mp3 and software to create them, and finally, digital distribution. The movie and broadcasting industries fought cable TV, the VCR and so on...

The only thing that has changed here is scale. Without profitable IPs being released into public domain, the media industry has fed and fed until it has grown into an entity that can nearly dictate terms to governments. SOPA is a power bid and nothing more. Regardless of the right or wrong involved, piracy itself is an excuse. Nothing more.
 

Random Fella

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Nov 17, 2010
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Nope
I'm pretty sure the few downloads i've done illegally wouldn't cause such a market loss that they would bring out bills just to counteract me
Anyway the people to blame for SOPA/PIPA are the greedy entertainment industry and the idiotic government who doesn't realise that they earn so little compared to some websites
 

AarinSwift

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Nov 29, 2011
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Jack the Potato said:
Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.
I quoted the OP because I havn't read past it yet.

SOPA is bad, it is bad bad bad bad bad.

production companies have abused their powers many many times in the past. and with SOPA will continue to do so.

SOPA allows corporations to take down websites and cut off their cashflow without proof, or opportunity for appeal.

let me outline this for you plainly.

SOPA would allow a corporation undeniable rule over the internet and it's content, production companies have already proven that SOPA is nothing more than a tool to allow them to carpet bomb all media on the internet in order to facilitate their own desires.

these corporations would want this power with or without the excuse of piracy, Piracy is just the vehicle they are using to extract this power from the government.

The act we today call Piracy has been around for longer than the internet, long before you or I were born, long before anyone or anything we now know today even was conceptualized, people were copying and using other people's works.

and we are still here. artists still make enough money to feed their children, producers make enough money to feed their children's children's children's children (honestly, have you looked up the net worth of the average production company CEO? it's like 9+ figures, they and their next generations could not work a day in their lives and not have need for anything)

if piracy stopped today, if everybody stopped pirating, the next SOPA would still try to pass, -but with some other excuse- actually you know what? scratch that... they'd still be using many of the excuses they have this time around, people singing songs on youtube are pirates (a-la Justin Bieber), any and all works of art created by their licensed artists should legally belong to their production company even if given away for free - even when there is already legal precedent for those artists to give it out freely like Will-I-am and megaupload.

actually, lets look at megaupload for a second...

Will-I-am and a slew of other artists make a song in support of the website, take a look at that for a second, the artists who we pirate want your support for megaupload, a website that allows people to engage in piracy.

then, the production company who owns rights to some of these artists make effort to have the song taken down from the internet, something that -by law- they have no right to do, this is free and legal content to be seen by all who wish to see it, and universal took measures to take it down.

megaupload take legal action, something they have legal right to do, as the production company took action with content they don't own any rights to.

and then the FBI come and arrest the megaupload staff and take down the website.

now that stinks of abuse of power.

and, just like passing SOPA, piracy is the excuse for production companies to abuse power. in this instance, it was because they didn't like other people benefiting from the work of their artists.

for further proof that production companies would try to pass a SOPA like law with or without piracy, look at region coding.

region coding does nothing but enforce pricing onto legitimate customers. and serves no purpose but to act as a vehicle to allow production companies to gouge their legitimate customers.

here's a further example.

in Australia, songs on iTunes are $1 more expensive than in America.

let me put it another way, a song purchased from a computer using an Australian ISP has a $1 surcharge, as compared to an Australian computer using an American proxy.

why does Australia have this surcharge? is it because of piracy? is it because of delivery expense?

twice the Australian government has asked Apple to explain this charge, and Apple are yet to even acknowledge this.

this is not because of piracy, this is done simply because it can be done and it makes money.

so no, piracy did not cause SOPA, a SOPA like law would try to pass with or without piracy, just as they have before, and will try to again, in order for production companies to find new avenues to enforce people to pay as high a price as possible.
 

natster43

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That is completely true, if there wasn't piracy there would have been no reason for SOPA/PIPA.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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There needs to be an option for "Partially"

Yes, piracy caused this sort of regulation to be seen as necessary, however, the old people on the hill are the ones who went about so goddamn stupidly.
 

Scars Unseen

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Raesvelg said:
Apparently 73% of the Escapist's forum-goers are living in denial.
That, or they understand the meaning of the word scapegoat. It's also possible that they can spot a century long pattern when they see one.
 

