Poll: Jedi or Sith Philosophy: Who is right?

[Tony2077]

i like what a character class in swtor says about the sith code my chains are broken so I'm free to choose my own path went light side for that character

 

[Foolery]

Well....neither. There's a reason there needs to be balance to the force.

Yeah, that's probably the best answer. Both are a little too extreme for my tastes. The Jedi Dark/Light thing has felt kind of hokey to me. I think there were 'Grey' Jedi in the comics, who dabbled in both sides, but I'm not sure.

 

[Zipa]

George Lucas is no philosopher, they're both kind of dumb. But the Sith win the shiny gold dunce cap.

The fact that they have to kill their master in order to become a new master is incredibly stupid. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The fact that there are only two Sith in the films only makes it worse. Who thought this was a good idea?

The EU explanation is that the Sith are, by their nature, unstable, and given time and enough of them, they'll always collapse into a giant genocidal shit show that will inevitably kill them all/most of them off. After one of these collapses, there was only one Sith left, and he instituted the 'Rule of Two' to stabilize Sith culture and insure it survived forever.

Whether he honestly believed that, or made the rule up as a ploy to dominate his one apprentice, is left to the reader.

Its heavily implied from the Darth Bane books that he got the idea or at least the inspiration from the

Spoiler

holocron of Darth Revan

that he acquires on his travels.

Edit: He straight lifted the idea from it.

"This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be. My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well."

 

[immortalfrieza]

Another vote for neither. The Sith are a bunch of stupid evil nutjobs whose chronic backstabbing ways are counterproductive to their goal of absolute power and is the main factor is most all of their defeats. The Jedi are a bunch of emotionally dead defenders of a hopelessly corrupt government that would and should have fallen without them and whose philosopy has resulted in it's pupils falling to the Dark Side countless times throughout it's history. Worst of all, neither of these groups learn anything from their mistakes, refuse to change in any meaningful way, and both assume that their respective codes are perfect and that it's the people that are flawed without recognizing that this means the code is flawed despite thousands of years of opportunity to change.

Ultimately both Orders are religious fanatics promoting their own view of The Force, the mystical energy field that neither group really knows much about but are unable to so much as question their approach to it. Grey Jedi are the best option because they are flexible enough to deal with the galaxy as it IS, rather than what they want it to be like the Jedi and Sith do. The Jedi only come out ahead because they are supposed to be the good guys in the Star Wars universe, not because they are any better than the Sith in terms of their philosophy.

 

[RJ 17]

Yay! Another poll that doesn't have the proper option for the question!

As many have already pointed out: neither...and that's kinda the entire point. I won't bother to expound further since plenty of others have already done this.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

They are both a weirdass cult and weirdass cults are never right. Everything would be better off without either of them.

 

[MiskWisk]

Well, as many have said: neither.

WARNING: APPROACHING EU TERRITORY

I do recommend looking up Darth Vectivus for an example of a Sith that got it right though if anyone is interested. Guy learned the Sith way and then went back to his old life with space magic powers to help. Died a rich, successful old man surrounded by family and even tried to help Jedi when he was dead.

Also, since neither isn't an option, I'm going to throw in my own non-options and state that the Matukai were the guys you wanted. Space kung-fu masters who told a jedi to his face that the jedi training was elitist and ineffectual. Anyone disagree and think a different group were better? I am quite partial to the Jensaarai as well even if it is mostly because they realised lightsaber resistant armour is a sensible idea.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I've been watching a ton of Star Wars films, shows and playing a lot of games and I've come to realize that I don't necessarily agree with the philosophy of the Jedi. Then again in nearly all portrayals of the Sith they are villainous and pure evil, yet their philosophy runs more in line with what many of us would identify as being uniquely Human traits. I realize that there is a middle road in between the two in all probability

And, interestingly, this is exactly a large part of what KOTOR 2 explores. Which is part of why I think it a masterpiece.

I agree. Have you ever played with the cut content added back in by fans? Because... don't. It's garbage. It's a labor of love and they put a lot of time and effort into it, but it is straight-up hot garbage. The droid planet is literally nothing but padding and SHITTY voice acting (like, the worst I've ever heard) and the HK factory is stupidly difficult and really awkward and out of place.

Anyway, back on-topic: the Jedi, though I'm not surprised the Sith are winning this poll (this board is full of cynics and "edgy" people). Regardless of how you interpret their creed, the Jedi are always on the side of life, peace, and compassion, and the Sith are always interested in power, greed, and ruling absolutely. One thing to remember is that the Sith exist solely in opposition to the Jedi. When left to their own devices, the Sith destroy themselves if there are no Jedi to fight. The Jedi don't NEED to fight, so they can function just fine in peace time. Look at their codes:

The Jedi code is fairly neutral, offering guidance on how to live peacefully and productively through the Force:

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Looking at the Sith code, however, it has one glaring problem:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

It's purely a response to the Jedi code, starting with a contradiction of the Jedi code's first line. Then it mentions gaining victory, clearly aimed at victory over the Jedi, and that achieving this victory will "free" them. THAT always struck me as the real lie, because when your order exists purely in opposition to another, are you ever really free? Your actions and motivations are dictated by the existence of someone else. That's not freedom. It's also why the Sith have never successfully wiped out the Jedi, despite dealing crushing blows every now and then. Even if the Sith completely wipe out the Jedi, the whole order would just collapse in on itself unless another opponent surfaced for them to oppose.

