Poll: Is treating women in Gentlemanly way Sexist?

[Maze1125]

Sexism is very simple to judge in cases like this.
Ask yourself "Do I treat women differently to men?" If the answer is yes, then it's sexist.

Do you hold the door open for both men and women, or just women?
Do you pull a chair out for both men and women, or just women?
Do you offer your jacket to both men and women, or just women?

Really, very very simple.

Would you do it for a fellow man? if not then it's sexist to a degree because you're treating women differently based on gender.

You can try and argue that you're only trying to be nice but if you're actually such a nice person why would you not extend those same courtesies to men?

Exactly.

 

[shintakie10]

So, afew people on here have called me sexist. What for? For suggesting that men treat women in a gentlemanly manner. Now, I can see that too a certain extent, like the whole "The world is unsafe for women, So I will keep you away from the world" style of gentleman-re IS sexist. However, what I was refering too was holding the door open for a women, pulling out her chair for her, offering her your jacket if it is cold, things like that. THAT is what I fail to see as being sexist.

So escapist, does the fact I want to be a gentleman make me sexist?

Well sexism is treating people differently because of their gender, so unless you do the same for men, yeah its sexist, is it bad though? Not really

All sexism is bad, no matter the reason for the sexism. Granted there are levels of how bad it actually is, but in the end its still bad.

OT, as said earlier if you only do it for woman, its sexist. Whether you justify it as being gentlemanly or not, its still sexism. If you don't plan to change because it was "how you were raised" then at least own up to it. Like me, I'm a sexist in that, unless its self defense, I wont punch a woman no matter how pissed she has made me however I'm not above hittin a guy in the same situation. She throws the first fist, damn right I'll fight back, but I wont initiate the fight.

 

[Timmey]

I voted no, male. Often I'll hold a door open for a girl or offer to carry something heavy for them. Whilst I would also extend the same courtesy to men I think I do it more to women. Though I think that to call this sexism simply undermines the meaning of the word, sexism should be about bigger and more important issues, not about common courtesy.

It isn't 'common courtesy' really. It's a warped sexist idea of what it is.

I mean seriously, it fits the idea of sexism perfectly. It doesn't undermine the idea, you just don't like that it applies to something you approve of.

Having just come from that Racist Aboriginals thread I wonder then do you think the same about affirmative action. it fits the bill of racism perfectly, yet society promotes it?

Is it so different from holding a door open for a women or offering to carry something heavy? its hardly degrading a women's rights is it. I just don't see the big problem with it. I understand you can call it sexism, guess that makes me sexist, yet I support women having equal pay and equal rights etc. etc. So what am I some sort of strange door opening heavy item carrying sexist ?

 

[Landshark1]

From what I've heard on the feminist forums awhile back, holding a door open for a women is only sexist if you're doing it because you believe that women are incapable of doing the same thing themselves. If you do it out of common courtesy and hold doors open for men and women, then you're being polite. The problem comes when someone assumes they know what you're thinking and accuses you of being a sexist, which is even more infuriating if they don't even know you to begin with.

 

[shintakie10]

I voted no, male. Often I'll hold a door open for a girl or offer to carry something heavy for them. Whilst I would also extend the same courtesy to men I think I do it more to women. Though I think that to call this sexism simply undermines the meaning of the word, sexism should be about bigger and more important issues, not about common courtesy.

It isn't 'common courtesy' really. It's a warped sexist idea of what it is.

I mean seriously, it fits the idea of sexism perfectly. It doesn't undermine the idea, you just don't like that it applies to something you approve of.

Having just come from that Racist Aboriginals thread I wonder then do you think the same about affirmative action. it fits the bill of racism perfectly, yet society promotes it?

Is it so different from holding a door open for a women or offering to carry something heavy? its hardly degrading a women's rights is it. I just don't see the big problem with it. I understand you can call it sexism, guess that makes me sexist, yet I support women having equal pay and equal rights etc. etc. So what am I some sort of strange door opening heavy item carrying sexist ?

Affirmative action exists to combat racism. Its not a perfect system because it is very easily abused and it is just a form of benevolent racism, but there ya go.

Also, again, it is in fact sexist to treat woman differently than men. Whether it is meant as a kindness or not, its sexist. It'd be better if you didn't do it whether by stoppin entirely or doin it for men as well (second is the better option), but if you're not then at least own up to that fact.

