Poll: Illegal Imigration

[dystopiaINC]

On the one hand, I have absolutely no problem with immigration, and think that a healthy attitude toward it is important for the economic welfare of a country. Certainly, i'm not of the view that we should prioritise British born citizens over anyone from outside of the country based on arbitrary ethnic/nationalist loyalties. On the other hand, immigration without regulation can be fatal. An economy can only support so many people. I would say that whilst the process to citizenship should perhaps be easier, the government should, first and foremost, be receptive to immigration. Encourage immigration, welcome those who want to join up and contribute, and more people will opt to come over legally. As far as the current illegals go, i'd suggest something similar to what the liberal democrats proposed to do before the conservatives got a grip on them; anybody currently living here illegally, who has been doing so for more than ten years, knows the language well enough and is willing, should be given the opportunity to declare themselves and be given amnesty. There's those that will say this is 'rewarding' illegality, but I disagree. The conditions ensure that the immigrants would likely be accustomed to the country, willing to pay tax and contribute to society and be able to integrate with the society. What's more, it's a good way of finding those people who have been keeping off the grid this whole time, and would likely stay off it for even longer. I'd suggest a deadline as well, to discourage those who choose not to comply.

thing about amnesty is you can't just grant it to everybody, you have to limit to people who come forward and are willing to register to become citizens, otherwise you go and give all these people amnesty and they just go about their regular day business but now you have nothing to deport them for when they still don't pay taxes and such. it may not even be a thing they want to do

 

[theevilgenius60]

I think the only antipathy I feel regarding illegals boils town to these things:
1.) If you're moving here to become a citizen, be just that. Don't be a hyphenated American because that word before the hyphen? You chose to leave it behind when you moved here. (ever see one of the amnesty rallies? Ever seen Old Glory at one? Probably not, all I ever see is the red white and green with the eagle and snake on a cactus. Point made)
2.) As several people have said, learn English, but again that ties into the first point
3.) Work. Pay your taxes. Hell, this line ties into number one also, so I guess just the first point
4.) Also, as a problem with the system, citizenship needs to be a touch easier as that would cut down on the need to come here illegally.

 

[Kittynugget]

Just get rid of NAFTA. Seriously.

1. NAFTA forces low tariffs on American grown food entering Mexico.
2. It's cheaper for Mexicans to buy American grown food than Mexican grown food.
3. Mexican farmers can't compete with high-yield American agribusiness.
4. These Mexican farmers go out of business causing a huge loss of jobs. (farmers/farmhands)
5. These laborers now have to go north into the US to work on farms here.

 

[triggrhappy94]

I'm between "They need our help" and "Citizenship should be easier"
The first one does seem patronizing though.
At least here in America a lot of people don't realize that for many imigrants there is no other way into the country and there is no other option for these people. It comes down to either entering the country "illegaly" or starving.

We need to find a way to allow these people in, but have a way to document them, so they don't just disappear.

 

[Deadlyveggie]

I live in London. This is not a racial comment but when I walk into a superstore, I could just as easily be in Bangladesh.

This isn't really a problem... But when a checkout employee gets pissed at ME for THEM not understanding English, it gets under my freggin skin. I travel a lot, I learn the language even if I'm only there for a month. If I'm immigrating, I make fairly sure I have a bloody grasp of basic English.

Also, being a student it took me 4 MONTHS of constant daily searching to find a part time job here. Too few jobs and too many immigrants cause some pretty hiiiiiigh social tensions.

 

[JaredXE]

They're illegal. That's the main issue. Yeah they may individually be nice people and only want what's best for their families, but why can't they improve their own country before invading mine? I'm sorry, but I think our country is too lenient on illegals. Take Mexico for example: If you were a South American coming up into the southern border of Mexico and got caught, your ass is either shot or in federal prison. Know why? Because Mexico puts their military at their border to guard against illegals. If America did that, there would be a shitstorm coming down about how racist and intolerant that is.

Yeah, America was founded by immigrants, we accepted them into our borders for centuries, it's part of our culture.......but that shit needs to stop. We have enough people now. Make it HARDER to become a citizen, hell make it so that you need to be a civil servant of some kind before you are even considered to be a citizen even if you were born here! And of course, imprison the heads of businesses that employ illegals over actual Americans.

 

[ace_of_something]

Ok so i was doing some random research of different topics for a possible research paper. and one of the topics hat caught my interest was Illegal Immigration. so i want to ask you fellow escapists.

for Americans, what are your views on it? people living off the government and not paying taxes? sanctuary towns? gangs like ms-13? drug trafficking over the border?

for everyone else do you have this problem in your countries? does it bother you? what do you think about the problem in America? should the close the borders down or open them up?

whats your opinion on illegal immigration?

