Poll: Is it wrong to Fight?
- Thread starter AlphaLion
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I don't like fighting. I will always try and talk myself out of a fight if someone decides they want to hit me. Even saying sorry for whatever it is I have not done. But if that all fails and I know something is going to happen, running isn't generally an option in most cases. Especially if the odds are against you when they bring their friends into it.
My opinion then is. Hit first, hit hard and make sure they don't get back up again. If that means fighting dirty so be it. If I kick him in the knee done right they wont be able to get back up. When he drops however he is getting another kick to make sure. And most self defence classes worth a damn will teach you the exact same thing. If he goes down and he can get back up make sure he doesn't.
It is fine to say you would do this, this and this. But until you have been in that situation. You have no idea. Your sole mental being at that point is, I need to survive this with the least damage, you do what needs to be done.
Squaring up to someone though will always end up with you getting badly injured. Always try and back out and only when you know you have to fight. Make sure your hits count. You might only get a couple in before you get hit. So you need to make sure you do as much damage to them as quickly as you can.
Which is part of the problem as well with all the adrenaline in your body. You can take a fair amount of punishment before things start to hurt. Which means you need to break bones hence the knees / shins are great points to go for. As they can't get back up if their legs don't work.
Last fight I was in was many years ago now. I didn't throw the first punch but I did throw the last one. I came away with a chipped tooth, 2 broken ribs and a some slight trauma around my head. My eyes where no longer white but filled with blood and stayed like that for a while. I got away. Only because I Kicked 2 of the attackers knees and managed to run. After getting hit hard before I did a thing. I didn't know about the broken ribs until hours later. And the adrenaline had worn off. And I had relaxed. And then the pain kicked in and boy did it kick in.
Anyway life story over with. My conclusion is, while it is never a good thing to fight. Sometimes there is just no other way, and in that situation your life can depend on it. So many people these days carry weapons. If there is a group of them a few hits, which are normally totally random once the gang mentality kicks in, can kill quite easily. once you are down you are going to be hit harder, and by more of them. Better to hit them first even the odds up slightly and then run. Chances are some of them will try and help their buddies as well, helping your escape further.
People who look for fights are scum. Defending yourself is just a survival instinct.
My opinion then is. Hit first, hit hard and make sure they don't get back up again. If that means fighting dirty so be it. If I kick him in the knee done right they wont be able to get back up. When he drops however he is getting another kick to make sure. And most self defence classes worth a damn will teach you the exact same thing. If he goes down and he can get back up make sure he doesn't.
It is fine to say you would do this, this and this. But until you have been in that situation. You have no idea. Your sole mental being at that point is, I need to survive this with the least damage, you do what needs to be done.
Squaring up to someone though will always end up with you getting badly injured. Always try and back out and only when you know you have to fight. Make sure your hits count. You might only get a couple in before you get hit. So you need to make sure you do as much damage to them as quickly as you can.
Which is part of the problem as well with all the adrenaline in your body. You can take a fair amount of punishment before things start to hurt. Which means you need to break bones hence the knees / shins are great points to go for. As they can't get back up if their legs don't work.
Last fight I was in was many years ago now. I didn't throw the first punch but I did throw the last one. I came away with a chipped tooth, 2 broken ribs and a some slight trauma around my head. My eyes where no longer white but filled with blood and stayed like that for a while. I got away. Only because I Kicked 2 of the attackers knees and managed to run. After getting hit hard before I did a thing. I didn't know about the broken ribs until hours later. And the adrenaline had worn off. And I had relaxed. And then the pain kicked in and boy did it kick in.
Anyway life story over with. My conclusion is, while it is never a good thing to fight. Sometimes there is just no other way, and in that situation your life can depend on it. So many people these days carry weapons. If there is a group of them a few hits, which are normally totally random once the gang mentality kicks in, can kill quite easily. once you are down you are going to be hit harder, and by more of them. Better to hit them first even the odds up slightly and then run. Chances are some of them will try and help their buddies as well, helping your escape further.
People who look for fights are scum. Defending yourself is just a survival instinct.
Barggles is correct. Everything he said is true. But I would have added, using any thing as a weapon is better then nothing. If you see a rock use it. I just so happen to tone my first weapon(my body) over a few years. I am now type of guy you are afraid is gonna hit you. Until, you get to know me that is. I've been in more then enough fights to tell you so. If I fight with my friends it's never serious and sometimes i'm just showing off some wicked moves. Today was a very different encounter(i;ve had problems before).