People like to focus on the mistakes the Jedi made in the films and EU, like they HAVE to be perfect in order to be a force for good. I always thought that was dumb.

 

[DoPo]

I've been watching a ton of Star Wars films, shows and playing a lot of games and I've come to realize that I don't necessarily agree with the philosophy of the Jedi. Then again in nearly all portrayals of the Sith they are villainous and pure evil, yet their philosophy runs more in line with what many of us would identify as being uniquely Human traits. I realize that there is a middle road in between the two in all probability

And, interestingly, this is exactly a large part of what KOTOR 2 explores. Which is part of why I think it a masterpiece.

I agree. Have you ever played with the cut content added back in by fans? Because... don't. It's garbage. It's a labor of love and they put a lot of time and effort into it, but it is straight-up hot garbage. The droid planet is literally nothing but padding and SHITTY voice acting (like, the worst I've ever heard) and the HK factory is stupidly difficult and really awkward and out of place.

I have. I don't know what the restored content is, aside from the droid planet (it did patch up why the robots weren't there in the end, if I remember correctly) and that Jedi Disciple (I think that's how they called her) you can find in the ruins of the Jedi academy. It was a bit obvious she wasn't part of the original game because her dialogue was a tad...schizophrenic. She would contradict stuff she said just few lines before and overall it felt stitched together. But other than those two, I don't know what the rest of the restorations are, as I've not played the original.

 

[Lunar Templar]

as, what? almost every one else said.

Neither is correct. The only 'correct path for a force user is to take is to take Sith Philosophy, and Jedi Philosophy and meet in the middle somewhere.

or be 'balanced' in the force.

 

[thejboy88]

I say Sith. When I was younger I was of that mindset that the Jedi were the all-around good guys, so the Sith, being their enemies, were obviously bad guys. But, as I grow older and hear more about the other side of things, I realise that the Sith just have a bad PR. When you listen to their philosophy, understanding their "earn your power through strength" ideals and other concepts, you being to understand that they're not evil, like the Jedi would have us think.

Having seen Sith characters from beyond the movies, you can actually see them as reasonable people, and not just the "muahaha, I'm evil and will blow up your planet" kind of tyrants the movies paint them as.

 

[Compatriot Block]

A lot of people think of the Sith as what I think should be lumped in with the Gray Jedi category. They're the ones who don't choose to give up emotion and love but still attempt to make more morally good decisions, just with a little more leeway.

The Sith, by definition, believe that might makes right and that power is a goal. I think a lot of people support the Sith as a sort of backlash against the Jedi being sort of bullheaded and zealous, but when you're leading an organization of prescient, telepathic and telekinetic warrior monks, I can understand the strategy of harshly discouraging anything that might lead to power-hunger. Plus, since they are basically supposed to be diplomats and peacekeepers most of the time, detachment and neutrality fits right in.

The six movies are basically a story of how only 2-3 evil Force-users basically fucked up the entire galaxy for decades. There were a lot of Jedi, and when it only takes a couple to cause incalculable amounts of damage, paranoia begins to make a little more sense.

EDIT: Forgot to actually make a decision. The Jedi code might seem overzealous and strict, but it's a lot better than the alternative. The Sith have loved ones and that's great for them, but they literally use hatred and anger to make themselves stronger, and give zero shits about anyone else.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

From what I know of the SW universe (never really got into the EU stuff), Mace Windu was probably the closest to being a "balanced" Force user; he was definitely Light Side, but he had tight enough control of his emotions to use a fighting style that employed aggression and anger. He's probably an edge case, though, and Jedi philosophy seems to embrace emotional equanimity almost to the point of mental castration as the only (perceived) way to keep ordinary emotions from leading exceptionally-powerful people to the Dark Side.

I always wondered whether Anakin Skywalker "bringing balance to the force" is allowing the sith to get stronger after nearly getting wiped out, could be either a writing brilliance (in a pretty mediocre trilogy) or just a fan interpratation.

I picked up on that too; I started wondering at some point that maybe the Jedi were seriously misinterpreting "balance" as "following our philopsophy completely", and when Yoda delivered his "A prophecy that misread, could have been" line, it looked to me like the "smart guy" was finally getting it. Of course, crap all came out of that.

