Poll: Is it acceptable for a future director to not watch the star wars movies?
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Any director worth hiring would have watched Star Wars, at least in my opinion...
No-one is saying you have to *like* the Star Wars movies, but no-one can deny they have a huge place in popular culture, and an even bigger place in movie culture. If you're seriously interested in becoming a director they're exactly the kinds of movies you should watch, just to improve your understanding of film in general.
No-one is saying you have to *like* the Star Wars movies, but no-one can deny they have a huge place in popular culture, and an even bigger place in movie culture. If you're seriously interested in becoming a director they're exactly the kinds of movies you should watch, just to improve your understanding of film in general.
Why would you start with the second film when watching a trilogy? That might be one reason you didn't like the film since a lot of stuff happens in the first to set up the rest of the story. Another is likely the generation gap since pretty much every film these days needs at least a bajillion CGI editing effects, whereas Star Wars utilised the ultra expensive airfix-model-on-a-string method.
I don't think it is mandatory for a budding director to watch anything, but knowing how culturally significant films of the past were made and directed is sure to give you some ideas. Even if those ideas are things to avoid. If anything, watching films that make you bored should be a good exercise for you as you can think to yourself how you might improve the film. But not Super Mario Bros. Spare yourself that blight on humanity.
I don't think it is mandatory for a budding director to watch anything, but knowing how culturally significant films of the past were made and directed is sure to give you some ideas. Even if those ideas are things to avoid. If anything, watching films that make you bored should be a good exercise for you as you can think to yourself how you might improve the film. But not Super Mario Bros. Spare yourself that blight on humanity.
The important part for a director isn't what happens, but how it's done. Movies are much more than only plot.OZ7O said:
That said, I sincerely doubt there's any established director out there who hasn't seen Star Wars. Excluding Bollywood - they really are a world apart.
I've seen all the Star Wars films and I thought they all sucked. But, I saw them. While you don't NEED to watch these to be a director, you should watch them because good directors are in touch with pop culture. You need to watch a bunch of films, just so you can see what they do, how they do it, why everyone likes it, etc.
I mean, you should study older films like Psycho, along with Cabin in the Woods. Both are great horrors and both have a lot to teach. It doesn't matter how "dated" they are.
I mean, you should study older films like Psycho, along with Cabin in the Woods. Both are great horrors and both have a lot to teach. It doesn't matter how "dated" they are.
The answer is a simple, objective no on nearly all levels of filmmaking.
First off, there isn't a single film school worth its placement program in the industry that doesn't analyze the hell out of Star Wars, but let's pretend somebody managed to keep themselves sheltered. If the director wants to do mainstream movies for major studios, they're going to encounter hundreds of people that worship (Hollywood's oversimplified version of) Joseph Campbell's A Hero with a Thousand Faces as the go-to plot structure and that translates to ripping off Star Wars. Going into these conversations with "I've never seen those movies" is a good way for them to be passed over for other directors that would have a better understanding of the project's goal.
Even if they're not making a heroic story, admitting they haven't seen such a cornerstone of film culture would be kind of like a physicist admitting they've never read anything by Isaac Newton. The people with the money are not going to hire somebody that is so intentionally dedicated to keeping their horizons limited.
I could maybe see some Z-grade mumblecore [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblecore] filmmaker going for some hipster cred by claiming they've never seen Star Wars, but that circle of film culture is barely above kids making home movies.
First off, there isn't a single film school worth its placement program in the industry that doesn't analyze the hell out of Star Wars, but let's pretend somebody managed to keep themselves sheltered. If the director wants to do mainstream movies for major studios, they're going to encounter hundreds of people that worship (Hollywood's oversimplified version of) Joseph Campbell's A Hero with a Thousand Faces as the go-to plot structure and that translates to ripping off Star Wars. Going into these conversations with "I've never seen those movies" is a good way for them to be passed over for other directors that would have a better understanding of the project's goal.
Even if they're not making a heroic story, admitting they haven't seen such a cornerstone of film culture would be kind of like a physicist admitting they've never read anything by Isaac Newton. The people with the money are not going to hire somebody that is so intentionally dedicated to keeping their horizons limited.
I could maybe see some Z-grade mumblecore [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblecore] filmmaker going for some hipster cred by claiming they've never seen Star Wars, but that circle of film culture is barely above kids making home movies.
I'd say it really depends on the type of director you'd want to become.
If it's for a niche, other than science-fantasy, you can pretty much ignore them. What's much more relevant are the big names in that specific niche.
If it's in general you could ignore them but you'd be wise not to. They were hugely popular movies that established an IP that even today is still one of the most popular and well-known properties. If you have talent in directing you really should be able to see what made those movies so incredibly good and powerful, you don't have to agree with it, but you should be able to see it.
If it's for geeky/nerdy movies in particular then yes, you absolutely have to. Star Wars was big for the general public but for this subculture it was massively huge, it was defining. If you're incapable of seeing what's good about it then I don't really think you've got much of a chance to make it in this genre. Again, you don't have to agree on those points, but you do have to be able to recognize them.
