Poll: Is Jigsaw a good guy? SAW movie series possible spoilers

[Yokillernick]

This has been bugging me for quite some time as I don't know what to make of Jigsaw.

The original Toby Bell one, amazing actor by the way, not the other ones. So in my opinion Jigsaw is a good guy as he helps people gain a new appreciation of life and sometimes saves them from their vices e.g he stopped Amanda doing drugs.

Another example in SAW IV, when the rapist was given the two buttons which would lower icepicks into his eyes, he offered the man a chance at redemption. So Jigsaw would either end the thing that allowed him to do evil, his eyes as without eyes he couldn't see so he couldn't rape anyone or let him get killed in which case he did a good thing again. Toby Bell, never actually kills anyone, as they all have the chance to redeem themselves, so the rapist could have saved himself.

Another example would be Dr. Gordon. He has a family with a child but still he cheats on his wife with some girl. By doing the test in SAW Jigsaw helps remind Dr. Gordon how important family is and that he shouldn't take them for granted.

So basically what I am trying to say is that Jigsaw is not a bad guy because he tries to teach criminals or people who had taken life for granted by i.e doing drugs and whatnot the value of life and tries to help them rectify their mistakes. He never kills them as they all have a chance of getting out alive.

Hoffman and Amanda are just killers who don't care about helping people, so we are not going to talk about them.

If most of what I wrote seems to be in random order is because I am writing my points as they are coming to me.

So do you agree that he is a good guy or am I completely crazy not to see that he's a complete lunatic ?

 

[Ryotknife]

he kills people in a horrendous fashion, their last moments are pure terror. I do not see anything noble about him. He is a monster, possible worse than the monsters he imprisons. It is sad that he is dying, but unfortunately that event has snaped something in his mind.

he forces/manipulates people into murdering each other for freedom. Plus he attacked an entire police assault force.

 

[Yokillernick]

he kills people in a horrendous fashion, their last moments are pure terror. I do not see anything noble about him. He is a monster, possible worse than the monsters he imprisons. It is sad that he is dying, but unfortunately that event has snaped something in his mind.

he forces/manipulates people into murdering each other for freedom. Plus he attacked an entire police assault force.

That's the thing though he doesn't kill them. He gives them a way out of those traps along with a new view on life. Oh and if you mean the police squad in SAW 2 that got electrocuted on the stairs, that wasn't his fault. The guys shouldn't have been busting in his place. All he did was ensure some security. Finally all he people he captures have done something bad at one time or another and got away with no punishment, so if he does like you say kill them, doesn't he then get rid of the bad people?

 

[Shadowstar38]

He "would" be a good guy if he adjusted his methods. Helping people appreciate life is a noble cause, but the way be does it is extreme.

Being kidnapped and told you're about to die unless you mutilate yourself does more psychological damage than help. And if that person lives, they know Jigsaw is out there doing things to other people. They'll be constantly looking over their shoulder up until he gets captured.

 

[GiantRaven]

No. The correct answer is no.

The whole 'he didn't technically kill anyone so he isn't a murderer' is complete bullshit.

A good character to be sure, but definitely not one with a noble cause. More the ravings of a deranged madman I feel.

 

[Ryotknife]

he kills people in a horrendous fashion, their last moments are pure terror. I do not see anything noble about him. He is a monster, possible worse than the monsters he imprisons. It is sad that he is dying, but unfortunately that event has snaped something in his mind.

he forces/manipulates people into murdering each other for freedom. Plus he attacked an entire police assault force.

That's the thing though he doesn't kill them. He gives them a way out of those traps along with a new view on life. Oh and if you mean the police squad in SAW 2 that got electrocuted on the stairs, that wasn't his fault. The guys shouldn't have been busting in his place. All he did was ensure some security. Finally all he people he captures have done something bad at one time or another and got away with no punishment, so if he does like you say kill them, doesn't he then get rid of the bad people?

He gives them an impossible choice. If i had to choose between going blind or death? I may very well choose death (although it would depend on how i died).

Hell, if he just killed people who are criminals that is much more acceptable in my eyes. The way he kills people is twisted beyond belief. Kill a bad guy quickly, and at least you can say you are doing it for society. Kill them slowly and it is obvious that you care about only yourself and your satisifaction.

Now if you want to talk about morally suspect individuals who do dastardly things for noble (ish) reasons, i would say Light from Deathnote or Lalouche from Code Geass are better templates.

 

[Dogstile]

Its not really a choice if the alternative is death.

 

[Yokillernick]

Its not really a choice if the alternative is death.

Firstly to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities in this case the choices being live or death so the only way it wouldn't be a choice would be if they were stuck in an inescapable trap, so the choice would become die or die.

 

[Yokillernick]

yokiller, I say without any hesitation or hyperbole that you are a truly disturbed individual if you think that cops going into a crime scene dying is justifiable, even forgetting your justification of kidnapping and, yes, MURDER.

Jigsaw is very much evil.

It's Nic by the way and don't worry I'm sane. I don't think that the cops in SAW 2 died they just got knocked out by the electricity, but if they died then you are right there's no justification. Please give me an instance where he literally killed the person he kidnapped. The cops especially the Asian detective in SAW wouldn't have died if he wouldn't have chased Jigsaw. So what I'm saying is he didn't want to kill the cops and he didn't kill the people he kidnapped as they were given a choice. Besides most of his kidnapped victims were bad people anyway.

 

[DJ_DEnM]

He's as much of a good guy as the Sniper from Phonebooth is.

 

[Yokillernick]

Its not really a choice if the alternative is death.

