Poll: Injustice of the Permaban

[Godhead]

Moderation is only too harsh when somebody popular is banned or they didn't get their infraction successfully appealed. The moderation is a lot better here than a lot of other places and I feel that it's actually become better over the years.

 

[Lictor Face]

Just stay away from touchy threads and you'll do just fine. If you want to tempt yourself towards a ban by joining a discussion on religion and rights on the INTERNET ( oh god ) that is your problem.

Also, regardless of whether this site is moderated improperly or not , the Escapist is still one of the more civil forums i ever had the privilege of joining. Do you know what Factpile is? God damn that site is a rampant hole of jackassery.

Also, everyone has different definitions of what is " proper " and " improper ". I don't care if this site is moderated by a monkey in front of a converted toaster. If the site is free of trolls and bigots. It has been moderated. Regardless of " proper " or " improper " method used.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I've only had one strike and I'm pretty sure it was justified... I can't remember now. Low content.
One thing only- I'm not too sure what qualifies as low content. It says in the CoC that answering a question simply is too low, but how long is long enough? Cheers
I don't think the mods are too harsh though, haven't seen many that I've thought of as unjustified.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Dear GOD, yes.

Because I will see so many people get away with the most condescending, inflammatory, and just outright insulting posts and yet they won't get so much as a warning while benign posts or parody posts or posts from people who actually back up what they're saying without insulting anyone get some long-term people who just make this forum a better place banned

If you see a post requires attention, report it! We can't do our jobs if nobody reports posts that break the forum rules!

I've had people send me inflammatory messages and the mods did NOTHING when I sent them copies of the messages. They even said they would do nothing

How along ago did this happen? Remember that things are a lot different from a few years ago. New mods, new community manager etc. If it is still an issue then please feel free to PM me your concerns.

It's also extremely hypocritical how people are modded sometimes. There are more than a few contributors to the escapist (in terms of producing videos and articles) who have admitted to piracy and even encouraged (though indirectly) it. Yet if someone even brings it up as something they've ever done or wanted to do at all then they immediately get a mark against them on the forum health meter

I don't get it.

Why can they say it but we can't?

From the Code of Conduct;

"Regardless of what some of our content creators may say, do or provoke within their videos or articles, this does not give members the ability to act in the same way. They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be."

I still look at it is a a form of hypocrisy that irks me, but it's not like I can do anything about it.

As for reporting, I've reported at least 10 people who have directly insulted me or someone else, and only ONE of them has been given a warning, and I had to PM a mod directly to get them to take action.

:/

 

[HalfTangible]

(Personally I would set up a system to ban for a set period of time for each infraction that carries over as bonuses to future bans (First ban is one week, second is a one week ban again but you get a second week, etc etc) but hey, I'm not a programmer and I don't own a forum, it's probably harder to do than it sounds.)

Others have pointed out we have this, but what amazes me is how often I've seen this sort of thing espoused on here (in the past, not specifically this thread). It begs the question: does nobody read the Terms/posting guidelines/etc on here?

And as I said, what this forum has isn't exactly what I was talking about. But let's not get into it here.

It'd be kind of like a group of Americans coming forth and expressing the desire to change America into some sort of representative democracy.

No offense intended.

It's more like demanding a direct democracy: a similar but different system

But then again, considering America's current state of affairs your suggestion is far too likely a possibility.

(Spoken as a Texan)

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

One thing only- I'm not too sure what qualifies as low content. It says in the CoC that answering a question simply is too low, but how long is long enough? Cheers

It's true that just answering something if often not enough.

But if you explain the reasoning behind your answer (the "why" behind it, "why is that your answer?"), you'll be fine.

maybe i'm just blind..but when did you become a redguard? i swear i saw you less than a month ago as just a regular pleb like us...

 

[Eleuthera]

One thing only- I'm not too sure what qualifies as low content. It says in the CoC that answering a question simply is too low, but how long is long enough? Cheers

It's true that just answering something if often not enough.

But if you explain the reasoning behind your answer (the "why" behind it, "why is that your answer?"), you'll be fine.

maybe i'm just blind..but when did you become a redguard? i swear i saw you less than a month ago as just a regular pleb like us...

