Poll: Is zero a number? (Read before voting)

[zhoominator]

Garblarg! I can't believe this thread has gone to over 700 posts! Can there be that much disagreement about such a basic thing? This just irritates the piss out of me. The OP is talking right out of his ass, as are half of the posters here! This is the most pointless, nonsensical, semantic bullshit I've ever seen! I just... GAH!

Yes! It's a number! As in, there are 0 reasons this thread is still hot. The existence of absolute "nothing" may be philosophically debatable, but the common concept of nothing is still a valid and useful one, so what the fuck are we talking about? I can say nothing else, just... please!

But life as we know it hinges on this important question! Don't those who dwell beneath bridges have as much right to their anecdotal "evidence" as we do to our logic? Aren't semantics the basis for the culture at large and are how we will get out of the recession?

 

[ygetoff]

It can be used to represent a value in mathematics, in the same way that advanced math uses different levels of infinity, even though in real life infinity is merely a concept.

 

[Kwatsu]

As I understand it, it's a number the same way black or white aren't technically colours because they're not on the spectrum; they represent an absence of colour or all the colours simultaneously.

But I don't know. I got a C in mathematics. And it wasn't a very good C either.

 

[oktalist]

Erm numbers are not abstract? They are the opposite! Numbers are universal! Numbers are logical! What the hell do you mean they are abstract?! Zero is a concept. Numbers are not just a concept they are a universal law.

Numbers are an abstract concept, as defined by mathematics. All of mathematics is abstract concepts. You are free to redefine it, but then we would not be talking about the same thing.

 

[kommunizt kat]

all numbers represent value and zero represents a value that equals no value so zero is indeed a number and is widely accepted as such.

 

[Theninja'skatana]

If a number can be described as 'A figure used to represent value', and zero has no value, then logically zero would not be a number.

Your sort of right yet, entirely pointless argument is intriguing.
Zero ,in my belief, is the numerical representation of the void aka nada, nothing zilch etc.
It is like morality there Evil(-),Neutral(zero), and Good(+).

 

[crystalsnow]

Oh my god. I leave this thread overnight, and it goes from page 8 to 21. I had 20 messages in my inbox from people quoting me. I can't (and won't) respond to all of them, because I already have a headache as it is. I have no doubt almost everyone has a valid argument, because just skimming through the pages I can see a lot of thought put into posts, even though I'm sure there are a few trolls too. Thank you all for contributing to this thread, this went way farther than I thought.

Honestly, you can't prove zero is a number. And you can't prove it isn't. Some people are getting very angry in this thread (and quite a few of them are getting off topic), even though it's just a simple opinion thread. Whether or not zero is a number in your mind depends on what kind of thinker you are, and what you define as a "number".

 

[marblemadness]

The OP seems like he should become a philosopher. He sure isn't a mathematician.

It's universally understood that zero is a number.

 

[FluxCapacitor]

YOU can't absolutely prove zero is a number - but a properly trained mathematician can run up a rigorous proof for you in about 5 minutes. In fact, many have, all through the thread. Read them, there are some folks here who DO know what they're talking about. I wouldn't go to my dentist and tell him he fixes my teeth wrong, because I don't know anything about teeth. Similarly, you should not try and tell mathematicians what they're doing wrong if you knowq little/nothing about numbers.

Crystal, you were innocently wrong, and are encouraged to ask questions like this because they are questions that have been asked for thousands of years - not because it is 'unknowable', but because the process of thinking of the question and internalising the answer is worthwhile. But here's the rub - when you ask a question, you have to be prepared to recieve an answer and properly evaluate it before integrating it into your worldview.

I'm almost positive that kunoiichi is in fact a massive troll - he is logical fallacies incarnate. And it is clear that his "who says you need a degree to be smart?" attitude seems utterly facetious when he tries to argue with anyone actually holding one. Obviously you don't need to get a degree to be smart, but wilfully ignoring the value of higher education (in terms of enriching a student's general worldview and specifically qualifying them as an expert in a chosen field) is positively galling to those of us who have done the hard yards, and learned the hard lessons. He's gone on for the 12 hours I was out on the town, and I stagger home to bed notinging that this damn thread that was mathematically resolved back around page 6 is STILL FREAKING GOING.

