Poll: Is zero a number? (Read before voting)

[Eisenfaust]

yeah, of course it is... it is the conceptualisation of nothingness, just as other numbers are conceptualisations of others values... just because it represents the absence of something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist itself...

besides, given your own example, what would -1 apples be? you owe an apple to someone else?

 

[newfoundsky]

It's a concept of nothing. . . After all you can never have NOTHING. Therefor there is no way that zero can be a number because you can never have zero of anything.

 

[SGrahambo]

Whether something is a number or not has no basis in physical reality. A number is an abstract mathematical concept.

Most clear cut and simple answer of all the posts I've seen here.

 

[shadowyoasis]

Well yes, you can see 1 cat.

heres an example.

There is 1 guy stuck in a doggy door.
1 has a value. You can place mass, weight, and volume to the number 1.
There by, in the physical world, 1 can exist.

Now remove the 1 guy.
There is now just a doggy door. Not 0 guys in 1 doggy door.

XD see what i mean?

Hrm, you just screwed your own example in this, and are at this point just being stubborn.

You see 1 guy stuck in a door, there for you then defined and gave value to "one guy" meaning the count of what was stuck in the doggy door is now one. If you remove the guy and then count the guys stuck in the door you will find that they are 0 guys stuck in the door.

Very much so if you remove the guy from the door, then there will be 0 guys in 1 doggy door.

If I showed you an empty box and told you to count how many kittens are in there, would you then tell me that I have 1 kitten even though they are none, or would you state that I have 1 box even though you are counting kittens, by this logic if I have three apples on the table and ask you how many apples the answer of 1 table is also valid.

Now lets show you a real number that doesn't exist but is purely conceptual, -1.

If I have three apples, I want you to show me -1 apple. Not two apples, not one apples, not zero apples, I want to see negative one apples. I have three apples, I want you to take away 4 of them.

 

[fenderstrat]

if zero isnt a number, then 1 isnt a number either. or 2, or 30, or whatever

 

[p3t3r]

i have to arguments for 0 being a number.

1)if 0 isn't a number than how can 103 be a number? i mean a ~ isn't a number and if you stick it in there then 1~3 isn't a number so if it is in larger numbers than it is a number you see?

2) lets say you had for example $203. now each of those digits represent something. the first digit shows that you have 2 $100 groups. the second digit represents how many 10$ groups you have over the $100 groups. since the second digit is 0 that means the number of groups of tens over 200 you have is 0. therefor 0 is a number

i hope that makes sense i could describe it better in person

 

[runnerbelow]

Math is theoretical, and as such you can't use real world examples to really make a point, because when it comes to the real world, we give everything a value. You can't really say there is one vacuum and use that to prove zero does not exist because it has no value, and in theory that is the purpose of zero, to represent a value of nothing; and technically "nothing" does not exist.

Zero is by it's very definition a number. It's an idea, to represent null. Consider sports for example, when you have no points, you have zero, null. You have nothing in this sense and zero is the concept used to represent nothing. It represents a lack of a value. Every number is an idea, a concept; a theory. 1,2,3; they're are all numbers made by people to make a way to give things a value, and 0 was made to represent the value of nothing, because it's all theory. Your question on this does not seem to be if zero is a number, but if zero is a number which can be applicable to real life, and in that sense; it may not be able to.

EDIT: it seems my post was meant to be more directed at kouriichi.

 

[TheLefty]

I really hope someone has said this already, but have you ever heard of imaginary numbers?

It's freshman Algebra stuff (in that I learned part of it last year)and they're numbers that can't be in real life but they hold a place for...something. I'm sure there are more, but yes, zero along with negative numbers are numbers. They're just imaginary ones, (not in the same sense a unicorn is imaginary).

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Zero is a number just as one is a number. You can have 0 apples and you can have 1 apple. All just because there are apples else where in the world does not dispute the fact that I currently have 0 apples. You can have a value of nothing. All just because technically it is impossible to own a value of zero apples (technically you can't own 0 of anything because you literally can't own nothing, you wouldn't have anything), doesn't mean that 0 isn't a value.

Yes I understand that zero is used as a placeholder in the Arabic(?) numeral system, but then so are other numbers. 10 represents the value ten not one and zero, right? Well in the same vein of thought, 14 represents the value fourteen not one and four. With "10" the one occupies the tens spot while the zero occupies the ones spot (sorry if those aren't the technical terms), thus "10" literally means one ten and zero ones. "14" means one ten and four ones. "4032" means four thousands, zero hundreds, three tens, and two ones. See where I'm getting at?

 

[Paulie92]

Of course, I understand the other side of the argument. If you don't have any apples around, then there must be 0 apples right? This starts bringing in semantics. Yes, I have 0 apples in my room at this current time. No, that does NOT make 0 a number. I can also say no apples are in my room. Is 'no' a number? Absolutely not.

Yes, but if you have four apples in your room you could also say, "Yes, I have some apples in my room." By that logic four isn't a number, which it undeniably is.

I can't quite put my finger on my reasoning but I do think zero is a number. I suppose it's because zero isn't nothing in the truest sense of the word nothing. I'd rather not go into bizaro metaphysics debating about what nothing is as that will go so far off topic

 

[BourneGamer]

1-2-=-1 Now, since numbers are a contiuous and unbroken sequence. Tell me, What NUMBER is exactly between 1 and -1?

 

[crystalsnow]

Oh dear. This exploded like wildfire. I can't comment to every argument lol.

