Because no-one should be told that they are wrong to enjoy a certain genre of video game. And no one should have to pay money for a game that tells them to stop enjoying the games they love.IronMit said:
Poll: Is Spec Ops: the Line overrated?
- Thread starter kanyewhite
- Start date
Yeah, a bit. The fans do rather like to bang on about it, huh?
I still liked it though. If nothing else, I appreciate what it was trying to do even if the implementation was on the sketchy side.
Also, I actually enjoyed the combat somewhat, even though I apparently wasn't supposed to, because, y'know... subveeeersive.
I still liked it though. If nothing else, I appreciate what it was trying to do even if the implementation was on the sketchy side.
Also, I actually enjoyed the combat somewhat, even though I apparently wasn't supposed to, because, y'know... subveeeersive.
You just need to take a step back and see it a bit more like art and bit less like a game. Spec Ops doesn't have fun gameplay as a prime goal, but critique on tropes and the FPS genre and players in general as it could only be delivered in an interactive medium and a self-aware audience. It's similar to a bit of the Stanley Parable (not gonna spoil it for you if you haven't played it, but if you have you should see the parallel).ShinyCharizard said:
Do traditional games mostly focus on having fun? Yes. Does this mean we should restrict the interactive medium to this goal? No. There's plenty of space for dramas, horror entries and fourth-wall-breaking critique in this medium.
I thought the narrative aspect was good, but the fact that fun gameplay was sacrificed to make it so was not a good decision my eyes. Also I a left wondering how much praise it would've garnered if it HADN'T come out when it did, amidst a torrent of modern military shooters.
In short: overrated, but still good.
In short: overrated, but still good.
Why not?ShinyCharizard said:
A developer is allowed to make a game with any message they damn well please.
(Y'know, unless they break the law. But somehow I doubt commenting on video game genre conventions breaks hate speech laws.)
Nobody "has to pay money for a game that tells them to stop enjoying the games they love" becuase they can, y'know... not buy the game.
I can understand your point. But to have to pay money in order to play a game that tells you not too enjoy yourself and to stop playing is something that I cannot support.Marik Bentusi said:
I feel like it's been hindered by hype. I went into the game expecting an emotional rollercoaster which would leave me alternating between crippling guilt and existential terror as I contemplate the nature of my own hobby. Instead, I feel emotionally underwhelmed by a better-than-average story that told of, to me at least, not a man performing terrible acts in the school of war, but a man dragged along from one impossible situation to another.
In short: I never felt like I'd chosen to do something awful. I felt like I'd been steered to do something awful. And it's hard to hate myself when I know I'm supposed to do something awful, that there was no way to avoid doing something awful. I spent five minutes scoping around looking for an alternative to the white phospforous scene. I found none. There was exactly one road left open to me. It was that or turn off the game and go outs-
Wait. Was that the point? Damn son, I retract my statement.
In short: I never felt like I'd chosen to do something awful. I felt like I'd been steered to do something awful. And it's hard to hate myself when I know I'm supposed to do something awful, that there was no way to avoid doing something awful. I spent five minutes scoping around looking for an alternative to the white phospforous scene. I found none. There was exactly one road left open to me. It was that or turn off the game and go outs-
Wait. Was that the point? Damn son, I retract my statement.
No. Spec Ops' message is not 'you are awful for playing for shooters', it's 'just stop for a second and think what you're doing'. Like all the best deconstructions, Spec Ops simply asks that you reflect on whether you're okay or not with the points it raises.ShinyCharizard said:
If, at the end of Spec Ops, you decided 'fuck you Yager, I like games that don't judge me for gunning down hordes of brown people', that's fine. It's a perfectly valid answer to the question Spec Ops poses. And if you feel that Spec Ops didn't deliver that message, or ask that question, that's fine too. Feel free to not like it.
But you have to understand that some of us did get smacked in the face by that message. I felt awful after I completed it. And after reading the suggestion that I always had a choice, as did Walker - the choice to just stop, it really made me think. So even if I didn't think the voice acting, pacing and atmosphere was excellent, I would praise the game to the high heavens simply because it got me to think, and reassess some of my opinions on videogame violence.
As to the question of it being 'stupid' for a game to make you not want to play it, that it's obviously a failure on the part of the developers... well, I'd explore that through movies - the go to comparison for stories, I guess.