Monkeyman O'Brien

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Jan 27, 2012
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Anyone who actually believes that piracy caused SOPA is a window licking retard.
SOPA has nothing to do with piracy. Its about big corporations trying to force content creators to deal with them. They can not stand that people could go to this big popular site, upload their shit themselves and get donations for it without giving them their cut. So yeah, SOPA has never been about piracy and if someone tells you that it is you should punch their stupid lights out.
Oh and never listen to anyone with as ridiculous a name as Burnie Burns...
 

lordmardok

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Doom-Slayer said:
lordmardok said:
Shogun 2 and pretty much every Total War game: Love the series, love the games. but oh my god the bugs are unbelievable, and Shogun 2 tops them all. It is literally unplayable on my computer, there are no fixes, they're response was: we'll patch it in a month or so. And I payed full price for that bastard because I'd been looking forward to it all damn year.

Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion: Also paid full price for this and the bugs were unbelievable. The actual gameplay was broken, and the graphics were actually kind of lame. It was only after about a half-dozen USER MADE PATCHES that the game was enjoyable.

Fallout 3: Same complaints as Oblivion, the patches were the only thing that made this game playable.
These are isolated problems and not a very good example. Shogun 2, Fallout and Oblivion all gained very high review scores and did very well and in terms of bugs...not actually that bad compared to something like New Vegas which was very well known for bugs. And not enjoying gameplay or having it unplayable, thats one part your opinion and another part being unlucky. Ive played Oblivion, Fallout, Fallout: New Vegas AND Skyrim on PC, and have encountered a SINGLE noticeable bug, and that was in my like 10th Oblivion playthrough where I couldn't finish the Thieves guild quest.

OT: saying that -you- or to a specific person illegally downloading games is...inaccurate. SOPA is brought about by a multitude of things and by a volume of people..not specific people but by a huge amount of people all doing the same thing. If your claiming that -you- a person that downloaded a copyrighted game are the cause of SOPA, then you are claiming that if that person DIDN'T download that game, SOPA wouldn't of happened, which is ridiculous. If you downloaded a game illegally you HELPED bring out about the cause of SOPA. Small difference but its important.
Its a little... ignorant... to call ALL of these isolated. Look up how many help forums there are for Shogun 2. It's terrifying just how many bugs, and I personally know someone who bought the game and had it flat out not work at all. It crashed at the end of turn 1 every single time. For me it was turn 60. Every Single Time.

For oblivion I'm not saying it was bad, I'm saying it wasn't worth what they were asking and they let all those bugs stay in the game. If you didn't encounter any bugs then remember you might just have gotten lucky. I ran into endless bugs, some helpful, most not. Just in Oblivion itself, as well as Fallout. I'm went through page after page of help forums and I saw just how many people had problems with these games. Remember that there are more people than just you playing this game. For Shogun 2 it was terrible, most of them didnt work. If your copy worked then you were the minority.
 

Tiger Sora

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What caused SOPA Tiger?
Well thats easy Jimmy, it's piracy.
Well what caused piracy?
Unavailability and overpricing.
Well what caused those?
Well ones time, and theres nothing we can do about that. So what causes the overpricing that lead to piracy, that lead to SOPA. Well corporate greed and them ruining the economy.
Well than Tiger what can we do. Capitalism is screwing us over so we try to screw them back by being pirates. But the government doesn't like that cause they lose money, and corporate interests in the government demand something be done.
Well this just shows Capitalism and government is flawed due to mans greed and corruptibility much like how Communism didn't work out.. As there will always be someone or a group of someone's wanting more money and control. So Jimmy we can either restart the system from scratch and wind up back here eventually, or tool an entirely new system with full accountability and transparency and have everyone involved in the decision making or something. But I doubt that'll happen. But until the revolution Jimmy lets just go get some soda pop and chips and watch the tussle until enough people are ready.
OK!
And you all do the same too. I'll see you all downtown, December 21, 2012. Don't forget your torches, pitchforks and guns.

Please note this is ENTIRELY SATIRICAL and not accurate. It's just to show my displeasure at everything.
 

Terminate421

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
No. Whoever Burnie Burns is, I hope many people told him how fucking retarded he is.
You realize Burnie Burns is about as powerful as the people who do Penny Arcade right?
 

ChaosBorne

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http://youtu.be/ABCRdS7KPCo

so yeah the people responsible for SOPA are the people trying to get it passed.
they created and distributed the software to fileshare, made money off of it and now they turn around and try to stiffle our freedoms.
this is about control and nothing else, it has very little to actually do with piracy.