But as a good tips. hit up on the chin and down on the nose(NOT UPWARDS, you don't want to kill them). The chin hit can knock someone out, and downwards on the noce creates huge amount of pain. I am reading up on more "lethal" hand-to-hand combat. I want to join the military after university. I would die for my country! I am a patriot to the core.
It's the second reason why I brought up the whole subject of fighting.
But as a good tips. hit up on the chin and down on the nose(NOT UPWARDS, you don't want to kill them). The chin hit can knock someone out, and downwards on the noce creates huge amount of pain. I am reading up on more "lethal" hand-to-hand combat. I want to join the military after university. I would die for my country! I am a patriot to the core.
It's the second reason why I brought up the whole subject of fighting.
The Dalai Lama agrees!darkstone post=18.73851.812572 said:
"But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg."
Source: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010515&slug=dalai15m0
Had a bud the other day got punched in the back of the head when he TRIED TO WALK AWAY from a potential fight. So he beat up -that- guy, but then his two mates joined in and my bud lost blood and money. If my bud had RUN after getting punched in the back of the head, I think the twats who picked on him would not have felt discouraged from the same lousy behaviour in future, so maybe he was justified in retaliating, maybe not - nobody left happy. I'm sure that you - Alphalion - feel sullied by reacting to them. I think that you with your training and your focus, should be able to devise better solutions than simply beating them at their own game. If defending yourself is what you had to do to get out of the situation then fair enough, but you shouldn't let it rest there, you know who they are, you can bring their behaviour into the light of their circle of family and peers, police if necessary, anonymously if you must. You've wounded his ego, you may have made him angrier and meaner - a threat to the next poor bastard he vents it out on.
I personally think there is nothing wrong with fighting for sport (i.e. sparring) if both combatants agree on set terms, in a suitable setting ( a gym or karate class/arena) with proper gear if applicable. Now when I say fighting for sport, I am talking about martial arts, and hand to hand. Basically I am saying it is ok as long as it is just training, and both or all involved or willing.
When I spar with friends, both of us go all out. Not to say we are trying to injure one another, obviously, but we won't pull punches, as it helps us should we get caught were we would have no choice, with your life on the line you can't afford to hold back.
Fighting should always have a cause. Normally that amounts to only fighting in self defense.
Now I am by no means muscular, I am probably a beanpole, but I have had a bit of the basics. In other words, I really have to rely on technique if I were to fight. Fortunately I have never had to use it, and hopefully never will, but I enjoy combat. I like kickboxing, MMA, took a beginner's course in Brazilian judo, and I participate in S.C.A. light combat. I have my own suit of full body leather, with a leather brigadine chest piece, although my 18 gage spartan gladiator helm is too thin, I need 14 gage steel. But like I said, although I enjoy combat, it has to be with a purpose or cause, that cause can be for fun, recreation, but it has to be the sporting kind. In other words, I will never pick or start a fight. I won't fight unless it is necessary.
Now I pose a question. Do you believe it is alright to step in to help someone who is being attacked, and obviously in danger and doesn't know how to defend themselves?
When I spar with friends, both of us go all out. Not to say we are trying to injure one another, obviously, but we won't pull punches, as it helps us should we get caught were we would have no choice, with your life on the line you can't afford to hold back.
Fighting should always have a cause. Normally that amounts to only fighting in self defense.
Now I am by no means muscular, I am probably a beanpole, but I have had a bit of the basics. In other words, I really have to rely on technique if I were to fight. Fortunately I have never had to use it, and hopefully never will, but I enjoy combat. I like kickboxing, MMA, took a beginner's course in Brazilian judo, and I participate in S.C.A. light combat. I have my own suit of full body leather, with a leather brigadine chest piece, although my 18 gage spartan gladiator helm is too thin, I need 14 gage steel. But like I said, although I enjoy combat, it has to be with a purpose or cause, that cause can be for fun, recreation, but it has to be the sporting kind. In other words, I will never pick or start a fight. I won't fight unless it is necessary.
Now I pose a question. Do you believe it is alright to step in to help someone who is being attacked, and obviously in danger and doesn't know how to defend themselves?