Let me ask you, have you seen Schindler's List, or Gran Torino? If you have, did you enjoy them? Because I sure as hell didn't. The latter in particular made me very uncomfortable at times, but I still hold them up as absolute brilliant movies because I was still thinking about them hours afterwards. Yes, this analogy is horribly flawed, because there are so many other things about those movies to appreciate. The quality of the acting, the cinematography, the tightness of a script that isn't strung out by hours of pure gameplay. But my argument is that these are both films that are not meant to be 'enjoyed' as a two hour diversion with a bag of popcorn - they're points for consideration.
I don't think that posing the question 'do you really want to keep playing this?' is a failure on the part of the developers, so long as you realise the question is being asked and think about your answer. I suppose the big difference between games and movies is that going to see a movie that raises uncomfortable questions isn't a £40 investment.
And if you don't think Spec Ops challenged your preconceptions, or did it in a forced manner, that's fine. Just understand that everyone that did is going to praise it, and be wary of calling it 'overrated' just because it provoked a deep impact for a lot of people, but not for you.
Actually, it's a book and it's called Heart of Darkness. The main bad guy is even named after the author ;-pMacNille said:
Yes. Although I'd say if it is, TWD is equally if not more overrated as well. Mainly because both games were praised to the moon and back, and then to the moon again, on here especially, and I've joined in heavily in extolling the virtues of both games. And rightfully so on both accounts I would add.
However, neither Spec Ops The Line or The Walking Dead could live up to the levels of hype they have here (or anywhere for The Walking Dead, Spec Ops seems to be underrated everywhere else, which means I bang on about it more here =P )
However, neither Spec Ops The Line or The Walking Dead could live up to the levels of hype they have here (or anywhere for The Walking Dead, Spec Ops seems to be underrated everywhere else, which means I bang on about it more here =P )
People gain other things out of Spec Ops, it's not like it takes out the fun without a reason. Whether you like or dislike what you can get out of Spec Ops is up for taste and opinion of course, but regardless it shouldn't be judged by goals it didn't tackle. Of course ice cream doesn't taste like pizza and of course it's cold.ShinyCharizard said:
And how is this a known fact to people who buy the game. The whole point of the game lies in the story so I imagine people would go into playing it without spoiling it for themselves beforehandZhukov said:
It's making you question the games you love and asking you why you love them. I can still go immerse myself in any other FPSShinyCharizard said:
You are upset because the game is trying to make you think..and you don't like what one of those answers are. An answer you can reject by just shooting Konrad and saying you were just along for the ride anyway.
I was watching fox news the other day and they said 'No one should be shooting other people in video games'.
Your argument is just as extreme but just with a different view point.
You can't seem to comprehend that if you don't agree with the message it may still have a place for other gamers
I am not telling you, you should like the game or the message. It's when you go off on tangent and say no game should criticise this genre, all games should be fun (even though a lot of movie's are not fun).
As someone else replied to you. You need to step back and look at games just like books and movies: they can be a medium of communication, ideas and thought provoking. Games are evolving but don't be afraid the fun games will always be the majority...just like for movies.
This whole argument is going nowhere so I'm just going to have to agree to disagree.Marik Bentusi said:
It was a cool take on the Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now storyline, but I can't say it's a good game personally :-(
I'm not trying to tell anyone that they are wrong to enjoy the game. I'm merely defending my position as to why I dislike it and arguing the original notion that started this. When I was told this:IronMit said:
Why can they tell you what games to enjoy or not enjoy. That is not something I want in a game.bastardofmelbourne said:
This thread just reeks of...
It was a thought provoking game that stayed with people despite it's shortcomings.
Spunkgagelweewees have been doing that to themselves since MW2. Spec Ops is just stating the obvious (and preaching to the choir imo)ShinyCharizard said:
It's not literally telling you to stop playing the game, it's just that making that option known creates the parallel between Walker's actions and the player's.ShinyCharizard said:
As for not enjoying yourself well, what does it mean to have fun exactly? In games we typically get enjoyment out of levelling up, overcoming challenges, gaining points, winning, etc. Things that lead to happy feelings. Other mediums though aren't limited to happy emotions though, so why should games be? Does is Schindler's List a movie that makes you feel happy? It shouldn't be, yet it's a good movie, a movie that people want to watch despite the fact that it makes them feel sad, a negative emotion that you typically don't want to feel.