 

[Random Fella]

I suppose
The fact that I would try to not let a lady lift a finger, could be considered sexist
But I'd have to say I'm halfway on this, I don't like to call myself a sexist after all.
Anyhow, women and men are different, that's why they should be treated differently, but that is sexism and it is somehow wrong to think like that.

 

[Timmey]

I voted no, male. Often I'll hold a door open for a girl or offer to carry something heavy for them. Whilst I would also extend the same courtesy to men I think I do it more to women. Though I think that to call this sexism simply undermines the meaning of the word, sexism should be about bigger and more important issues, not about common courtesy.

It isn't 'common courtesy' really. It's a warped sexist idea of what it is.

I mean seriously, it fits the idea of sexism perfectly. It doesn't undermine the idea, you just don't like that it applies to something you approve of.

Having just come from that Racist Aboriginals thread I wonder then do you think the same about affirmative action. it fits the bill of racism perfectly, yet society promotes it?

Different idea behind it. It isn't merely due to their race. Not sure if I approve, but far from comparable in that it tries to treat a problem that plagues them more, in particular due to past and current racism against them.

Is it so different from holding a door open for a women or offering to carry something heavy? its hardly degrading a women's rights is it. I just don't see the big problem with it. I understand you can call it sexism, guess that makes me sexist, yet I support women having equal pay and equal rights etc. etc. So what am I some sort of strange door opening heavy item carrying sexist ?

Yes, it is different. There is no apparent reason to do so for only women.
It's hardly degrading is a poor excuse. That does not mean it doesn't neatly fit into the idea of sexism.
And what in the world is going on in your head? Did someone misinform you about the word sexist? Because it sure doesn't mean that someone has to be sexist in every single facet of their life.

My bad, I guess I associate being called a sexist as opposing women's rights and the like. I think we just disagree, I understand that it comes under 'sexist' because its different treatment of men and women, but I don't think it has negative connotations.

Raises flame shield

And sometimes a women might need a and carrying heavy stuff, I by no means claim women are weak or inferior, simply that I am stronger than most women and I don't see how it is a problem if I offer to carry something heavy for them.

 

[Maze1125]

I voted no, male. Often I'll hold a door open for a girl or offer to carry something heavy for them. Whilst I would also extend the same courtesy to men I think I do it more to women. Though I think that to call this sexism simply undermines the meaning of the word, sexism should be about bigger and more important issues, not about common courtesy.

It isn't 'common courtesy' really. It's a warped sexist idea of what it is.

I mean seriously, it fits the idea of sexism perfectly. It doesn't undermine the idea, you just don't like that it applies to something you approve of.

Having just come from that Racist Aboriginals thread I wonder then do you think the same about affirmative action. it fits the bill of racism perfectly, yet society promotes it?

Is it so different from holding a door open for a women or offering to carry something heavy? its hardly degrading a women's rights is it. I just don't see the big problem with it. I understand you can call it sexism, guess that makes me sexist, yet I support women having equal pay and equal rights etc. etc. So what am I some sort of strange door opening heavy item carrying sexist ?

How many people do you know who you'd call truly sexist? Who would try and take away a women's rights? Or would insist on paying women less?

Yet there's still a large amount of sexism in the country, you admit that yourself. So where's all the sexism coming from? There are clearly very few true sexists in the country, yet a whole load of sexism. Which seems to make no sense.

Well the answer is simple, the sexism comes from all of us. From all the little things, but when everyone does them, it adds up to a whole great load of sexism.
It's there aren't any laws keeping women down any more, the sexism that is left is the sexism in each of us, when people let the little bits of sexism go by and say that they're "not really a problem" that is the problem.

 

[loa]

Yeah it is, if you have to view it that strictly.
You don't have to flip tables though.
Just because there is a way to attach a negatively connotated term to something doesn't mean it's bad.
You should know better than to think broad, sweeping generalizations like that are anything but nonsense.

Besides, men are different from women.
The real world out there isn't an asexual place.
Nature kind of programmed us to be sexist, you know.
Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Timmey]

I voted no, male. Often I'll hold a door open for a girl or offer to carry something heavy for them. Whilst I would also extend the same courtesy to men I think I do it more to women. Though I think that to call this sexism simply undermines the meaning of the word, sexism should be about bigger and more important issues, not about common courtesy.

It isn't 'common courtesy' really. It's a warped sexist idea of what it is.

I mean seriously, it fits the idea of sexism perfectly. It doesn't undermine the idea, you just don't like that it applies to something you approve of.