 

[Piorn]

OP deals in absolutes, and we all know only a Sith deals in absolutes.

But seriously, personally, I feel there's always a rich lore to these discussions, but they're primarily made to give us undeniably bad antagonists, and the lore doesn't factor in at all.
It's something you usually see in videogames, just because it justifies a disposable army of evil mooks.

So if we're going by story, of course the Jedi are the right choice. Our world doesn't run on Narrativium, though.
Would I rather have no emotions or only evil emotions? Well, neither.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

You know those black robed yellow-eyed bastards who tend to try to conquer the lawful galactic government? The ones who build the largest war fleets in history along with planet/star-destroying superweapons with the intent of subjugating any who oppose them? The ones who telepathically choke their own allies to death for making mistakes?

Yeah, the ones who aren't those guys.

Of course the truth is more complicated than that. There are some honourable Sith as well as some Jedi who take their code lightyears too far, but as a general rule there are far more well-intentioned Jedi than Sith.

Many is the time the Jedi have been criticized for not being able to correct galaxy-wide injustices without overstepping their boundaries due to being servants of the government, but compare limited efforts towards improving quality of life with actively crushing it underfoot for one's own gain. Sort of like (omitted due to not wanting to start a political flamewar).

 

[LaughingAtlas]

I actually stopped liking Star Wars as a whole as much as I used to thinking about this. Not metaphorically slapping what I've seen of light side philosophy against what I've seen of dark side philosophy, (which seems to be much broader, from the Sith species up to Darth Caedus and further, but I'd stopped caring by then) but by playing through Jedi Academy.

Spoiler: Ranty bit

I actually tried to role-play a light-side jedi in what was really not a role-playing game. That might have been stupid, but it made me realize that as a supposed keeper of peace and friend and guardian to living things, all I did was run around killing people. I noticed it during the Tattooine mission where you butcher 80 or so Tusken Raiders (The game helpfully keeps score!) and saw Jawas getting killed right alongside them.

Chopping up those banshee-lizards on the way to the jedi academy after failing to save anyone but the one other person who got out of the crash alive? It hadn't even crossed my mind that maybe I was invading their territory and they were just scared.

Killing a few dozen stormtroopers? Fuck it, they work for the Remnant (formerly the Empire) and they're just clones, right?

Slaughtering thugs or force-pushing them off a speeding subway a mile off the ground? Yes, a lot more people would have died if I hadn't and their bomb went off, but never was there a point where any manner of negotiation was attempted, in any of these cases.

It was the same with the raiders, they were just more things to be killed. I found myself behaving in exactly the same way as I would have if I were an utterly psychotic dark-side user, cutting down anything between me and whatever I wanted at any given moment, just using different force powers.

I realized all I did as a 'jedi' was kill, pretty much the same thing in the KOTOR games, and every other Star Wars game I've ever played. Then I noticed that the jedi in the main series and most of what I remember in the EU seem to do pretty much the same, I can't remember a single instance of someone holding a lightsaber telling someone to stand down like a cop might, though it has been quite a while.

[sub]So yes, you might say I lost faith in the Force.[/sub]

It stopped making a difference to me that the Sith were generally short-sighted dolts because the jedi were generally unrepentant mass murderers, like your standard fantasy hero. Both had their points, but I couldn't root for either side anymore.

If we have to pick anything, I'd add another notch to the Grey Jedi stick.

 

[FPLOON]

Neighter... I rather be a badass rebel like my main man Han Solo...
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/464_261/images/live/p0/2p/b5/p02pb5tc.jpg
Because just like his current hair color, I'm about 50 shades of grey from retirement...

 

[Vivi22]

neither they are both excellent demonstrations on how to NOT deal with your emotions in a healthy fashion.

This. Both philosophies, as demonstrated in the films anyway, are such over simplified, good and evil, black and white, infantile nonsense as to be almost devoid of any usefulness as a "philosophy." They're a quick and easy way of explaining who the good guys and the bad guys are and literally nothing else.

 

[silver wolf009]

When examining this question, you have to remember that the Force is implied to be at the very least semi-sentient, and definitely split between two entities. In this sense, both sides are right, because both act on the philosophy of a very real higher power.

However I noticed that in the Clone Wars TV show, one of the few things to survive the canon scrub, there was a line repeated by two unsavory people, the Son and Darth Maul.

"The chains are the easy part. It's what goes on in here, that's hard."​

Neither of these people could have possibly met one another, as The Son is far older than Maul, and Maul was out of commission during the time that we see the Son on Mortis. I take their seprate references as evidence that something, most likely the Dark Side, revealed to them, or convinced them that they were chained in some way, implying continuity across time and space, which would in turn imply that their were correct in their assumptions about philosophy.

 

[TristanBelmont]

Lifting spaceships out of a swamp versus getting to shoot lightning from my fingers.....
Hmmmmmmm