Kuno, sometimes in your life you have to acknowledge that there are people in the world more knowledgeable than you. The only way to change this is by acquiring their knowledge from them, listening to them, learning from them. If you refuse to learn from those people, the way you have refused to learn from us, then your knowledge gain will be much slower than it should be. Perhaps this is the real reason school wasn't for you? Not big on authority?

 

[Ziggy the wolf]

zero by all terms is a number but there is more of an abstract thought behind the place of a 0. its a barrier. a place where all information and existance starts and ends with: nothing. in numbers it is a place between real numbers (1 to infinite) and negative numbers (-1 to oblivion)

 

[Criquefreak]

Just because it's an imaginary number doesn't make it any less than a real number.

After all, Pi is an imaginary number but we all love it.

Who would want to live in a world without Pi?

For that matter, how will we ever have future episodes of Sesame Street when children become hyper intelligent, we must have Sesame Street brought to us by the letters Theta, Gamma, and the number i. (Still the best joke I remember from college, even if I forgot which Greek letters were used at the time.)

 

[Shroomhell]

I believe 0 is a number as numbers are just representations of values. and 0 can be represented in an empty hand or vacuum.

Also as soon as you contain a situation to a certain area it no longer matters what is or isn't in another area, all other areas becoming irrelevant to the situation. also you having no money and no debt is having 0 dollars. that there is more money out there in the world no longer matters to the case as it has been contained to "you".

*edit* i have only just started college so my views are simple and poorly thought out, so plz don't criticize me for being poorly learned as I know I am.

 

[Lukeje]

Just because it's an imaginary number doesn't make it any less than a real number.

After all, Pi is an imaginary number but we all love it.

Who would want to live in a world without Pi?

For that matter, how will we ever have future episodes of Sesame Street when children become hyper intelligent, we must have Sesame Street brought to us by the letters Theta, Gamma, and the number i. (Still the best joke I remember from college, even if I forgot which Greek letters were used at the time.)

pi is not an imaginary number and nor is zero. They are both real.

 

[warprincenataku]

Zero is in fact not a number, it is a placeholder and nothing more.

Zero represents either the absence of an item or a place as is 10 equals ten, because nothing is in the 1's place.

Yeah, remember that from math class. 1's, 10's, 100's places? That's right, those little 0's are placeholders, not numbers.

That's just my two cents, nothing more.

 

[Criquefreak]

Just because it's an imaginary number doesn't make it any less than a real number.

After all, Pi is an imaginary number but we all love it.

Who would want to live in a world without Pi?

For that matter, how will we ever have future episodes of Sesame Street when children become hyper intelligent, we must have Sesame Street brought to us by the letters Theta, Gamma, and the number i. (Still the best joke I remember from college, even if I forgot which Greek letters were used at the time.)

pi is not an imaginary number and nor is zero. They are both real.

From what I've read on it, zero's both a real and imaginary number. Meh.

As far as Pi, we're talking about a number used to represent "the ratio of any circle's circumference to its diameter". It's practically a variable even though it's claimed to be a constant. I'm certain die hard mathematicians would disagree, but it may as well be imaginary as far as I care. It can't be exactly calculated, it's more functional in imprecise use, and the more I read on it, the more it sounds like a philosophical concept than a scientific one.

 

[IshFish]

You have traveled 6 miles, yet your position in space is 0, because you returned to your starting location. 6 != 0 yet you traveled both 6 miles and 0 miles. Can everyone understand where I'm coming from now?[/i][/u]

This is todo with displacement vs distence isnt it; they are 2 differnt measures and so 1 is zero and the other is 6 so i dont get your example

 

[Lukeje]

Just because it's an imaginary number doesn't make it any less than a real number.

After all, Pi is an imaginary number but we all love it.

Who would want to live in a world without Pi?

For that matter, how will we ever have future episodes of Sesame Street when children become hyper intelligent, we must have Sesame Street brought to us by the letters Theta, Gamma, and the number i. (Still the best joke I remember from college, even if I forgot which Greek letters were used at the time.)

pi is not an imaginary number and nor is zero. They are both real.