Topaz ascended to the lofty heights of moderatority last Friday, along with Copper Zen and Escapegoat. For the time being they are sub-forum mods for Off-Topic, Religion and Politics and Gaming discussion respectively.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

One thing only- I'm not too sure what qualifies as low content. It says in the CoC that answering a question simply is too low, but how long is long enough? Cheers

It's true that just answering something if often not enough.

But if you explain the reasoning behind your answer (the "why" behind it, "why is that your answer?"), you'll be fine.

maybe i'm just blind..but when did you become a redguard? i swear i saw you less than a month ago as just a regular pleb like us...

Topaz ascended to the lofty heights of moderatority last Friday, along with Copper Zen and Escapegoat. For the time being they are sub-forum mods for Off-Topic, Religion and Politics and Gaming discussion respectively.

ah i see.

i saw his cerberus avatar and was starting to question where his loyalties lied...

curious, did you guys add more redguards because of recent talks of why their weren't more mods or was that just a timely coincidence?

 

[Eleuthera]

*snikt*

Timely coincidence mostly, a few of the mods old didn't have the time to commit to moderation any more and stepped down. And these guys were tagged to replace them. Though the selection is done by Nasrin and the staff, so it might have been in the works a bit longer.

 

[jackinmydaniels]

As somebody who hasn't really been using this site for longer than a few months, I have to say that the mods seem to do a fairly decent job at keeping things under wraps without being too overbearing. I think low content posts don't necessarily deserve a strike, maybe a warning the first time or something? I dunno I'm just talking out of my ass I guess.

I'll put it this way, I have yet to see a user be banned or probated without just cause, typically when I click on the post that got them said punishments, it seems completely and totally justified.

 

[Namehere]

I'm voting (NO). I suspect in some of my few posts over certain issues I might take too seriously, I might have crossed some of the forum lines... But given the circumstances and the heated nature on both sides of the discussion, the mods never removed my posts or warned me. They let it slide and it wasn't like a huge back and forth of 'F u man' or something like that, it was just a heated and rather harshly articulated series of posts. But no warning, no ban or anything certainly. So I think the mods are doing an okay job. They don't jump the gun.

I've seen mods so desperate to keep a hand on things in certain forums that they basically kill the place. It's like a ghost town. Threads forever being deleted and posts tossed off and people told not to do things. It's bad when every forth post in a thread is from a moderator or is a removed post. And I've seen those threats. Usually, after short order, you get about four missing posts a thread... because there's twenty people left. That's not the Escapist, they're doing a good job I think. Of course, I'm no expert on moderating forums so I wouldn't use this as some sort of endorsement. To me they seem to exercise judgment and discretion in good measure for the most part.

Some of the permanent bans can be a little harsh. I say this not as a critique of the forum moderators but of the system itself. It's a shock jock age we live in and some of the banned personalities liven things up a lot, seems unfair to benefit by them then punish them. Perhaps that aspect should be looked into. I'm not that sort of a poster though, by any length or measure, so I honestly can't say.

 

[HellbirdIV]

I voted "No" because some time ago I got a strike against me for a very angry and indignant comment made at someone whose opinion hit me where it hurts the most (Specifically, bigotry towards people like those I consider my close friends), and despite this I'm currently listed as having a clean record. From this I can only reckon that you have to be quite the asshole to rack up infractions at a rate to get yourself permabanned, because the above incident wasn't all that long ago.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I think it's misguided. I recently had to appeal a suspension to Nasrin because a) it was unjustified, and she agreed with me and b) my "appeal" never actually made it to the moderator team. Because hamster wheels aren't turning fast enough, or something.

Then there's the fact that different mods will moderate differently (duh) leading to 0 consistency over the website as a whole.

Tlr, needs an overhaul.

captcha: Full Stop.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Daystar is correct. We can't wrath posts for low content if they're part of a quote chain.

Two people are having a conversation, and, like it or not, that still counts towards the discussion.

Nice to know. There's never been enough clarity on things like this.

Captcha: Fava Beans. <-- wtf?

