Poll: Is abortion murder?

[Ham_authority95]

Shouldn't this be in the Religion and politics section?

 

[Naeo]

I'd say it depends. First few weeks of pregnancy, definitely not. Last few, definitely so. Middle chunk, dunno/can't say.

 

[grimsprice]

Its not until 24 weeks that brain function has a probability of existing (some start slightly later or earlier but not by much)

Even if it did have brain function, exactly what kind of function are we talking about? A snail as a cerebral column that controls its actions. It has neurological function. No one(Outside PETA and vegetarians) complains about a plate of escargo.

I have no problem with abortion. I'm even a little iffy on abortion during the third trimester. A newborn doesn't even have the neurological development to process sensory information. Alive? Well, yes, and independantly so, but until it can survive on its own, I wouldn't really call it alive. I'd call it a parasite.

So if someone is born mentally retarded to the point where they don't hear or see or think in any way that would allow for interaction with the outside world, you'd just put them down?

That seems very cold.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I'm not pro abortion, I'm pro choice.

Anyway, pretty much this.

 

[BGH122]

You could give me some argument about weather or not a fetus is "alive" at what stage, but since that is a matter of opinion rather than scientific fact and my opinion is that its alive from the start then abortion is in my view of the concept murder.

Because you'd have to show how something lacking sentience or consciousness is 'alive'.

So if someone is born mentally retarded to the point where they don't hear or see or think in any way that would allow for interaction with the outside world, you'd just put them down?

That seems very cold.

Yes, in fact, I argue that all defective humans (serious failure to function adequately) be aborted. If they're already born then it's our duty to see them through to death, as well as their life can be lived, but if they're unborn then they should not be born.

 

[Vuljatar]

Well, obviously it depends, but in the circumstances where abortions are currently legal in the majority of civilized countries, it is not murder.

 

[fletch_talon]

I personally think it is murder. Lumps of flesh don't have ears and eyes, and they don't swallow and have the ability to kick you while in the womb.

I'm pretty sure in places where abortion is legal, there are laws as to how far developed a foetus is allowed to be in order to be aborted.
I'm not 100% sure the baby is kicking that early in the pregnancy, however even if it is, it almost certainly has no degree of conscious thought, it simply reacts to stimulus.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

You just opened a can of worms. There is going to be some angry words exchanged over this topic...again...

...I don't know what I feel about it... I haven't taken a side yet.

 

[Eldarion]

You could give me some argument about weather or not a fetus is "alive" at what stage, but since that is a matter of opinion rather than scientific fact and my opinion is that its alive from the start then abortion is in my view of the concept murder.

Because you'd have to show how something lacking sentience or consciousness is 'alive'.

Prove to me that it in fact lacks sentience or consciousness(you can't). Thats assuming I accept those as qualifications for life.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Its not until 24 weeks that brain function has a probability of existing (some start slightly later or earlier but not by much)

Even if it did have brain function, exactly what kind of function are we talking about? A snail as a cerebral column that controls its actions. It has neurological function. No one(Outside PETA and vegetarians) complains about a plate of escargo.

I have no problem with abortion. I'm even a little iffy on abortion during the third trimester. A newborn doesn't even have the neurological development to process sensory information. Alive? Well, yes, and independantly so, but until it can survive on its own, I wouldn't really call it alive. I'd call it a parasite.

So if someone is born mentally retarded to the point where they don't hear or see or think in any way that would allow for interaction with the outside world, you'd just put them down?

That seems very cold.

It does seem very cold, and considering that I only have one eye left that only half sees(I have one blind eye and very poor vision in the other(Technically, I shouldn't be driving >.>), I acknowledge I'd be one of those. But think about these people that we save who are disabled in some severe way when they're upwards of 70 or 80 years old, can't take care of themselves, can't control themselves, and look at the lives that they've led, lives that haven't been filled with much of anything due to their disabilities, is it more humane to let them go or to make them struggle through a world they can barely navigate, much less participate in.