Having just come from that Racist Aboriginals thread I wonder then do you think the same about affirmative action. it fits the bill of racism perfectly, yet society promotes it?

Is it so different from holding a door open for a women or offering to carry something heavy? its hardly degrading a women's rights is it. I just don't see the big problem with it. I understand you can call it sexism, guess that makes me sexist, yet I support women having equal pay and equal rights etc. etc. So what am I some sort of strange door opening heavy item carrying sexist ?

Affirmative action exists to combat racism. Its not a perfect system because it is very easily abused and it is just a form of benevolent racism, but there ya go.

Also, again, it is in fact sexist to treat woman differently than men. Whether it is meant as a kindness or not, its sexist. It'd be better if you didn't do it whether by stoppin entirely or doin it for men as well (second is the better option), but if you're not then at least own up to that fact.

I said in my original post I do it to both men and women. And you make a good point regarding racism.

 

[Lieju]

Yes, it is.

Women don't need any special treatment.
However, if you treat men the same way, it's not sexist.

I was always taught by my mom (I'm a woman), to be nice to people, hold the door open after you no matter who was coming behind you, give your seat in a bus to old people, and in general, be a polite person.

That being said, I'm not going to flip out if a guy holds a door open or something. But I do hate it when this is used as an argument against women.

"Sure, women say they want to be equal, but then they expect you to treat them like princesses"

Seriously, several people have told me that. In general it seems this is more of a problem in discussions, rather than in real life. I have never met a woman who flipped out because a man hold a door open for them, or didn't, but apparently that's a problem to some people.

 

[Random Fella]

I suppose
The fact that I would try to not let a lady lift a finger, could be considered sexist
But I'd have to say I'm halfway on this, I don't like to call myself a sexist after all.
Anyhow, women and men are different, that's why they should be treated differently, but that is sexism and it is somehow wrong to think like that.

It has more to do with the fact that none of the differences actually warrant the idea that women shouldn't have to lift a finger and that kind of nonsense. Just saying they're different on its own is meaningless. Showing how it leads to the conclusion that you should behave a certain way is what matters. Anything else is a weak excuse.

But it's not the fact that they shouldn't have to lift a finger
It's that some women like to be treated nicely, they enjoy to be treated like queens, so by acting the part of the gentleman, you make her happy by doing said things
But I just can't admit that it's sexist to act like that, since the term 'sexist' sounds so negative

 

[Maze1125]

And sometimes a women might need a and carrying heavy stuff, I by no means claim women are weak or inferior, simply that I am stronger than most women and I don't see how it is a problem if I offer to carry something heavy for them.

And it wouldn't be sexist, if you're also willing to help carry things for weaker men.

If you refuse to carry things for men who are weaker than you, but do for women who are weaker than you. You're perpetuating a stereotype that men ought to be strong, but it's okay for women to be weak, and that's sexist.

 

[shintakie10]

My bad, I guess I associate being called a sexist as opposing women's rights and the like. I think we just disagree, I understand that it comes under 'sexist' because its different treatment of men and women, but I don't think it has negative connotations.

Raises flame shield

And sometimes a women might need a and carrying heavy stuff, I by no means claim women are weak or inferior, simply that I am stronger than most women and I don't see how it is a problem if I offer to carry something heavy for them.

A sexist is someone who treats either men or woman differently than their counterparts simply because of what reproductive organs they have. End of story. You can sugarcoat it however you want. You can justify it however you want. It is sexism and it makes you a sexist. Own up to that fact and move on.

Hypothetical situation. You come across a woman strugglin to carry several bags. You do not know this person at all. Do you offer to help carry the stuff?

Now the important part.

You come across the same exact situation except instead of a woman it is a man strugglin to carry several bags. Do you offer to help carry the stuff?

 

[Maze1125]

It's that some women like to be treated nicely, they enjoy to be treated like queens,

And there isn't even a single man who likes to be treated nicely?

 

[Timmey]

And sometimes a women might need a and carrying heavy stuff, I by no means claim women are weak or inferior, simply that I am stronger than most women and I don't see how it is a problem if I offer to carry something heavy for them.

And it wouldn't be sexist, if you're also willing to help carry things for weaker men.

If you refuse to carry things for men who are weaker than you, but do for women who are weaker than you. You're perpetuating a stereotype that men ought to be strong, but it's okay for women to be weak, and that's sexist.

I would happily carry anything heavy for anyone. But the way it works out is that I end up carrying more stuff for women than men.