I've actually gone undercover for an extended period of time as an ms-13 member. It was harrowing. (especially for a 6'6" blonde haired, blue eyed guy)

My general problem is with the humanitarian issues and the drain it puts on the corrections system.

For example, all the various companies (mostly factories and sub-contractors) who pay illegal immigrants well below minimum wage. I don't blame the immigrants for trying to improve their lot in life. The employeers should not be hiring people knowing that they are illegal but the temptation of cheap labor is too much for them...They should be held responsible [a href=http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-22/us/nebraska.immigration_1_immigration-policy-farmers-branch-ordinance?_s=PM:US] Some places have passed laws like this[/a]

When, I was severely injured and between police jobs i worked at a huge jail (1800 beds) literally 2/5 of the jail at any given time were illegal immigrant holds.
They cost MORE then an average inmate partly because of federal guidelines that give them a few more rights (example: they do not have to buy extra toiletries even when they have the money to, unlike other inmates who only get free extras if they're indigent) as an ICE hold you can NOT bail out of jail either.

If they chose to fight the charges it can take years before they go anywhere. If they're from an 'exotic' enough place even if they don't fight it, it can still take years for them to go anywhere the gov't doesn't want to book the flight/bus unless they have X amount of immigrants to send back to the country in question. I knew one guy who was sitting in jail because he let his student visa expire for 22 months, he was from Togo, eventually they transferred him to another facility that had more people from Togo so they could build up the numbers.

As far as the 'borders' needing guarded a LOT of the illegals i met were at one time in the country legally. Student visas, work permits, temporary passes that they let lapse. That seems to me to be more the crux of the problem.

I could give you tons of anecdotal experience but i don't want to type that much. If anything piqued you ask me in me more specifically here or in PM.

I could go on and on.

 

[The Gray Train]

My dad and I were talking about this recently, and we came up with a plan: call all illegal immigrants to the border, and give them a choice: participate in building a massive wall stretching from coast to coast, or leave. If they help, in any capacity (even just as a construction gopher, water carrier, whatever), during and for two years after the project they will have an amnesty type window. From the moment they start they are issued a registration number so they could pay income tax as well as be protected under our Constitution and qualify for things like workman's comp and OSHA standards. After their work period is up they have to take citizenship and English classes, and once those are completed they're issued an SSN. Vetted construction companies will oversee construction of the wall, so the immigrants can get professional training and job experience. This way, every illegal that wants to stay will become a tax paying, Constitutionally protected citizen, and we get a wall that will put a serious dent in the flow of drugs, human trafficking and other crap coming from Central and South America. That being said, I don't LIKE the idea of a wall, but it seems to be the most effective solution. Maybe when the citizens of Mexico and other countries to the south rise up and fight for true freedom and democracy, we can tear the wall back down.

 

[minuialear]

I mean, chances are your ancestors were illegal immigrants so you are yourself basically a anchor baby.
Ask any native american what they think about illegal immigrants.

There were possibly people living in the Americas before the people we call Native Americans has even crossed into the continents. So it's very possible they can't say a thing about it.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/04/oregon_cave_yields_evidence_of_the_earliest_americans_yet/

Also there's a difference between immigrating and conquering (which the people already in the Americas did their fair share of amongst each other and potentially to other peoples before them, to obtain much of the land they ended up losing to Europeans), so that claim's a bit misleading.

Not to say they deserved getting pushed off the land they themselves may have fought for, but...objectivity is key. Also the fact that they didn't really do much to stop the "illegal immigrants" until it was too late, doesn't really help the case that the US should allow illegal immigrants to continue breaking the law. If anything it kinda paints a bleaker picture than many who oppose illegal immigration have offered.

Personally don't really have a issue with it. You put out a big sign saying "SEE! This is why everyone should want to live here!" then you whine when they do?

Disney World puts on a bunch of commercials about how awesome it is and how every kid should go there, but that doesn't make it right for people to break into the park. Sure, letting one poor kid sneak into the park doesn't really hurt the park at all, but if a LOT of kids start doing it, then Disney World's going to start having some problems, for a number of hopefully obvious reasons.

OT: I think it should be easier to become a refugee, but I don't think citizenship needs to be made easier (my parents managed alright), nor do I think it's right to reward people who are breaking the law for reasons that wouldn't qualify them for a somewhat more relaxed refugee status (for example, facing persecution, etc). There are millions of people worse off who I'd argue deserve to be brought into this country more than some of the illegal immigrants who cross the border (because they are in truly dire circumstances and would benefit more from leaving their countries), but will probably have a harder time doing so because of the influx of illegal immigration.