If it's for a niche, other than science-fantasy, you can pretty much ignore them. What's much more relevant are the big names in that specific niche.
If it's in general you could ignore them but you'd be wise not to. They were hugely popular movies that established an IP that even today is still one of the most popular and well-known properties. If you have talent in directing you really should be able to see what made those movies so incredibly good and powerful, you don't have to agree with it, but you should be able to see it.
If it's for geeky/nerdy movies in particular then yes, you absolutely have to. Star Wars was big for the general public but for this subculture it was massively huge, it was defining. If you're incapable of seeing what's good about it then I don't really think you've got much of a chance to make it in this genre. Again, you don't have to agree on those points, but you do have to be able to recognize them.
You seem to be under the impression that future directors should only watch things that entertain you.
I personally didn't care for Vertigo, but I'm aware that it's a great movie for study due to its cinematography, concept and execution (a friend of mine actually wrote about it for a university final). Star Wars is also good for study, because it affected so many movies made after it.
Hell, even freaking Birth of a Nation was made in 1915 and is extremely uncomfortable to watch today (white people in blackface, the KKK are the good guys, etc...) but it's studied endlessly nowadays because it was the "first blockbuster". So much of what you watch today owes its existence and filming style to a racist silent film in the 1910s.
I'll cut you some slack because you're fourteen, but come on. Surely you can understand why we study the things that were on the road to where we are now. Ever read a book from before 2000? Hell, ever taken a class on, say, mathematics or physics or even English? The standards that we hold today were discovered CENTURIES ago.
I personally didn't care for Vertigo, but I'm aware that it's a great movie for study due to its cinematography, concept and execution (a friend of mine actually wrote about it for a university final). Star Wars is also good for study, because it affected so many movies made after it.
Hell, even freaking Birth of a Nation was made in 1915 and is extremely uncomfortable to watch today (white people in blackface, the KKK are the good guys, etc...) but it's studied endlessly nowadays because it was the "first blockbuster". So much of what you watch today owes its existence and filming style to a racist silent film in the 1910s.
I'll cut you some slack because you're fourteen, but come on. Surely you can understand why we study the things that were on the road to where we are now. Ever read a book from before 2000? Hell, ever taken a class on, say, mathematics or physics or even English? The standards that we hold today were discovered CENTURIES ago.
There is SO much more to a movie than its major plot points.OZ7O said:
I gather from the title of the thread and your posts that you want to be a director later in life, and want to know if movies where you know the general idea are worth watching?
Honestly, if I owned a franchise there's no way in hell I'd give any notable job with it to someone who thought the only points of value in a movie were its major events.
For someone who (seems) to want to be intimately involved in the creation of movies, you (seem) to have no respect for the -vast- majority of what actually makes a movie.
As Marty Scorsese puts it, "watch the classics", "study them" and "learn from them". This is a no brainer to me.
I'd say that, yes, they should watch it their name is J. J. Abrams and is making another Star Wars movie. I grew up watching them on VHS but I don't think I'm blinded by nostalgia (that rarely happens with me). I'm only 18 but I love these movies. The universe is interesting, the stories are well told and some of the characters laid the foundation for new tropes (the peasant who's really a badass, the cocky smuggler, the smart princess, etc.) and they're just fun to watch.
When we watched the Lord of the Rings trilogy in movie studies, the only thing we DIDN'T care about was the story and ending.OZ7O said:
If all you care about is plot, be a writer, not a director. (And even then, I doubt you'll be a good writer.)
I don't think the Star Wars movies were soooooooo well directed that they should be a staple for all would be directors.
They're good movies but not directing mainstays.
I'd say the top 3 movies an aspiring director should watch should be
Shaun of the Dead: Hands down best directed comedy I've seen of all times. Especially the first time the zombies show up, the mirror of the earlier tracking shot of Shaun walking through town is superb.
Life of Pi: I know it just came out, but Aang Lee is the god of shot composition. Every single frame of that film looks like a professional photograph that took hours to set up.
and
Any movie by David Fincher
Probably The Social Network or Zodiac: He makes sitting around and talking look awesome, and dialog heavy scenes and exposition scenes are some of the hardest shots to hold an audiences attention through
But looking at the list all those movies came out in the 2000's But as far as old movies I'd put a top 3 directing staples at...
Treasure of the Sire Madre
12 Angry Men
The French Connection.
Or conversly just go to film school, you'll probably learn all about shot composition, ways to avoid shot revers shot, mirror symmetry
They're good movies but not directing mainstays.
I'd say the top 3 movies an aspiring director should watch should be
Shaun of the Dead: Hands down best directed comedy I've seen of all times. Especially the first time the zombies show up, the mirror of the earlier tracking shot of Shaun walking through town is superb.
Life of Pi: I know it just came out, but Aang Lee is the god of shot composition. Every single frame of that film looks like a professional photograph that took hours to set up.
and
Any movie by David Fincher
Probably The Social Network or Zodiac: He makes sitting around and talking look awesome, and dialog heavy scenes and exposition scenes are some of the hardest shots to hold an audiences attention through
But looking at the list all those movies came out in the 2000's But as far as old movies I'd put a top 3 directing staples at...