Firstly to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities in this case the choices being live or death so the only way it wouldn't be a choice would be if they were stuck in an inescapable trap, so the choice would become die or die.

Right, that's like the choice of me putting a gun to your head and saying you need to give me everything you own or die and pretending you actually agreed if you hand stuff over.

Still a choice. I don't have to agree with it for it to be a choice. this "to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities" came from the online dictionary and it didn't mention whether you had to agree with it or not. I mean you make hard choices sometimes, choices you don't agree with like lie to someone or things like that right ?

 

[Yokillernick]

yokiller, I say without any hesitation or hyperbole that you are a truly disturbed individual if you think that cops going into a crime scene dying is justifiable, even forgetting your justification of kidnapping and, yes, MURDER.

Jigsaw is very much evil.

It's Nic by the way and don't worry I'm sane. I don't think that the cops in SAW 2 died they just got knocked out by the electricity, but if they died then you are right there's no justification. Please give me an instance where he literally killed the person he kidnapped. The cops especially the Asian detective in SAW wouldn't have died if he wouldn't have chased Jigsaw. So what I'm saying is he didn't want to kill the cops and he didn't kill the people he kidnapped as they were given a choice. Besides most of his kidnapped victims were bad people anyway.

So if someone holds a gun on me and says "get in the car or die", and I resist, then get shot to death, my would be abductor should be released because it was my fault I died?

Also, so you know, serial kidnapping is not exactly the sign of a "good" person either.

I understand what you are saying and of course the person shouldn't be released but a lot of the traps killed the people because of their inaction. They got killed because they were unable to help themselves. I know that it wouldn't make sense to say that if Amanda wouldn't have taken the trap off then she would have killed herself, Jigsaw would have still been responsible for that.

Now this is talking just about Jigsaw and not you random mugger, if Jigsaw told you to get in the car or die, then probably if you got in the car you would have passed his test, considering in your analogy "get in the car" means to what he instructs you to do.

But of course that doesn't mean he should be allowed to go free. All I'm saying is he has noble goals, like Shadow said, but his methods are extreme so "good" is used because I can't thing of a more appropriate word.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

On the mist basic level:

Teaching someone the value of life: a good thing.

Torture and murder of people you deem aren't living life to the full: a bad thing.

Killing more people who have done nothing wrong but risk exposing you in the same sort of torture traps: a very bad thing.

There is no way to justify the things people were forced to do. The traps were always too elaborate and malicious to be seen as ways of helping people, in fact they often pitted two or more people against each other, many people never had any choice or hope of survival, and most were for completely trivial things.

 

[Yokillernick]

Its not really a choice if the alternative is death.

Firstly to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities in this case the choices being live or death so the only way it wouldn't be a choice would be if they were stuck in an inescapable trap, so the choice would become die or die.

Right, that's like the choice of me putting a gun to your head and saying you need to give me everything you own or die and pretending you actually agreed if you hand stuff over.

Still a choice. I don't have to agree with it for it to be a choice. this "to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities" came from the online dictionary and it didn't mention whether you had to agree with it or not. I mean you make hard choices sometimes, choices you don't agree with like lie to someone or things like that right ?

So in other words you don't really get what people mean by a real choice. Could have just said that. But please say that instead of lying and saying it has to do with whether I agree with it or not.

Well that escalated quickly =P

But in all seriousness, Choice is having the possibility to pick from a number of outcomes. You can Choose to live or to die, so I am not lying to you. And for the record I said "I don't have to agree with it for it to be a choice. this "to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities" came from the online dictionary and it didn't mention whether you had to agree with it or not." So basically I said the opposite of what you are accusing me of saying I didn't it has to do with you agreeing with it or not, I said that you didn't have to agree with it for it to be a choice.

If anyone wants to pitch in and help me convince him that live or die is a choice please fell free.

 

[Yokillernick]

Its not really a choice if the alternative is death.

Firstly to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities in this case the choices being live or death so the only way it wouldn't be a choice would be if they were stuck in an inescapable trap, so the choice would become die or die.

Right, that's like the choice of me putting a gun to your head and saying you need to give me everything you own or die and pretending you actually agreed if you hand stuff over.

Still a choice. I don't have to agree with it for it to be a choice. this "to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities" came from the online dictionary and it didn't mention whether you had to agree with it or not. I mean you make hard choices sometimes, choices you don't agree with like lie to someone or things like that right ?

So in other words you don't really get what people mean by a real choice. Could have just said that. But please say that instead of lying and saying it has to do with whether I agree with it or not.

Well that escalated quickly =P

But in all seriousness, Choice is having the possibility to pick from a number of outcomes. You can Choose to live or to die, so I am not lying to you. And for the record I said "I don't have to agree with it for it to be a choice. this "to choose is to to select from a number of possibilities" came from the online dictionary and it didn't mention whether you had to agree with it or not." So basically I said the opposite of what you are accusing me of saying I didn't it has to do with you agreeing with it or not, I said that you didn't have to agree with it for it to be a choice.

If anyone wants to pitch in and help me convince him that live or die is a choice please fell free.

So in others words, not only can you not see the word 'real' and not understand common phrases people use, you can't even tell what I accused you of lying about. Try reading it again without coming to your conclusion before reading.

Trust me that's exactly what I thought when I read your last post. So let's start again. How more "real" can you get with a choice other than picking if you want either life or death. I think the way you are referring to it is that even though he says he offers them live or death, he only really offers them death or death as they mostly die. Is this what you are trying to say ? If that's not what you are trying to say then please go ahead and explain it to me why you think the victims don't have a "real" choice.

By the way, that's exactly what you acussed me of. I still don't see where I lied but OK.