From what I've read on it, zero's both a real and imaginary number. Meh.

As far as Pi, we're talking about a number used to represent "the ratio of any circle's circumference to its diameter". It's practically a variable even though it's claimed to be a constant. I'm certain die hard mathematicians would disagree, but it may as well be imaginary as far as I care. It can't be exactly calculated, it's more functional in imprecise use, and the more I read on it, the more it sounds like a philosophical concept than a scientific one.

Every number from the set of complex numbers may be written in the form x + iy, where i == (-1)[sup]1/2[/sup]. A number for which y = 0 is called a `real number', a number with non-zero y is `imaginary'. Both zero and pi have y = 0, hence they are both real. And why do you say that pi is a variable? It has a constant value.

 

[joshthor]

why are people like this? its not a deep psychological issue, its not going to change anythign if it is or isnt a number, it doesnt make you stupid if you think it is or isnt a number, it just makes you an idiot for spending so much time over thinking! zero is a number. i have 1 phone, however i have 0 ipads. i cant have -1 ipad, cause ive never had one, but i cant have 1 on the same point. 0 is not just a placeholder, its a countable amount. remarkably easy to count as well.

 

[Criquefreak]

Just because it's an imaginary number doesn't make it any less than a real number.

After all, Pi is an imaginary number but we all love it.

Who would want to live in a world without Pi?

For that matter, how will we ever have future episodes of Sesame Street when children become hyper intelligent, we must have Sesame Street brought to us by the letters Theta, Gamma, and the number i. (Still the best joke I remember from college, even if I forgot which Greek letters were used at the time.)

pi is not an imaginary number and nor is zero. They are both real.

From what I've read on it, zero's both a real and imaginary number. Meh.

As far as Pi, we're talking about a number used to represent "the ratio of any circle's circumference to its diameter". It's practically a variable even though it's claimed to be a constant. I'm certain die hard mathematicians would disagree, but it may as well be imaginary as far as I care. It can't be exactly calculated, it's more functional in imprecise use, and the more I read on it, the more it sounds like a philosophical concept than a scientific one.

Every number from the set of complex numbers may be written in the form x + iy, where i == (-1)[sup]1/2[/sup]. A number for which y = 0 is called a `real number', a number with non-zero y is `imaginary'. Both zero and pi have y = 0, hence they are both real. And why do you say that pi is a variable? It has a constant value.

Zero lies on the complex plane axes of both real and imaginary numbers, becoming both. One of those hallmarks of scientific process, don't just test how it is, test also how it isn't. As far as some formula, you're on your own at finding something that proves something only to yourself and those who want to spend months learning why that equation is even used. Anyone can throw random mathematical formula around with the assumption that it proves anything without the hefty background knowledge necessary to even use it properly (much less in context). Every source of information I can find on the topic claims zero to be both real and imaginary and seeing as how zero represents an undemonstratable concept (you can't show people nothing, only an absence of something) I'm leaning far more on the side of it being an imaginary number as it's reliant on something else to even have definition.

While Pi may have a constant value, no one can calculate it to completion. It's common usage is to determine the values of other things whose values will vary and it's not used with its exact value ever (partially because we can't and partially because after the first few digits it could change its constant value at that point and it wouldn't make any difference to the people using it). In common usage, Pi has a varying value determined on how much a person cares for its accuracy and how precise its usage is even useful to the task at hand. But given that you've already assumed putting words in my mouth by changing what I stated from "practically" to "is", I doubt you're inclined to care anyways.

 

[Criquefreak]

why are people like this? its not a deep psychological issue, its not going to change anythign if it is or isnt a number, it doesnt make you stupid if you think it is or isnt a number, it just makes you an idiot for spending so much time over thinking! zero is a number. i have 1 phone, however i have 0 ipads. i cant have -1 ipad, cause ive never had one, but i cant have 1 on the same point. 0 is not just a placeholder, its a countable amount. remarkably easy to count as well.

Somehow I prefer this rationale far more than mine. There is a thing as too much education...