"To be, or not to be: that is the question:Fluoxetine said:But eh, let's ignore all that and declare him "overrated".
I don't get it, in what way is not liking Shakespeare as much as others "arrogant"? I don't think anyone here is trying to say they could write better than him, so where's the issue?Fluoxetine said:The sheer arrogance of this board continues to amaze. Its relentless. Shakespeare is the best selling author of all time. Its estimated that over 500 billion of his works have been sold; works that influence every piece of fiction in our culture to this day. Not just plays and books, but games, movies, television, EVERYTHING.
But eh, let's ignore all that and declare him "overrated".
Unbelievable. Absolutely epic.
This is why Shakespeare is so well respected as a writer. The audiences did know what was going to happen as far as the ending. It was how plays were written. Watching a play wasn't about knowing the ending but in how the play took you there.OmniscientOstrich said:Hmm, I'd say Shakespeare wrote pretty banal stories but he wrote them very well, if that makes sense. The fact that you can determine what ending it will have by what genre it is (tradgedy; main characters die in the end, comedy; main characters marry in the end) and that if the tradgedy is named after a character(s), then that's the name of the character that kicks the bucket doesn't make for the most enthralling tales and the characters aren't particularly idiosyncratic or well rounded. But the manner in which he writes is very eloquent and evocative, that ensares and ensconces you, elevating a pretty pedestrian tale into something ensorcelling. Definately overrated, but then again, anything that's widely held up as the zenith of an entire medium is bound not live up to expectations.
Yea. I'm going to give the arrogant English teacher response to people that don't like him:floppylobster said:His plots might not always be the most intricate in comparison to other things (though they're still pretty good), but his characters are often unforgettable, and his poetry is unrivaled, still today. Many years ago I thought I might be able to do better. Many years later I have realised I'll never even come close.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
Perhaps when you get older and can appreciate what he's actually doing with his juxtaposition of words and imagery you will be in awe of what the English language is capable of. People write 15,000 word essays on just a few lines of his work. The works are so dense and layered with meaning within their context. And not just anyone - University professors among others. Do you really still think he's overrated?
I'll advise you as you as Kent advised Lear - "See better."
The presentation is absolutely imperative.Hollyday said:I LOVE Shakespeare. I agree that 'The Greatest Writer Ever' is a silly title to give to someone but for his works to have endured this long, and to have influenced so much, including the English language itself, is a huge achievement. Even his lesser known plays are interesting and well-written. My favourite ever scene from a play/tv show/film is from Richard III when the protagonist (who is also the villain) manages to persuade the widow of a man he's just murdered to marry him. It's an insanely witty but scary scene, where you can see the true depths people will go to in order to gain a bit of power. Scarier still is how relevant a lot of his stuff still is.
I also love the fact that his works can be read on so many levels. For example, his sonnets are held up as some of the most romantic, beautiful poetry ever written and are quoted endlessly in romance novels, romcoms etc. but the majority of them (the first 120) are actually written about a man in drag. If you read them back it's really obvious, and once you know it's really funny to see people in films quoting sonnets to prove their love, when actually all they're doing is repeating a really old joke about a bloke in a dress.
That said, schools tend to do a spectacularly crappy job of teaching his plays. I don't know many people who would say they like Shakespeare, just because trying to read The Merchant of Venice aged 15 is like torture. You'd think that a writer who includes a ridiculous amount of sex, violence, incest, murder, insanity and sticking two fingers up at your parents would be pretty popular with teenagers. Thankfully our teacher was amazing, and once acted out the entire plot of Macbeth through interpretive dance - funniest thing I've ever seen in a classroom and guaranteed to give you fond memories of the Bard.
Perhaps it's arrogant to suggest that an opinion based on the one time you got taught it at school (presumably badly) is valid against centuries of intense scholarly study. To say that he is overrated suggests that you know the value of Shakespeare better than all those people that have studied or performed his works to a high level.Lunncal said:I don't get it, in what way is not liking Shakespeare as much as others "arrogant"? I don't think anyone here is trying to say they could write better than him, so where's the issue?Fluoxetine said:The sheer arrogance of this board continues to amaze. Its relentless. Shakespeare is the best selling author of all time. Its estimated that over 500 billion of his works have been sold; works that influence every piece of fiction in our culture to this day. Not just plays and books, but games, movies, television, EVERYTHING.
But eh, let's ignore all that and declare him "overrated".
Unbelievable. Absolutely epic.
OT: I quite liked Richard the third and Macbeth, but I'm generally not into plays as a medium, so I'm not exactly a great fan or anything. There's plenty of things I enjoy a lot more then Shakespeare.