Poll: Illegal Imigration

[AndyFromMonday]

"I'm not racist but fuck those illegal immigrants, they subjugate our culture and destroy everything we stand for!" That sounds oddly familiar.

 

[Tibike77]

Honestly, I believe the concept of "nations" is outdated, and all nations as a concept should go the way of the Dodo... one planet, one government (as little of it as possible, preferably far less than any one that exists now), one currency, one set of rules (and as little of them as possible), with many, many, many companies. Open all borders, let everybody move freely anywhere at any time, let the market take care of everything else.

 

[teqrevisited]

Briton here. I say collapse the channel tunnel and employ people to ensure they don't come up the beaches.

If they're looking for refuge they should have stopped at the safest country that was closest to the one they were running away from, not the one that's thousands of miles away and has a government that will bend over backwards to give them benefits.

 

[Evilbunny]

my big issue(being an American AND living in Southern California) comes from the fact that now, at age 26 I am suddenly expected to learn spanish to get a job since now, from illegal immigration and people being too lazy to learn english, more than half our population is mexican. Personally it doesnae seem fair that I should have to do that in my native country. I have a few friends who their parents had them after crossing the border and I have a few friends who their parents came over here legally. So I have seen both sides of the coin so to speak. It is expensive and a pain in the ass to legally become an American citizen. However, that being said, we need to actually, you know, uphold our own damn constitution and laws regarding immigration instead of just looking the other way. What's the point of having a law if you're going to ignore it? At least Arizona is upholding the law. They had to make their own law a similar one to the countries to do so but at least it is happening somewhere. And yes, I am trying to get out of the States, legally. I want to live over in the UK. Mostly for the weather, but that's another topic altogether.

I feel like that's less of a problem with our immigration system and more of a problem with our education system. Most countries in Europe require students to learn English even if it is not their native tongue, since it is difficult to find a job without that skill. The same thing should be done here. Learning Spanish should be a required course for all schools in the U.S. especially in those states near the border.

 

[Blow_Pop]

my big issue(being an American AND living in Southern California) comes from the fact that now, at age 26 I am suddenly expected to learn spanish to get a job since now, from illegal immigration and people being too lazy to learn english, more than half our population is mexican. Personally it doesnae seem fair that I should have to do that in my native country. I have a few friends who their parents had them after crossing the border and I have a few friends who their parents came over here legally. So I have seen both sides of the coin so to speak. It is expensive and a pain in the ass to legally become an American citizen. However, that being said, we need to actually, you know, uphold our own damn constitution and laws regarding immigration instead of just looking the other way. What's the point of having a law if you're going to ignore it? At least Arizona is upholding the law. They had to make their own law a similar one to the countries to do so but at least it is happening somewhere. And yes, I am trying to get out of the States, legally. I want to live over in the UK. Mostly for the weather, but that's another topic altogether.

I feel like that's less of a problem with our immigration system and more of a problem with our education system. Most countries in Europe require students to learn English even if it is not their native tongue, since it is difficult to find a job without that skill. The same thing should be done here. Learning Spanish should be a required course for all schools in the U.S. especially in those states near the border.

I disagree. Just because a bunch of people want to live here but don't want to learn the language should not mean that I should have to learn it. Off the top of my head (and I don't remember which country it is but IF I recall correctly and anyone who knows what I'm talking about please feel free to correct me I think it is one of the Scandinavian countries though) there is a country in Europe where if you are living there or trying to become a resident and the mayor or person in charge comes up to you and can't hold a basic conversation with you in the native language you get kicked out until you can learn the basics of the language. Honestly I would have no problem with America adopting that policy. And for godssake if you call someone up and they answer in English DON'T speak rapid fire Spanish at them!(/end rant of customer service jobs)

 

[electric_warrior]

yeah but are they paying taxes? they may be working but it's very unlikely they are paying taxes on what they earn. thats why citizenship is important not just to them but to the country. if we can get them to be legal citizens we can tax them. if we can tax them we get back some of what we give them in welfare.

If you grant them amnesty, they become legal citizens. Hence more tax money and more welfare. it just speeds up the process.

 

[Jodah]

Get rid of anchor baby and marriage loopholes.

Make a probationary period, immigrants must find work, pay taxes, etc. They are given nearly all citizenship rights except voting and are able to be deported if necessary. After X years they are given full citizenship and sent on their way if they pass certain criteria.

One criteria is learning to speak at least basic English. Respecting your culture is fine, I support doing that. However, you chose to leave there for whatever reason, that comes with some requirements. You are not being forced at gun point to come to America.

 

[dystopiaINC]

yeah but are they paying taxes? they may be working but it's very unlikely they are paying taxes on what they earn. thats why citizenship is important not just to them but to the country. if we can get them to be legal citizens we can tax them. if we can tax them we get back some of what we give them in welfare.

If you grant them amnesty, they become legal citizens. Hence more tax money and more welfare. it just speeds up the process.

gotta agree with Hammertroll here. it just encourages them to come in. and i don't think they will pay taxes if you automatically make them a citizen especially if they didn't already. you need to work them through the system legally, from what i see they want to be here for the benefits but not pay for them like a normal citizen.

