Poll: Is there hope for the DCEU?

[thepyrethatburns]

Meh.

Yes. Dawn of Justice is better than most "Marvel" movies bar Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool.

That is a low bar, but that is my honest to God opinion. It is OK. Barely. A Director's cut might be much better or even worse. Such is life.

It is not. In some ways, BvS reminds me of Age of Ultron. AoU was very good in the moments but a let down in the aggregate.

BvS is even more disjointed. Having just come from the movie, BvS seems like I watched 5 or 6 short films that were then mashed into one.

 

[WolfThomas]

In other news. The Flash-Supergirl crossover was just the best.

 

[Cicada 5]

Note: I have not yet seen BvS yet so I am going under the assumption that it's not great per reviews...

I'm probably about to slap my own forehead here but....what's the other DCEU movie? The only one released that I can think of is Batman V Superman unless Man of Steel counts I guess?

As for the question, I think DC made a huge mistake in it's movie setup. Marvel has spent almost a freaking decade building these movies into the financial juggernaut that is The Avengers. What works, what doesn't work, who does what, how does it connect; all the ups and downs were figured out in the beginning and now they've got it down to a freaking science.

It might still work out for DC (they're saying BvS made $170 million this weekend) since critically panned means nothing to studios as long as it makes money but I don't know how forgiving audiences will be if they start recognizing that the Marvel movies are generally solid and the DC ones kind of suck...

Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman are both in the DCEU, yes. The latter is a sequel to the former.

 

[Cicada 5]

Neither is Hawkgirl. And the reason why Cyborg is there is because he's in the New 52 Justice League.

What does Hawkgirl have to do with the DCCU?

And that's what I meant when I said 4 years, New 52 was back in 2011 (So I guess 5 years, but 2016 is still new I guess). Which was a very unpopular move and is something that still feels wrong today. Cyborg will always be a Teen Titan to me and pretty much all his fans.

Personally my dream Justice League is this:

Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonder Woman, John Stewert Green Lanter, the Flash, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Catwoman, Zatanna, and Hawkgirl.

Wow, that's a pretty packed team.

I agree with most of it, bar Cyborg, Catwoman, and Zatanna. I already said why I don't like Cyborg, I doubt that Catwoman would join a main team of the JL, and I think that Hawkgirl has the magic stuff covered in the team.

Also, why Robin?

Hawkgirl was on Justice League Unlimited as a founding member of the League despite her lack of iconography. I believe Samtemdo8's point is that lack of iconography is not in and of itself an obstacle to a character gaining popularity in an adaptation. Hell, this applies top the majority of the MCU. Prior to 2008, the only Marvel characters the public cared about where Spider-Man and the X-Men. Maybe Blade if you saw the first two movies. If I asked you who Iron Man was, you'd likely think of the Black Sabbath song and if I asked you if you knew who Captain America was, you'd think I was on drugs.

To take it back to Cyborg, he has exposure from the Teen Titans cartoon, which is more than most of the MCU characters had before 2008. And Cyborg doesn't have the stigma of being a joke like Aquaman has or used to have.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Neither is Hawkgirl. And the reason why Cyborg is there is because he's in the New 52 Justice League.

What does Hawkgirl have to do with the DCCU?

And that's what I meant when I said 4 years, New 52 was back in 2011 (So I guess 5 years, but 2016 is still new I guess). Which was a very unpopular move and is something that still feels wrong today. Cyborg will always be a Teen Titan to me and pretty much all his fans.

Personally my dream Justice League is this:

Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonder Woman, John Stewert Green Lanter, the Flash, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Catwoman, Zatanna, and Hawkgirl.

Wow, that's a pretty packed team.

I agree with most of it, bar Cyborg, Catwoman, and Zatanna. I already said why I don't like Cyborg, I doubt that Catwoman would join a main team of the JL, and I think that Hawkgirl has the magic stuff covered in the team.

Also, why Robin?

