Poll: is that propaganda?

[idodo35]

...as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated)...

Is this for your bagrut? I'm trying to track down the video.

what video? and no the bagroot is high schools final exams this is just to decide where to send us for our millitary service...

 

[thespyisdead]

wow... 3 year of your life goes into military service... that, out right sucks( here it's only 0.5-1)

OT: has all the elements of propaganda: in essence it butters you up for army, so that you will not dodge your conscription, at least thats how i see it

 

[Giest4life]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

 

[TorqueConverter]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Of course it's propaganda, what else could it be? Who in their right mind would support compulsory military service without being brainwashed?

 

[zulu.fox]

There is a lot of "good" propaganda as well. In WWII era Britain , the government produced hundreds of posters to be displayed at public places to increase moral within the population. The most famous one is of course:

 

[Giest4life]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here. The distinction that we draw between honesty and dishonesty is reminiscent of the moral prejudice of philosophers which has dominated Western philosophy for far too long. There is nothing "good" in honesty, and conversely, there is nothing "bad" about dishonesty. Propaganda, which is necessarily dishonest, can bear sweet fruit.

I'm not arguing for a utilitarian view of propaganda, I'm just saying that propaganda is still dishonest even if it is used for some "noble" causes, such as fighting Nazis, racism, extremism, and environmental pollution.

 

[IndianaJonny]

...as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated)...

Is this for your bagrut? I'm trying to track down the video.

what video? and no the bagroot is high schools final exams this is just to decide where to send us for our millitary service...

The movie you mention in the OP; it would be nice to see it for ourselves. Just on a related but different topic, does Israel offer non-combat options in its conscription system (like Germany)?

 

[TorqueConverter]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here. The distinction that we draw between honesty and dishonesty is reminiscent of the moral prejudice of philosophers which has dominated Western philosophy for far too long. There is nothing "good" in honesty, and conversely, there is nothing "bad" about dishonesty. Propaganda, which is necessarily dishonest, can bear sweet fruit.

I'm not arguing for a utilitarian view of propaganda, I'm just saying that propaganda is still dishonest even if it is used for some "noble" causes, such as fighting Nazis, racism, extremism, and environmental pollution.

No misunderstanding, as I find your take on propaganda refreshing and is providing me with food for thought. I don't agree with some things, but I find the dishonesty and the morality of dishonesty argument of propaganda interesting. Carry on.