So long as illegals have every intention of working, and prove so by either working or searching for jobs, then I see absolutely no problem with them being here.

I also think there should be an amnesty for those who have been here for so many years (five or ten or something).

If you pay your way, you can stay.

why give them amnesty when they can start the process becoming a citizen any time they want?

Why force someone who's been living and working in the country for ten years to begin the process when you can just take their continued and substantial contribution to your country as a substitute for that process?

The Belgium fellow above put it very well, it encourages people to break the law for 5 years just to be rewarded. It would cause more illigal immigration because if you could manage to stay here for 5 years, which isn't that hard with government assistance, you get a free ticket. While it would be easier for us and them (who've been here for over 5 years) to just grant amnesty, it would be a bad precedent and make our immigration problem worse.

If we just cut all funding to illigals, those who've been here for more than 5 years would find citizinship ASAP... or leave, which is fine too.

agreed here man.


also what do people think about other problems that illegal immigration gives rise to?
Drug trafficking?
Gangs like MS-13 that are made up of 90% illegal immigrants?

and do you think they really do take jobs away? i think they do especially now in this economy.

 

[StarCecil]

Get rid of anchor baby and marriage loopholes.

Actually, the "anchor baby" loophole stems from the 14th Amendment that stipulates that anyone "born and naturalized" in the US is a citizen and therefore granted all the rights that entails. It was written post-Civil War to handle how ex-slaves should be treated. I don't think it could be done away with without a major retooling, possible losing some important things in the process.

And the "marriage loophole" actually makes it possible for someone to get citizenship to be with their spouse in the US. For instance, a Marine stationed overseas might get married to a local girl and want to be able to live with her in the US. I don't think that's something that should be gotten rid of either.

 

[electric_warrior]

Problem is that illegal immigrants routinely take more than they put back into the system. While in the U.S they enjoy the protection of the U.S military, law and order provided by police and justice system, welfare support, medicaid, hospital access, food stamps, public education, and a number of other services that they don't pay for because they don't pay taxes.

The route to citizenship should be streamlined but that does not mean we can be lax on those who did, in fact, break the law. This is a society, society means rules, if you can't live with those rules you can leave.

Surely they've broken the law simply by being an illegal immigrant? I'm not saying reward breaking the law, what I am saying it don't bother with forcing them to take the citizenship test when you could just give them citizenship. I mean, if they've been there for that long surely the test would be pretty much a formality. Of course they'd have to prove how long they've been in the country.

I guess streamlining would be just as good, if not better, but a one time amnesty followed by streamlining the process would get rid of a lot of paperwork/hassle.

 

[dystopiaINC]

look i have nothing with immigrants, many of the people i work with are great and recent immigrants, but they are LEGAL immigrants. i have no problem with people who come in normally and go through the system and pay taxes. none at all. i have a problem with people who use and abuse the system all while being here illegally

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

Here's the thing-
They don't pay taxes,
They take jobs that should be reserved for citizens
and some of them traffic drugs, and harm the innocent.

They look rather bad on my terms. I don't mind if you come to the great continent of the United states illigally, but eventually get citizenship.
So yes, reciving citizenship should be easier, just eliminate some of the hassle, but still, Every job, EVERY SINGLE JOB should check to see if the person applying is a U.S citizen, or has legal rights to work. That's the gist of it.

Grim fact: We could have locked down all of our borders and let 2/3rds of the world deteriate around us during the cold war.

 

[thedarkfreak]

Those who come here illegally are already breaking our laws. They've already show disdain for our system.

Then they soak up our tax money, and don't pay any of their own taxes.

I don't think we should hunt them down, though. I think the best way to go about it is to simply enforce the job laws. If there wasn't anywhere that was putting illegals to work, there wouldn't be as many here.

I think the whole "born here, US citizen" thing is dumb, too. They purposely ship busloads of pregnant women over the border just so they can have their children in the US and say "you can't kick out a US citizen."

 

[babinro]

Voted that I don't care.

When it comes down to it I'm simply not informed enough about this topic to hold an opinion on whether it should be welcomed or condemned to allow illegal immigration.

I could endeavor to change that, but it simply doesn't have a notable impact on my life and those around me to my knowledge. I'd rather focus attention elsewhere.

 

[ImSkeletor]

If immigrants pay taxes then I don't care, but if they don't they need to get the hell out because all they are doing is screwing up our country.

 

[Sangreal Gothcraft]

Illegal Immigration...meh....>.>....Shut the borders, if you want to come, come the legal way...like my family did>.> and no I'm not Mexican...I'm Dominican, I say if they want to come here they should at least have the common curisoty to learn English and follow our laws , and not smuggle Drugs and say "Dis is america i no need no engrish" Since Techically English is not Offical Language of USA but it is De Facto....but yeah back to topic... shut borders and tell them to fuck off, Come back when Economy is better and when you don't smuggle Drugs and babies..