Hawkgirl was on Justice League Unlimited as a founding member of the League despite her lack of iconography. I believe Samtemdo8's point is that lack of iconography is not in and of itself an obstacle to a character gaining popularity in an adaptation. Hell, this applies top the majority of the MCU. Prior to 2008, the only Marvel characters the public cared about where Spider-Man and the X-Men. Maybe Blade if you saw the first two movies. If I asked you who Iron Man was, you'd likely think of the Black Sabbath song and if I asked you if you knew who Captain America was, you'd think I was on drugs.

To take it back to Cyborg, he has exposure from the Teen Titans cartoon, which is more than most of the MCU characters had before 2008. And Cyborg doesn't have the stigma of being a joke like Aquaman has or used to have.

Also I should have added Black Canaray in that list aswell since I forgot that she has a thing with Green Arrow and mabye Raven if I reimagine her as a Justice League character.

Anyway all I care about Zack Snyder DC movies at this point is the action. I mean the idea of seeing The Justice League vs Darkseid/New Gods with Zack's style of action.

Oh man shit's about to get rekt!!!

(The fight between Batman and Superman and the trio against Doomsday admittidely made me smile in stupid glee)

I'll just stick to Comic Books and Animation for the story/character driven, "brighter" version of DC heroes.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I hope so.

I'm not even a DC fan beyond seeing the movies; never picked up a DC comic in my life, watched some scattered episodes of Justice League, probably an animated movie or two, I am the greenest audience member for DC films, I just hope so.

Despite being the most surface of surface-level when it comes to DC, I want it to work for fans as well as myself because I like seeing DC films and the idea of them getting bigger is exciting.

Just so it's out there, I saw Dawn of Justice last night. I think it's alright, I don't think it's as bad as people keep saying it is but like I said, surface-level fan here so take that as you will. I thought it was okay, Ben Affleck's a good Batman, the action's alright, maybe I had built it up in my head too much. Really like Alfred though, I don't know what the general opinion of him is or if people are comparing him to Michael Caine or not, probably are but either way, I *really* like this Alfred.

Really, my opinion is a relatively common one and it's the most positive thing I've seen people say about it: It's alright, but it's main problem is it tries to do too much too fast and there's going to be a lot of suffering for that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Honestly, I think some people just want DC to fail. I've seen a lot of hate for Suicide Squad, and that movie actually looks good. I just saw BvS, and while it wasn't excellent, it certainly wasn't bad.
Besides, how many "bad" films has DC actually made? They knocked it out of the park with the Nolan trilogy, while Man of Steel, Watchmen, and BvS have done relatively well. The only real flop they've had was Green Lantern, which is also the only one that felt like it was trying to ape Marvel. All this doom saying is unfounded. DC is on shakier ground then Marvel, but it likely isn't going anywhere. In fact, I would say that the best things to come out of this whole super hero craze have been from DC.

I don't think people want DC to fail (except maybe for hardcore Marvel fans), they just want them to stop this obviously desperate attempt at catching up to Marvel. It's just all over Batman v Superman (from what I've seen of it). Like they know this shared cinematic bubble won't last forever, and they want to get to the Avengers sized money makers as quickly as possible before it ultimately bursts.

All DC needs to do is just take their time, and hire directors whose aspirations go beyond watching stuff go boom.

 

[Cicada 5]

...probably. Their movies are still going to make a bunch of money, though not nearly as much as they could if they had... well, competent direction. Or were made by people who gave a shit. That was my biggest problem with Man of Steel and BvS - they just didn't have heart. They felt like the latest Fantastic 4 movie, something just farted out to hold onto an IP rather than something anyone working on it had passion about.

Which is... well, whatever. It's no skin off my nose if they do fail, or if they manage to rally with Suicide Squad and pull themselves into something that isn't terrible. I stopped caring about the DCEU when they rebooted Batman for no reason (though I did like Affleck as Batman, despite how out of character the script made him) and decided to go down the 'dark and edgy' route we all got sick of during the 90s.