We're not talking killing or serious harm so yes.
If we are talking killing and/or serious harm then no, you've turned from defending to attacking.
If we are talking killing and/or serious harm then no, you've turned from defending to attacking.
I believe it's great to defend yourself, and perfectly alright to enjoy martial arts (as a martial artist, I BETTER think it's okay.) I've never been in a real fight, and I intend to avoid one as long as I can/be a dirtbag underhanded fighter so I don't get shiv'd. Still, I don't think anyone should enjoy real fighting too much. Blood lust can be very seductive and powerful, especially when the person knows (or think they know) that they can easily crush the opposition.
So, you were right in this situation and probably most similar ones, but I'd try to avoid seeking fights out or enjoying them too much. Good job on schooling some punks.
So, you were right in this situation and probably most similar ones, but I'd try to avoid seeking fights out or enjoying them too much. Good job on schooling some punks.
In self defence it's alright, also i don't find it wrong to hit girls either, again, in self defence.
Like one time, one girl decided, ahh i don't like bobby, so she got like..20 of her friends to corner me, she hit me, a few times, before i got pissed and made her faceplant the wall.
I don't chose fights, but if someone tries starting eon with me i'll end it.
So yeah, in self defence it's fine, if you start it, depends why your starting it.
Like one time, one girl decided, ahh i don't like bobby, so she got like..20 of her friends to corner me, she hit me, a few times, before i got pissed and made her faceplant the wall.
I don't chose fights, but if someone tries starting eon with me i'll end it.
So yeah, in self defence it's fine, if you start it, depends why your starting it.
Dude doesn't support the troops. He deserved whatever super Saiyan ass whuppin' you gave him boyo. For dang sure.
Me and my high school buddy Will used to call that going "full gangly."
Defending yourself or someone else from physical attack is in no way abhorent. Society these days likes to train people to be a complete push over pussy but there is nothing wrong with trouncing the fuck out of someone who is out to inflict physical harm on you.
Tricky situation if you don't know all the details. Often a bully that fucks with the wrong person will end up in the "in danger and can't fight worth shit" catagory. If you know the guy is just getting beaten for his proverbial lunch money though, then by all means step in and kick some ass.
Now having said all that, do remember that it's always best to avoid physical confrontation. In the original post, if all the guy had done was make fun of the OP's beliefs, then the op would have been wrong to beat that guy up. It may have felt good to do so, but it would have been wrong. However, since the dirtbag took it to a physical level then the OP was totally in the right to lay the bully out. Self-Defense has the word defense in it for a reason.
Speaking of which: http://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Shots-Ambushes-Other-Lessons/dp/0873644964
Fantastic self-defense book. It doesn't explain any fancy moves, but instead discusses the mentality needed behind actual streetfighting, and explains why so many of the preconceived notions your average person has about fighting will get you killed. Most importantly though, it really helps convey just how senseless fighting is and why you should just do your best to avoid a fight.
I don't know, I don't think it's quite that simple. I would just make an exception for untrained persons who cause death or serious harm to unprovoked assailants. People who are not Bruce Lee cannot adequately judge the magnitude of the harm they inflict, and should not attempt it. Special laws are in place for those who are Bruce Lee, preventing them from using lethal or impairing force if they are capable of inflicting only temporary incapacitation. Failing to do so results in a charge of Manslaughter in the U.S. While I can't accept excessive force, ever, untrained individuals can cause death in the act of acceptable self-defense. They do not have the expertise to avoid it- hence the necessity for a legal "self-defense" defense.Knight Templar post=18.73851.812957 said:
Add weapons and especially guns, and it's that much more complicated.
Self-Defense is always allowed. If somebody attacks you, you can fight back until they back off. I'm a year 12 (That's highest year level of Australian schooling) and I'm one of the most Hard-As-Nails year 12s there are. I'm short, but I'm built like a mac truck and can if not stand up to, then crush anyone who attacks me. I never look for fights and constantly avoid them. The "Cool" kids at my school always try to start fights with me to try and prove they are tough. I always walk away, unless they swing a punch. If they swing, I swing back. Self-defense is always allowed. If I see more than one person attacking a mate of mine, I'll jump in and protect them. If there's only one, then they can handle it. I think that's the only way to go about it. Look after yourself, look after your mates, and never start it.