 

[ace_of_something]

Oh yeah, My grandfather who fought for america in WWII after immigrating here, had lived in the country for 60 years then when he was in 91 fucking years old INC (ICE wasn't invented yet) came, found him, and put him in jail for a week until stuff was sorted out. Basically, his immigration papers were so old they were lost. A big part of the problem was that my Grandfather was Sami and wasn't really from any specific country this made information gathering difficult.

We were all really pissed off.

 

[nepheleim]

I made it through the first page and have decided that a lesson must be taught here.

Illegal Immigration =/= Immigration in general.

I don't know if anyone means to do it, but the Original Topic is about illegal immigration, and there are mounds of answers about immigration as a generality. Even the poll answer to make the naturalization process easier has nothing to do with illegal immigration as criminals (which is what an illegal immigrant is the moment they violate existing law) cannot apply for citizenship (generally speaking).

 

[nepheleim]

Sorry, double posted.

 

[Hyperrhombus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFD1FIPH6nM

I'll just leave that there...
Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

(CAPTCHA of the day: expect stoning) heh.

 

[Tselis]

Being American I can't comment on other countries. As for my opinion for my own country, I think we should end all oversees military deployments (with the exception of those stipulated by treaty). I think we should use the troops to secure our borders, and then put more funding into reforming the path to citizenship. I don't mind people immigrating, so long as they do it legally. As for anchor babies, let the babies stay, absolutely, they are legal citizens. Deport their parents the day after the birth and adopt the kid out. There are many people who would adopt these kids. It might sound cruel, but if these people are going to bring a new person into the world for the sole purpose of illegally entering a country, then fuck'em. They don't deserve the rights they are after if they aren't willing to pursue them properly. Honestly, the kids will probably grow up in better homes in foster care or adopted homes then the homes of the people who would use them so cruelly.

 

[Eisenfaust]

in australia we have a massive illegal immigration problem... naturally, being an island, everyone comes here on rickety old boats, and are thus dubbed "boat people" which seems... insensitive? i'm not sure

nevertheless, as far as i know every single boat is intercepted (it's harder to land in a boat than just sneak across a border), and every immigrant is automatically remanded to mandatory detention to allow for processing (are they actually asylum seekers or are they terrorists in disguise). naturally, with the huge amount of "boat people" coming in every month, and the war-torn/bureaucratically disasterous state of many of the nations they are fleeing from, processing them takes time.

the opinions are (generally, holisitically) split into:
- keep them in detention for as long as is necessary (the current system)
- release them all! it's bad for them, who cares if they're terrorists!

now, admittedly, i am of the former opinion. it may seem harsh, but the facilities are nice (supposedly), asylum claims are processed as fast as possible, and the genuine asylum seekers can be released and allowed to do whatever it is they want. this is probably a good thing, even from the perspective of the asylum seekers... if suddenly we free all those in mandatory detention, and even one turns out to be a terrorist/affiliated with a terrorist in any way, the link to "boat people" and "terrorism" will be cemented in the media, and all previous "boat people" will be rounded up and shipped off, screwing the very large majority of them who are in no way affiliated with terrorism

and yet, those interred in these facilities still protest. hunger strikes, arson, riots, self-harm, clambering up on the roof with signs and not coming down for days on end... this is what annoys me. granted, in cases where there are legitimate concerns, fine, protest and we'll fix it. but the "my claim is taking too long! incidentally, the fact that this facility is much nicer that the country i am fleeing from, as evidenced by the fact that it's taken you this long to go through our government for our information, should be completely ignored!" stuff? no. just... no. one step too far. you're subject to the same rules and processes everyone is, for the greater good of the entire country including you and your fellow asylum seekers. you don't show up at someone's house for dinner unannounced, then protest because the meal is taking too long to be cooked...

 

[dystopiaINC]

my god, so much stupid >_<
fun fact for the people in this thread, if you work you pay taxes either through payroll tax or sales tax. the only way to avoid pay roll tax is to get paid in cash under the table which is only even remotely viable with some seasonal farming jobs, everywhere else illegals are counted as employes of the company (since anything else makes it very likely for the company to get shut down for fraud)
another fun fact, most illegals can't get welfare since you need a valid SSN.

thats were the anchor babies come into play, they are legal citizens and can get welfare

yeah what about the hundred of illegals you could find at a home depot down south you hire them fore a day to build fence pay then a hundred bucks, do they pay taxes on that? nope.