However, that said... if worst comes to worst and they end up rebooting the movies... I suggest they don't bother with the origin stories. It's fucking Batman and Superman, you don't have to introduce those ancient fuckers. My Grandparents weren't even alive when they came into existence, it's weird how we keep re-hashing Superman's beginnings every 5 years as if it isn't culturally ingrained at this point. 'Blah Blah, fell from Krypton, raised by Ma 'n Pa Kent, whatever, I'm going to punch Lex Luthor in the cock' should be how it goes.

How much money a movie makes is not automatically a sign of quality. If it were Michael Bay's movies would be considered high art.

 

[mduncan50]

How much money a movie makes is not automatically a sign of quality. If it were Michael Bay's movies would be considered high art.

Nope, but Michael Bay continues to get work despite most of his movies sucking because they make money. If a studio has to choose between making a good movie and making a profitable movie, I don't think that's a choice they would need to wrestle with too strenuously.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

How much money a movie makes is not automatically a sign of quality. If it were Michael Bay's movies would be considered high art.

This is something I'm well aware of and not something I was arguing against. The power of Brand names and Marketing trump 'art' in the Hollywood Realm.

It's just if the DC movies were competently made then they'd make more money then they currently are. It's why the Marvel movies keep making money hand over fist - they're at the very least competently made and directed, so they've got a good history of people going to see their shit because they're enjoyable.

Making money might not be a sign of quality, but quality can occasionally help making more money. Hence why Batman Vs. Superman is already tanking in ticket sales.

 

[Cicada 5]

How much money a movie makes is not automatically a sign of quality. If it were Michael Bay's movies would be considered high art.

This is something I'm well aware of and not something I was arguing against. The power of Brand names and Marketing trump 'art' in the Hollywood Realm.

It's just if the DC movies were competently made then they'd make more money then they currently are. It's why the Marvel movies keep making money hand over fist - they're at the very least competently made and directed, so they've got a good history of people going to see their shit because they're enjoyable.

Making money might not be a sign of quality, but quality can occasionally help making more money. Hence why Batman Vs. Superman is already tanking in ticket sales.

Avengers: Age of Ultron fell 59% in its second weekend, and The Dark Knight 53%.

The decline in China was 87% and 77% in the U.K, respectively.

BvS is only falling 71%. It's doing pretty great by comparison. And from what I hear, it's pulling in half a billion worldwide or close to that.

 

[mduncan50]

Wait, what is it great in comparison to? That's a much bigger drop than the other two movies you reference. What makes the huge fall a much bigger deal is that there was no new movies coming out that would have cut into their box office.
And Dawn of Justice is already above half a billion, but it is a long way away from the $800 mil needed to break even, let alone the $1 billion required for the movie to be considered a success.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Superman's actor plays World of Warcraft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmfFT2iORVg

And I like the man already

Replace the current actor of King Llane Wrynn with him!!!

And make him the next James Bond!!!

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Suicide Squad is the only one that has half a chance, in my opinion. And that's mainly because Snyder and Goyer aren't involved and it looks like they're at least trying to make it fun.

Apparently they did a bunch of re-shooting in January. From what I read those two Harely Quinn moments, where she steals the purse and when she says "that's not what the voices say." were literally the only two funny lines in the whole movie. Like that Tina Fey movie Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Suicide Squad was being billed and advertised as a comedy movie, when really its a grim dark serious movie with a couple of jokes.

So MAYBE it has a chance. In the same way a starvation diet two weeks before a wedding could potentially get you into the dress.

 

[mduncan50]

Suicide Squad is the only one that has half a chance, in my opinion. And that's mainly because Snyder and Goyer aren't involved and it looks like they're at least trying to make it fun.

Apparently they did a bunch of re-shooting in January. From what I read those two Harely Quinn moments, where she steals the purse and when she says "that's not what the voices say." were literally the only two funny lines in the whole movie. Like that Tina Fey movie Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Suicide Squad was being billed and advertised as a comedy movie, when really its a grim dark serious movie with a couple of jokes.

So MAYBE it has a chance. In the same way a starvation diet two weeks before a wedding could potentially get you into the dress.

Yeah, chances are you'll fit into that dress, and you will feel like shit the whole time.