Is it cold? Yes. Is it cruel? Well, I don't know. We certainly wouldn't put an animal through all that, and why do we spare the animal and make the human suffer?(And to be honest, isn't this side tracking from the topic?)

 

[Mr. Gency]

If abortion is murder then so is masturbation...

and if that's so, I commit genocide daily.

 

[grimsprice]

Is it cold? Yes. Is it cruel? Well, I don't know. We certainly wouldn't put an animal through all that, and why do we spare the animal and make the human suffer?(And to be honest, isn't this side tracking from the topic?)

Certainly not, its a delving into your humanity. To see why you hold such a cold, utilitarian approach to living.

I can fully understand the stone cold machinery of your logic. And why, ultimately, its the best policy. But my evolutionarily developed compassion distorts my take on the situation; and makes me feel terrible bad for you.

 

[Omikron009]

No. Until there's significant brain function it's not alive.

 

[BGH122]

You could give me some argument about weather or not a fetus is "alive" at what stage, but since that is a matter of opinion rather than scientific fact and my opinion is that its alive from the start then abortion is in my view of the concept murder.

Because you'd have to show how something lacking sentience or consciousness is 'alive'.

Prove to me that it in fact lacks sentience or consciousness(you can't). Thats assuming I accept those as qualifications for life.

Here you go [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate#Fetal_pain_debate].

The foetus can't even feel pain until the third trimester. I think a large part of the problem here is that anti-abortionists are seeing 'consciousness' as a meta-physical thing, like the soul, which it isn't. Consciousness requires a well-formed brain and since pain receptors aren't even formed by 24 weeks we can presume complex reasoning isn't either.

 

[Hashime]

Yes, from the moment of conception it is human.

 

[zehydra]

I personally think it is murder. Lumps of flesh don't have ears and eyes, and they don't swallow and have the ability to kick you while in the womb.

yeah I pretty much have to agree with you here. Once it reaches a certain stage, there is little difference between a sleeping baby and a fetus.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Is it cold? Yes. Is it cruel? Well, I don't know. We certainly wouldn't put an animal through all that, and why do we spare the animal and make the human suffer?(And to be honest, isn't this side tracking from the topic?)

Certainly not, its a delving into your humanity. To see why you hold such a cold, utilitarian approach to living.

I can fully understand the stone cold machinery of your logic. And why, ultimately, its the best policy. But my evolutionarily developed compassion distorts my take on the situation; and makes me feel terrible bad for you.

I think sometimes compassion requires you to put your feelings aside and do what you don't want to for the betterment of another, and if that includes ending them to spare them a lifetime of hardship they can never overcome, then it's what needs to be done.

Cold, yes. Utiitarian, you better believe it. I'm proud to be one. When I get dress, I walk out the door with all the tools I need to survive should I end up somewhere and can't get home. I also think it gives me a different perspective. And don't feel bad for me, I certainly don't. Compassion is a wonderful thing, and a terrible vice that can lead to both great pleasure and terrible pain.

 

[Oomii]

No, it isn't consciences, just a bunch of cells.

 

[RMcD94]

100% yes.

Just as living is murder. (Cells die in your body all the time)

tl;dr

Any cell is alive. Yes.

tl;didread

However, I don't want to vote yes, because that'll seem like I'm against abortions, which I'm not. I'm pro brutally slaughtering the cells up until the umbilical cord is cut (that's right, even at 9 months outside the mother). Then that's murder too. But for some reason that's unlawful murder.

Let's just say I'm for abortions before I get into killing independent multicellular organisms.

 

[soapyshooter]

Technically, it's not alive, so no.

How is it now alive? Did you know that by week 4 the baby already has a heart and a circulatory system? And the heart starts beating by week 5?

If it was taken out of the mother it would die. So technically it isn't human or anything viable for that matter. It is not murder. Once the baby can survive outside of the mother it becomes illegal to abort or kill because that point it does become murder.