Self-defence, man. Perfectly justified. Besides he was being abusive towards you too so he deserved that whoop-ass you dished out.
I say it all depends on the situation. Self defense of course. If some one insults my woman in front of me in some heinous way, it is ass whipping time. If someone I know is getting attacked and it looks bad I will help. Protecting my kid from adults. That sort of stuff. I try to never start one, but if I am in a fight I always try to end it.
The funny thing about discussions like this that happen on the Internet is anyone here could be lying out their ass. Every one is some bad assed Martial Artist. Sure, right. The more bad ass you claim to be, the more you sound like you are full of crap. "I'm like Chuck Norris" yada yada yada. To put it bluntly, I do not believe half the people on the Internet who claim any sort of Martial Arts training of any kind. Hell, I don't believe half the people in real life face to face. So many fools take some sort of Taekwondo and all of a sudden they are Billy Bad Ass. It is hilarious.
The funny thing about discussions like this that happen on the Internet is anyone here could be lying out their ass. Every one is some bad assed Martial Artist. Sure, right. The more bad ass you claim to be, the more you sound like you are full of crap. "I'm like Chuck Norris" yada yada yada. To put it bluntly, I do not believe half the people on the Internet who claim any sort of Martial Arts training of any kind. Hell, I don't believe half the people in real life face to face. So many fools take some sort of Taekwondo and all of a sudden they are Billy Bad Ass. It is hilarious.
Well, I can't prove it, but I started with Tae Kwon Do, fenced for two years, did about six months of Aikido, lots of general self-defense stuff on my own, and I've been doing a mixed MA program for at least a year or two now. My field of expertise is weapons. I'm not saying I'm actually a good fighter, but I find your accusation that I (and others) are probably lying rather insulting.axia777 post=18.73851.813151 said:
Self defence is fine, him going out of his way to cause harm isn't cool.
All it shows is that someone can't use their head to get the better of another person and they believe violence is some sort of be all to end all and debate/situation. Fools.
All it shows is that someone can't use their head to get the better of another person and they believe violence is some sort of be all to end all and debate/situation. Fools.
well defending yourself is right, considering the fact your attacker should have been able to identify the change in your physique and possibly your demeaner.
How ever be wary of going over the top, i defended myself against attack but due to the fact i drew blood on my attacker i was charged with Grevious Bodily harm. I had no witnesses or evidense to confirm that my attacker had attacked me first, also i didn't believe in filing assault charges. it's not the thing i would do. you attack me, i will fight back, so you better be ready for the consequences.
As for the doubters from the hit in the balls, some martial artists when adrenaline is pumping are able to transcend all pain. Myself included. i once didn't know i had been gashed in the leg until after the conflict and i felt fluid running down my leg, thinking it sweat i wiped it away. i happened to look at my hand, now covered in blood. strangly enough the doctor never stitched it, to this day i dunno why. 9inch long 1/4inch wide, down to the bone for 3inches. ( screwdriver )
So while i agree with your morals and such i warn you, be wary about retaliation as it may bite you in the butt one day if your attacker comes off worse then you do.
I always suggest pain lock submissions, sit on the buggar then call the cops. Explain to them he attacked you and you defended yourself by putting him in that position. The cops will probably get a good laugh out of it.
How ever be wary of going over the top, i defended myself against attack but due to the fact i drew blood on my attacker i was charged with Grevious Bodily harm. I had no witnesses or evidense to confirm that my attacker had attacked me first, also i didn't believe in filing assault charges. it's not the thing i would do. you attack me, i will fight back, so you better be ready for the consequences.
As for the doubters from the hit in the balls, some martial artists when adrenaline is pumping are able to transcend all pain. Myself included. i once didn't know i had been gashed in the leg until after the conflict and i felt fluid running down my leg, thinking it sweat i wiped it away. i happened to look at my hand, now covered in blood. strangly enough the doctor never stitched it, to this day i dunno why. 9inch long 1/4inch wide, down to the bone for 3inches. ( screwdriver )
So while i agree with your morals and such i warn you, be wary about retaliation as it may bite you in the butt one day if your attacker comes off worse then you do.
I always suggest pain lock submissions, sit on the buggar then call the cops. Explain to them he attacked you and you defended yourself by putting him in that position. The cops will probably get a good laugh out of it.