I guess what this all boils down to (and I should have typed this earlier, since I kinda figured it's what it was) is your definition of a numbed. In my view, zero is not a number because a number represents a value or lack thereof (positive or negative), while zero is the complete absence of any value (quite possibly never containing a value in the first place), so I believe it cannot be a number. However, everyone has a slightly different definition for "number".

Some people have wrote that without zero, binary code and such would not exist. I'd like to reinstate (I suppose i wasn't clear enough) that I do believe 0 to be a DIGIT, but NOT a NUMBER.

I guess this also depends on what type of thinker you are. Critical, philosophical thinkers probably were the ones that voted no, while more straightforward and logical thinkers probably said yes.

EDIT:

Whether something is a number or not has no basis in physical reality. A number is an abstract mathematical concept.

Several people have posted responses such as this. I realize numbers are abstract, this is merely a personal opinion thread. Theoretical logic can back up your argument (for or against), this thread isn't intended to prove whether zero is a number, because you CAN'T prove that.

 

[crystalsnow]

1-2-=-1 Now, since numbers are a contiuous and unbroken sequence. Tell me, What NUMBER is exactly between 1 and -1?

.1
.3
.02
.94873
-.67
-.9

Need more?

 

[kouriichi]

Well yes, you can see 1 cat.

heres an example.

There is 1 guy stuck in a doggy door.
1 has a value. You can place mass, weight, and volume to the number 1.
There by, in the physical world, 1 can exist.

Now remove the 1 guy.
There is now just a doggy door. Not 0 guys in 1 doggy door.

XD see what i mean?

Hrm, you just screwed your own example in this, and are at this point just being stubborn.

You see 1 guy stuck in a door, there for you then defined and gave value to "one guy" meaning the count of what was stuck in the doggy door is now one. If you remove the guy and then count the guys stuck in the door you will find that they are 0 guys stuck in the door.

Very much so if you remove the guy from the door, then there will be 0 guys in 1 doggy door.

If I showed you an empty box and told you to count how many kittens are in there, would you then tell me that I have 1 kitten even though they are none, or would you state that I have 1 box even though you are counting kittens, by this logic if I have three apples on the table and ask you how many apples the answer of 1 table is also valid.

Now lets show you a real number that doesn't exist but is purely conceptual, -1.

If I have three apples, I want you to show me -1 apple. Not two apples, not one apples, not zero apples, I want to see negative one apples. I have three apples, I want you to take away 4 of them.

Im not being stubborn. im debating my side of the argument to the best of my ability.
But this arguement isnt about negatives. Its about 0. the argument of negative numbers existing is not relative.

But if you removed the 1 guy from he doggy door, you would just have a doggy door.
You by your logic, there would also be 0 garbage trucks in the doggy door, 0 fish in the doggy door, 0 explosives in the doggy door and 0 guys in the doggy door. techinically, there would be 0 everythings in the doggy door. Even 0 0's.

Its not a real number, because you cannot measure it in value. I cannot pay someone in 0 100 dollar bills. You cannot eat 0 real apples and survive.

in our universe, there is no such thing as 0, because something is always filling the space of 0.

If you removed the 1 guy from the 1 doggy door, there wouldent be 0 guys and 1 doggy door, there would be 1 doggy door flap and 1 doggy door. There would be something to take the guys place, even if it was just air.

 

[The Night Shade]

Yes it is a number because it represents value

 

[BourneGamer]

1-2-=-1 Now, since numbers are a contiuous and unbroken sequence. Tell me, What NUMBER is exactly between 1 and -1?

.1
.3
.02
.94873
-.67
-.9

Need more?

Okay, fine if you want semantics. What is the MEDIAN number of the line segment between 1 and -1?

 

[Samwise137]

Wow, good question (and one I'm sure my friend could answer better). The only way I can answer this is to bring up a recent conversation I had with my brother's best friend. Try spending a day thinking/operating in a totally different number system. I'm not talking about binary or hexidecimal but something obscure like base 3 or base 9. It becomes VERY difficult (if not impossible) without the concept of zero. Therefore, I say yes it is indeed a number.

 

[crystalsnow]

1-2-=-1 Now, since numbers are a contiuous and unbroken sequence. Tell me, What NUMBER is exactly between 1 and -1?

.1
.3
.02
.94873
-.67
-.9

Need more?

Okay, fine if you want semantics. What is the MEDIAN number of the line segment between 1 and -1?

I think you misunderstand me. The correct answer is 0, and anyone who tries to deny that is an idiot. The reason it's 0 is because 0 is a placeholder for the absence of value.

Here's a good example for everyone. I think this may be a major point too.

Say you travel 3 miles north to work (+3). After 8 hours, you travel 3 miles south back to home(-3).

Where did you end up? 0 miles
How far away did you travel? 0 miles
What was the total distance traveled? 6 miles

You have traveled 6 miles, yet your position in space is 0, because you returned to your starting location. 6 != 0 yet you traveled both 6 miles and 0 miles. Can everyone understand where I'm coming from now?

 

[crystalsnow]

Snip

I disagree. You can't move negative miles. Moving a mile backwards in still positive, I've still gone a mile, I just went a mile backwards. Look at your odometer, it will agree with me.

You can claim that -1 mile is moving backwards, but that only holds true if you're traveling to a specific destination on a set path. I can back down my driveway and still be on route, and I can drive forwards down a road in the opposite direction of my endpoint and be negative miles closer to my destination.

You are using absolute value. You have to think of positive and negative as directions. Moving negative in any direction is opposite of the positive direction (obviously)

 

[Eggsnham]

I chose option three.

Mostly because I don't actually care.

Don't get me wrong, OP, it was an interesting thread; I just don't feel the maths right now.