 

[ResonanceSD]

Daystar is correct. We can't wrath posts for low content if they're part of a quote chain.

Two people are having a conversation, and, like it or not, that still counts towards the discussion.

Nice to know. There's never been enough clarity on things like this.

Yep. The point is, if two people are quoting each other back and forth, whether they be arguing (hopefully civilly) over something, or two friends having some friendly banter, either way it's not really something we want to discourage (by way of the low content rule at least).

From my one terrified peek into the subforum "forum games", this rule seems to be the one thing that saves everyone in there from being banned.

 

[Treblaine]

Really you don't just accidentally make 8 low-content posts. One or two before you understand the rules, maybe.

remember the 6 month reset... that's 8 infractions (and there are so many different types) over a 4 year period.

FOUR YEARS!! You just have to average 2 mistakes a year and you are out.

I got three warning in rapid succession before I could even react to the first warning, it was right after the low content rule was brought in. It's not just low content posts.

Some things aren't in the forum rules at all. I got one for making an it "personal"... when the person I was replying to put their entire case in personal terms. Another for being rude, not swearing at nor verbal abuse, simply referring to another user in a different thread as being "stupid". One before that for saying how disgusted I was about someone gloating about shoving an elderly woman off a bus. I kid you not. Though the sanction was reversed, the 6 month timer was still reset.

You need to be so careful of everything you say, no matter what you are replying to, you can't harbour a single ill thought... not once.

You don't just reset the 6 month timer for going down a warning block, but get one step closer to perma-ban.

I can see how the tokens system can condition people to be nice... but the 6 month lag time is too long, you forget what you were sanctioned for.

 

[Treblaine]

If you have 10 infractions over the years, then either you're getting them often enough that they aren't being removed, or you've not been here that long at all.

It may not improve the Escapist, but it doesn't hinder it either.

But it's not 10 infractions in a year... it can be 8 infractions over 3-4 years... an infraction about every 6 months.

Because each infraction "token" doesn't have a 6 month span, it's when the timer (to roll back one forum health block) is reset after every warning.

And people get rather mixed messages. Moviebob, Yahtzee and JimQuisition all take highly confrontational stances, regularly swear and belittle people. You can't be surprised if a small proportion of that is reflected in the forums. They rant and they flame and they don't warn their audience not to emulate them in the comments box advertised below.

How do you know it doesn't hinder escapist... it really depends what escapist is supposed to be and if it is as the title suggests, escapism... encountering such a pervasive docking system is disheartening. It's hanging over you always.

In fiscal terms, how many people avoid the forums entirely not wanting to get invested only to be kicked out... that's a lot of eyes not looking at banner ads. The code of conduct is not comprehensive, I constantly find myself having to PM new forum users not to say or do certain things for fear of reprimands. I've seen more than one leave for other forums with similar rules but more lenient punishment system.

I don't think you should downplay the importance of your moderation with "It may not improve the Escapist" as you work does help, but the system, not the human moderators, limits the good you people can do. I thing WHAT you moderate for I correct, I don't think the system fits well with that though.

You know how long it takes for a shattered femur to heal?

2-3 months.

Why is it twice as long to "recover" from a low content post or being rude (like the stars of the site are) or any number of other things.

 

[JEBWrench]

If I've been registered here for four years and never moderated, then no, clearly, the moderation is not too strict.

It's like a personal best for me.

 

[Yureina]

I've had my issues with mods on this site in the past, but that had more to do with their specific actions than anything with the ruleset itself. I've never had a problem with the site's rules, and they aren't hard for me to keep to since I am not in the business of insulting people. So long as the mods themselves are well-policed so that they don't just toss out warnings, or "marks" as they seem to be called now, at a whim because they don't like someone or for some other absurd reason, then I don't really see a problem.

 

[Marter]

Yep. The point is, if two people are quoting each other back and forth, whether they be arguing (hopefully civilly) over something, or two friends having some friendly banter, either way it's not really something we want to discourage (by way of the low content rule at least).

And yet I got a low content warning when quoting someone!

That isn't a conversation. Otherwise the people just saying "this" when quoting someone would be okay. And we don't need that.