@funcooker11811
I'm not gonna quote you this time. Gratz on simply claiming that you snip because it's convenient and I snip because I'm manipulative though.
You're asking me to "rationally" defend my position. Regardless of the fact that you'll just declare anything I say irrational because you said you won't change your position, let me try anyways. And by the way, I said all of these things already.
1. If someone says something like the fire thing, the individuals that hear it have their own responsibility to react to it. It's their task to evaluate the validity and authority of the speaker, and if they react in a way harmful to themselves or others, it's their fault.
2. If a group of people has an individual with differing views, it's every single member's own responsibility to evaluate the statement made and change their position if they want to.
"most people think this, it's probably right" is not an argument. Neither is "when someone does something stupid, others will follow". All you're doing is showing that most people are simple sheep. Being a sheep is not an excuse or a reason to blame anyone for an encouragement you weren't thoughtful enough to scrutinize. It's the listener's responsibility, and saying that most people aren't able to take it doesn't mean it isn't there.
On the bullying thing, you said yourself that this has not been okay for decades and hasn't changed. Goes to show my point, which is that forbidding it is not gonna solve it and has not done so for a long time, as you said yourself.
"This is why we currently have this attitude in many parts of the web of "Oh, its okay to drive this person away from our community with hate speech, because we've always talked that way with each other! I'ts boys being boys!". Obviously I could point to that video of the creeper smelling the girl during the Street Fighter X Tekken tournament as a prime example of this, but I doubt anyone on here hasn't already seen it, and already knows how bad these kinds of things can get when we allow them to."
No, this is not why that happens. Sheep are why that happens. People going with the crowd and not being able to make up their own mind is why that happens. The guys saying "we've always done this" have picked bad behaviour up without questioning it. It's their fault, not the fault of free speech. Free speech isn't saying "Let's make that okay", it's saying these people are even more stupid and conformist now because it's their task to scrutinize what they hear from members of their community and not just get behind it and claim it as tradition or an integral part. What you're pointing to is not a fallacy of freedom of speech, it's fallable people too weak to form their own view. And you'll probably say something like you said about the bullying, it's disregarding other people's emotions or it's okay because most people are weak and conformist.
Pointing to the fact that most people apparently can't take shit doesn't make it okay. Nobody ever, in any other debate, uses the "majority thinks so, it's right" argument. I'm not gonna count the obvious bullshit that would be right by that logic, you can do it yourself.
Finally, "Saying that verbal abuse should be given any protection is saying that it's okay".
Absolute bullshit. Defending someone's right to voice whatever he wants to say does not make me a supporter. This is basic responsibility, am I responsible for the murder of some kid because I didn't lock the guy who did it up in my house? Of course not.
If someone stands in a stadium and talks about how the jews need to be killed, and one member of the audience kills a jew next day, am I as the owner responsible because I didn't "protect" the audience from his talk? NO. The guy in the audience is. He's the one who heard the speech, made his mind up about how much of it he agrees with, and decided his course of action. If he's simple-minded and easy to influence, bad for him. Nobody could've known that. If he never heard any points other than the one against jews, bad for him. He could've, and he should've informed himself. It's easy as fuck now that we have internet. If he did it because his friends all heard the speech too and encouraged him, bad for him. He shouldn't have let himself be influenced as easily. We can go through any possibility of what course of mind he took. I guarantee you, none of them lead back to the person that allowed the speaker to speak. The INDIVIDUAL listener is responsible for actions he takes.
By the way, I have nothing against jews. In retrospect, that example was stupid because you're less likely to consider the reasoning because now you have extreme associations. Whatever.