 

[Harrowdown]

On the one hand, I have absolutely no problem with immigration, and think that a healthy attitude toward it is important for the economic welfare of a country. Certainly, i'm not of the view that we should prioritise British born citizens over anyone from outside of the country based on arbitrary ethnic/nationalist loyalties. On the other hand, immigration without regulation can be fatal. An economy can only support so many people. I would say that whilst the process to citizenship should perhaps be easier, the government should, first and foremost, be receptive to immigration. Encourage immigration, welcome those who want to join up and contribute, and more people will opt to come over legally. As far as the current illegals go, i'd suggest something similar to what the liberal democrats proposed to do before the conservatives got a grip on them; anybody currently living here illegally, who has been doing so for more than ten years, knows the language well enough and is willing, should be given the opportunity to declare themselves and be given amnesty. There's those that will say this is 'rewarding' illegality, but I disagree. The conditions ensure that the immigrants would likely be accustomed to the country, willing to pay tax and contribute to society and be able to integrate with the society. What's more, it's a good way of finding those people who have been keeping off the grid this whole time, and would likely stay off it for even longer. I'd suggest a deadline as well, to discourage those who choose not to comply.

 

[crono738]

Belgium here. Yes, we do have this problem.
Yes, it bothers me. There are legal ways to gain citizenship of my country. If you are denied the privilege, then you do not have the right to come here anyway and live, more often than not, off money that comes from crime.
More than that, a majority of illegal immigrants never even bother trying to apply via a legal course first.
Because the law here states that if you can prove you've lived in my country, illegaly or not, for 5 years, you gain citizenship. Because you've created ties in that time.
Essentially rewarding people for breaking the law 5 years running.

As for the American problem, I really don't know enough about the situation there to have an informed opinion.

What I think of it? Well, let me give an example.
I remember a couple years back, some collossal assholes climbed a crane at a construction site and refused to come down until they got Belgian citizenship.
Let's make an estimate that with goverment funded living(housing, food, social workers, etc), courses in my language, help finding jobs, subsidies for companies that do employ them, and so on and so forth, these fuckers would cost the state a quarter million ? each before they became self sufficient, IF they ever became self sufficient, because evidence suggests they'd parasite on my taxes until the day they died.
A quarter million.

Yet if I were to climb a crane and demand something equally ludicrous, like have a banner with me that says 'Gimme a goddamn 250000? Lamborghini or I'm not coming down", I'd be the crazy one.
Even though technically, if anyone has a right to 250000? of MY country's money (or any amount, really), it's me. As I have already paid at least a tenth of that amount in taxes, and in another decade or so will have paid say... a fifth. If I were older, I'd have paid it already.
I'm obviously not saying I expect a car, I'm very happy I'm paying for firemen and the like.
But these motherfuckers come from their third world crapholes, thousans every fucking year (not to mention the tens of thousands who do it legally and also live off my money), expecting me and my countrymen to pay for them?

Fuck that.
This is a sovereign nation, and if they want to live here, they have to live by its rules.
If those rules say they cannot live here, they need to get the fuck out.
The people of this nation have spoken. They voted representatives into office who decided that no, not every single person on earth is good enough to live here. They must qualify.
This is the law, and it is the voice of the people by virtue of the fact that this is a democracy.

Close down the borders, that's what I say. With an electrified fence and goddamn landmines.
There are legal ways of getting in, and if their literally very first act on the soil of my country is to break the law, because the moment they set foot on our soil they're breaking the law, they have no right, and it baffles me that anyone in their right minds would have the fucking gall to straight facedly tell me we should be lenient with this scum.
No fucking way. Over my dead body.

Pretty much this. Come here legally, I could give two shits. But, if you hop the border, and then have the balls to protest that you deserve the rights of other US citizens, you can get the fuck out.

 

[Viral_Lola]

Ok so i was doing some random research of different topics for a possible research paper. and one of the topics hat caught my interest was Illegal Immigration. so i want to ask you fellow escapists.

for Americans, what are your views on it? people living off the government and not paying taxes? sanctuary towns? gangs like ms-13? drug trafficking over the border?

for everyone else do you have this problem in your countries? does it bother you? what do you think about the problem in America? should the close the borders down or open them up?

whats your opinion on illegal immigration?

EDIT: also what do you think of "anchor babies"? An America if your born in the US your automatically a citizen, so an anchor babies is a child born in the states the help keep the parents from being deported. also these babies are eligible for well fare and education on the government's dime, (tax payers money really)

I say deal with the ones that are already here and do something about the borders. As for anchor babies, I would change it to where only people born to US citizens or green card holders. I know that sounds rather harsh but some countries do not allow dual citizenship. I also can't understand why there are Chinese citizens coming over just to have babies. China will not and does not recognize dual citizenship. I'm speaking this as an immigrant in the US. (I came here legally because my parents were political refugees.)

 

[Zack1501]

I wrote a paper on this. my opinion is don't change anything. let them sneak in and work for cheep.they don't get all the benefits of citizenship but still can make money.