Treasure of the Sire Madre
12 Angry Men
The French Connection.
Or conversly just go to film school, you'll probably learn all about shot composition, ways to avoid shot revers shot, mirror symmetry
The films are dated, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. They were a big deal in their time, like a huge deal. Star Wars: A New Hope broke box-office records immediately and became one of the first "blockbusters" as we know them today. From what I understand people were so crazy over the movie they would watch it and then immediately go back to the box-office to purchase another ticket to see it again. Not long after the movie was released, Harrison Ford went to a music store to buy an album and a bunch of fans swamped him, half tearing his shirt off.OZ7O said:
So yeah, that is the kind of pandemonium we're talking about here. And it wasn't just fans that loved it, critics loved it as well. Yeah the special effects look bad by our standards, which means maybe you have trouble now resonating with it but it was good enough for people back then. Plus, it really blew open the door for other sci-fi and fantasy movies on the big screen. It proved that sci-fi isn't just for the weird kids who read comics in their parent's basements, anymore.
As for why it resonated with so many people, I wasn't alive when it released either so I can't really explain this one. It follows the basic hero's journey formula to a T but is still populated with the right characters to keep it interesting, and the music is superb, but apart from that I really can't pin down what caused so many people to love it. I think it's safe to say, for most anyway, it's not nostalgia. I don't know if I want to say most Star Wars fans weren't around when it was released, but I'd say a significant portion don't remember and it is still gaining young fans so I think it's safe to say it isn't just nostalgia.
And lastly, if you're getting the LotR trilogy done in 9 hours then you aren't doing it right. Watch all 3 extended edition movies, which is around 12 hours, and tell me that's too long
Or better yet, dive in and read the books. They covered a lot of ground in the films, but you wouldn't believe all the stuff they had to cut. Tom Bombadil, the scouring of the Shire, oh and the years that passed between when Frodo gets the ring and when he actually makes it out of the Shire.And as for your question about future directors, I think people who become directors tend to love film so inevitably they will end up seeing it at some point in their life. If not for the want of learning, then for simple interest as a film-buff. And I think there are certain things to be learned from Star Wars, it certainly encapsulates a genre and the interests of the time it was released. It's an historic film, and all fillmmakers should be well versed in film history. I don't think they have to like it or model their work on it, but they certainly should understand the techniques used to make it and why it had the affect it had. And a film certainly shouldn't be discounted as being valuable for learning just because it has bad special effects. Otherwise, we'd be discounting pretty much every film made until the mid to late 90s. And while Citizen Kane wasn't filmed in HD, 3D, 4K supervision that still doesn't keep it from being regarded as the greatest film ever made.
That'the wrong question to ask. If you really want to be a director one day you should take the opportunity to watch every movie you can get your hands on. The studio movies as well as the indie movies. The High Budget ones as well as the low budget ones. The arthouse as well as the grindhouse. I don't think there's a single movie an aspiring director couldn't learn at least one single thing from. And if it's just one single shot or one specific performance.
I think people really like the universe.OZ7O said:
I was never much into star wars, but I'm looking forward to the next one.
Hopefully there'll be people with light sabres and magic powers, cool looking designs and places, a good script, and high quality conversion of that script into film.
Is that too much to ask?
Also does anyone have suggestions as to what TV shows have cool looking designs and places, a good script, and high quality conversion of the script into film?
Preferably ones I can stream off of the internet.
Well, I know that I couldn't get into black and white films until I was about 18, and I couldn't stand westerns until I was about 21, and now I think they're both great. As you get older, you start looking for different things in film. It becomes rewarding in different ways, escpecially if you have a particular interest in cinema; you gain an appreciation for pacing, realism, and subtlety. Some may argue, but I think the original Star Wars trilogy had a satisfactory handle on each.OZ7O said:
You might also be surprised to learn that Citizen Kane has more special effect shots than the first Star Wars - used in ways you'd never expect.
Can't argue with that. Elegant too. Everytime I see something floating/hovering/being moved telekinetically in a modern movie and is clearly CGI'd, I think of the floating pen from 2001 - stuck to glass in front of the camera and waggled around.
Still though, that last space battle in ROTJ, which you wouldn't have gotten to yet, is pretty gorgeous.
I suppose by this point you've probably already heard of the RedLetterMedia prequel reviews (anytime somebody talks about the prequels without mentioning them, a puppy somewhere dies). When you finish the series, follow it up with those videos; it articulates extremely well (in ways that nerd-rage never could) what the prequels did so wrong, as well as what the orginal trilogy did so right, and is also a pretty outstanding work of editing unto itself. Moviebob actually said it best, "It's a whole semester of film school crammed into about 4 hours". Just, uh, make sure you have an afternoon to spare - and expect some lude, dark comedy in the margins.
I'm not sure the last director watched the Star Wars movies.
In terms of making a ton of money, it serves as a lesson of what can be done.madwarper said: