Poll: Jumping or Force

[shasjas]

actually in the movie chronicle, the power gets stronger the more you use it, theres no limit known but just know you coulde level multiple buildings in a matter of days.

Also jumpers can teleport anything theyre holding onto with them. but jumpers cant jump while being shocked with electricity.

also also neither are invulnerable and you can die, but the force power cant stop attacks if you lock on to whats coming at you.

Sure, the telekinesis itself is high-power, I'm talking about the "tier" that telekinesis is on. Any goal you want to achieve with telekinesis you can also achieve with teleportation, and the way you would go about it with that power is generally safer and more reliable, but less fun.

Wait..... what?

How are you going to crush a car with the Jumpers power? Or knock and army of soldiers back, lift a building etc.

They're two very different powers and their applications are just as different.

Teleportation isn't generally an offensive power, characters like nightcrawler etc use it offensively, but it's not got anywhere near the same level of combat applications as telekinesis.

Your end goal in crushing a car isn't just to crush the car (usually) - maybe you want to kill everyone inside? maybe you want to stop someone from commuting?
Walk out into the street so the driver swerves and crashes, disappear before you get hit. Slit their throats in the middle of the night. Teleport into the back seat, and leave behind a pipe bomb.

If you're trying to knock back an army of soldiers, your goal is something like "fight off the army without getting killed in the process" - jump from place to place faster than the enemy can aim, and you can take down a platoon with a box cutter.

Winning against a platoon of soldiers with telekinesis is difficult unless you have superhuman senses and reaction speeds, because that's what you need to even have a vague idea of where a bullet is in-between the time that it's inside a gun and the time that it's inside your spleen.

If you want to collapse a building... well, that's going to be more tedious, you'll have to steal a bunch of explosives and set up the building to explode, and doing it properly will take a few days of preparation, but if you do it right you won't even get caught. While on the other hand wrecking it with telekinesis will give you all kinds of trouble you don't want to have to deal with.

That's like saying everything your hands you can do your feet can to.

The fact of the matter is you can't do everything a person with TK could do with TP.

I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the actual ability to do something, like what you were letting on to.

Also, it's pretty much par for the course that high level TK's can create forcefields etc. So it really isn't about stopping each individual bullet, but creating an area around you that bullets won't pass through, think Magneto in whichever Xman film he does that in. Same idea.

I specifically said "any goals you can achieve" instead of just saying "anything you can do" because I was talking about results. I don't know how you can get that I was letting onto something that I structured the whole sentence arount not implying.

Forcefields in that sense aren't things you can actually produce, though. Not only are they not real, which on its own wouldn't matter, but being able to create a solid thing made of force just by being able to apply forces to things would deny what we know about what force is.

You can't achieve levitating something in the air..... Like a building.

And you must be joking, what's real and what isn't where powers are concerned is down entirely to whoevers writing the damn story. Telekinesis isn't real if you're going to go down the pedantic route.

And I wasn't talking about a psychic construct, which is a different power altogether. But a field of energy around the person that stops things before they hit the person. Not a solid barrier, just a field of density. Thousands of telekenets do that in stories, and although I haven't seen chronicle yet, I find it hard to imagine they can't do it.

Well, yeah, but that's a stupid goal. Levitating a building is always either a means to an end (levitate building -> drop building on target -> kill that guy) or just mucking about. If your goal is to muck about, waste time, and generally misuse your powers, there are plenty of things you can do with teleportation as well.

My point wasn't that they're not real - and, again, this is something I've been over in the thing I just said that you're responding to. I'm saying that a solid object made of force is nonsense, it's like a circle with corners, and you can't just decide that telekinesis gives you the power to do nonsense.

...Do you mean compressing the air in the space between you and the enemy into a solid? That might work, but it'd be problematic for when you want to drop the shield and it basically explodes everywhere.
If that's not what you're getting at, can you try to explain it in a way that makes sense? "Field of density" doesn't really.

Then what you meant is like saying 'Anything you can do with your hands you can do with your feet.'

You could 'Kill that guy' or 'muck about' with more or less any power. You could also do them without powers, so the comparison is neither here nor there.

And a telekenets force field is usually just an area around them that they control, either by increasing the airs density or simply using their ability (however it works) to effect anything that enters is, either by flooding it with energy or just mentally stopping in anything that passes the area, it's been a part of any good TK's arsenal for years.

I suppose you could argue that, but my original point was that teleportation would be better at achieving goals. If you decide, for instance, that you want to bring down the Chinese government, you can do that with a bit of research, a good sharp knife, and about an hour spent assassinating everything.

See, you're not really explaining how it's able to make sense. To have creating shields as part of as part of your arsenal when your power is just telekinesis, you have to be able to explain how you would go about doing that. Unless this stupidity has specifically been used in Chronicle, I'm not going to just accept that the power allows it, because it's a completely distinct thing from telekinesis.

yea. you could do that. Or you could do an Akira and openly crush the entire military. Ware a mask if you're worried about identity.

And it makes just as much sense as being able to lift something with your mind. Tell me how that would logically work? Reducing gravities effect on it? Pushing air underneath it? Using giant invisible arms? It depends how the writers want it to work as to how the ability works.

Personally, if I was writing it. I'd say that you just concentrate on the area around you, focusing so you grab everything that passes it. There's no real need to focus on individual items such as bullets.

Well, yeah, that's the point, that's the different approaches. And I'm saying teleportation is better in that regard there because a reasonably sized detachment of the military could stop you before you made a decent amount of progress.

That's not the issue here. The issue is being able to lift something with your mind leading to being able to make solid things made of force (which makes no sense). If I accept for the purposes of discussion that telekinesis makes sense, I'm under no obligation to accept another distinct bit of nonsense without good reason.

That results in throwing the air around you outwards with just as much force as you'd be applying to the bullets to slow them down. Your corpse is identified as being the most spread out of the dozens of red smears where a platoon shooting at you used to be.

i think the idea would be to use your powers on an area of air infront of you and then just not allow things to move inside that area. you cant say thats not possible with telekinetic powers because you dont have telekinetic powers, and so you dont know how they would act were they to exist.

 

[Right Hook]

I'd go with the jumping, way more convenient and the force power is a lot less useful unless you planned on fighting people and then you'd essentially become a villain even if you had good intentions because the meat-head police would never let someone stronger than them fight bad guys because to admit someone was better than them would cause their tiny nuts to shrivel into dust.

So yeah...I'd go with the jumping, being able to just go wherever I want instantly would be so great, I'd just jump to deserted islands and enjoy the solitude for a couple hours, it would be so great.

 

[Rowan93]

actually in the movie chronicle, the power gets stronger the more you use it, theres no limit known but just know you coulde level multiple buildings in a matter of days.

Also jumpers can teleport anything theyre holding onto with them. but jumpers cant jump while being shocked with electricity.

also also neither are invulnerable and you can die, but the force power cant stop attacks if you lock on to whats coming at you.

Sure, the telekinesis itself is high-power, I'm talking about the "tier" that telekinesis is on. Any goal you want to achieve with telekinesis you can also achieve with teleportation, and the way you would go about it with that power is generally safer and more reliable, but less fun.

Wait..... what?

How are you going to crush a car with the Jumpers power? Or knock and army of soldiers back, lift a building etc.

They're two very different powers and their applications are just as different.

Teleportation isn't generally an offensive power, characters like nightcrawler etc use it offensively, but it's not got anywhere near the same level of combat applications as telekinesis.

Your end goal in crushing a car isn't just to crush the car (usually) - maybe you want to kill everyone inside? maybe you want to stop someone from commuting?
Walk out into the street so the driver swerves and crashes, disappear before you get hit. Slit their throats in the middle of the night. Teleport into the back seat, and leave behind a pipe bomb.

If you're trying to knock back an army of soldiers, your goal is something like "fight off the army without getting killed in the process" - jump from place to place faster than the enemy can aim, and you can take down a platoon with a box cutter.

Winning against a platoon of soldiers with telekinesis is difficult unless you have superhuman senses and reaction speeds, because that's what you need to even have a vague idea of where a bullet is in-between the time that it's inside a gun and the time that it's inside your spleen.

If you want to collapse a building... well, that's going to be more tedious, you'll have to steal a bunch of explosives and set up the building to explode, and doing it properly will take a few days of preparation, but if you do it right you won't even get caught. While on the other hand wrecking it with telekinesis will give you all kinds of trouble you don't want to have to deal with.

That's like saying everything your hands you can do your feet can to.

The fact of the matter is you can't do everything a person with TK could do with TP.

I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the actual ability to do something, like what you were letting on to.

Also, it's pretty much par for the course that high level TK's can create forcefields etc. So it really isn't about stopping each individual bullet, but creating an area around you that bullets won't pass through, think Magneto in whichever Xman film he does that in. Same idea.

I specifically said "any goals you can achieve" instead of just saying "anything you can do" because I was talking about results. I don't know how you can get that I was letting onto something that I structured the whole sentence arount not implying.

Forcefields in that sense aren't things you can actually produce, though. Not only are they not real, which on its own wouldn't matter, but being able to create a solid thing made of force just by being able to apply forces to things would deny what we know about what force is.

You can't achieve levitating something in the air..... Like a building.

And you must be joking, what's real and what isn't where powers are concerned is down entirely to whoevers writing the damn story. Telekinesis isn't real if you're going to go down the pedantic route.

And I wasn't talking about a psychic construct, which is a different power altogether. But a field of energy around the person that stops things before they hit the person. Not a solid barrier, just a field of density. Thousands of telekenets do that in stories, and although I haven't seen chronicle yet, I find it hard to imagine they can't do it.

Well, yeah, but that's a stupid goal. Levitating a building is always either a means to an end (levitate building -> drop building on target -> kill that guy) or just mucking about. If your goal is to muck about, waste time, and generally misuse your powers, there are plenty of things you can do with teleportation as well.

My point wasn't that they're not real - and, again, this is something I've been over in the thing I just said that you're responding to. I'm saying that a solid object made of force is nonsense, it's like a circle with corners, and you can't just decide that telekinesis gives you the power to do nonsense.

...Do you mean compressing the air in the space between you and the enemy into a solid? That might work, but it'd be problematic for when you want to drop the shield and it basically explodes everywhere.
If that's not what you're getting at, can you try to explain it in a way that makes sense? "Field of density" doesn't really.

Then what you meant is like saying 'Anything you can do with your hands you can do with your feet.'

You could 'Kill that guy' or 'muck about' with more or less any power. You could also do them without powers, so the comparison is neither here nor there.

And a telekenets force field is usually just an area around them that they control, either by increasing the airs density or simply using their ability (however it works) to effect anything that enters is, either by flooding it with energy or just mentally stopping in anything that passes the area, it's been a part of any good TK's arsenal for years.

I suppose you could argue that, but my original point was that teleportation would be better at achieving goals. If you decide, for instance, that you want to bring down the Chinese government, you can do that with a bit of research, a good sharp knife, and about an hour spent assassinating everything.

See, you're not really explaining how it's able to make sense. To have creating shields as part of as part of your arsenal when your power is just telekinesis, you have to be able to explain how you would go about doing that. Unless this stupidity has specifically been used in Chronicle, I'm not going to just accept that the power allows it, because it's a completely distinct thing from telekinesis.

yea. you could do that. Or you could do an Akira and openly crush the entire military. Ware a mask if you're worried about identity.

And it makes just as much sense as being able to lift something with your mind. Tell me how that would logically work? Reducing gravities effect on it? Pushing air underneath it? Using giant invisible arms? It depends how the writers want it to work as to how the ability works.

Personally, if I was writing it. I'd say that you just concentrate on the area around you, focusing so you grab everything that passes it. There's no real need to focus on individual items such as bullets.

Well, yeah, that's the point, that's the different approaches. And I'm saying teleportation is better in that regard there because a reasonably sized detachment of the military could stop you before you made a decent amount of progress.

That's not the issue here. The issue is being able to lift something with your mind leading to being able to make solid things made of force (which makes no sense). If I accept for the purposes of discussion that telekinesis makes sense, I'm under no obligation to accept another distinct bit of nonsense without good reason.

That results in throwing the air around you outwards with just as much force as you'd be applying to the bullets to slow them down. Your corpse is identified as being the most spread out of the dozens of red smears where a platoon shooting at you used to be.

Yea... Just like Akira.......

High level TK's ruin armies. They crumble them.

And it's not throwing air out, it's concentrating on an area and not allowing anything past. It's an accepted part of the high level TK's bundle whether you like it or not.

Even with forcefields, a thermobaric weapon will ruin your day because of all the suffocating you'll shortly be doing - making the shield airtight would kill you anyway. And on that topic, welcome to chemical weapons galore. Of course your real risk is a sniper shot to the back of the head at the very instant you lower your shield.
And of course without forcefields, attacking a single army platoon is a very risky proposition and going head-on against anything bigger is suicide.

And that's not something you can do with telekinesis, because that's not what the word means.

If an individual character has telekinesis and is shown to be able to make forcefields, this represents two divergences from reality. Either they have two powers, or they have one power and the laws of physics are completely different in their universe to allow these kinds of forcefields to happen. This is true even if every single fictional character with telekinesis can do this (at least assuming that that didn't change the definition of telekinesis to include forcefields, but we can hope that at least the dictionary people can continue being sane).
If we're just talking about telekinesis, we don't include the additional divergence from reality that forcefields represent, because things are like reality unless noted.

(

i think the idea would be to use your powers on an area of air infront of you and then just not allow things to move inside that area. you cant say thats not possible with telekinetic powers because you dont have telekinetic powers, and so you dont know how they would act were they to exist.

Actually, I can say how telekinetic powers would act. I can say, for instance, that telekinesis does not entail heat vision.

Telekinesis is the ability to apply force to objects with your mind (well, it's moving objects with your mind, but you can't get movement without force). You can't be selective with what objects to move if you can't perceive them, and you can't perceive a bullet while it's in flight if you don't have both superhuman senses and superhuman response time, neither of which are parts of the telekinesis package, they're part of the more general "psychic powers" package.

 

[The87Italians]

Part of me really wants teleport, but I'm going with telekinesis. Just the thought of being stuck in a wall or somewhere worse after a jump is enough to make me not want to do it.

 

[Nyaoku]

Telekinesis. You can fly anywhere in the world in less than a day so ... there goes the jumping thing. Bringing friends with you would also be easier. Also, it's easier to maintain a regular life with benefits. Your car wouldn't need gas or ever break down so you could drive around in whatever you want. Also, by causing friction burns with the air, you'd also get pyromancy. Let's think about this for a sec.

 

[Lucane]

Okay, every one who's been picking Jumping/Teleporting? you're all forgetting one very important detail...

Spoiler

You can't be sure the location you go to will be safe to enter.
Examples:
Going to a famous land mark: Easy to remember but high-traffic area just dropping in you might end up occupying the same space as a tourist which might get messy.
Picking "Abandoned" buildings: Normally Empty low-traffic areas can be mark for demolition and your warping into an explosion.
Something on street level: Bad Driver or some other accident happens and is heading right at you.(Bullets from a shoot-out, Fire from a tanker truck, Car rolling down a hill left in neutral etc.
Having terrible bad luck: A falling plane a few feet where you happen to arrive. [spoiler/]

In Chronicle's version of Telekinesis Flight can get pretty fast so I'd have to go with that one seen I can also make an aura around me preventing strong impacts among other things

You'd basically be a sup'd up Jean Grey before Phoenix and without Telepathy.

 

[Ix Rebound]

Telekenesis. It has so many applications, like hovering drinks towards me or smashing an ex-GFs skull in, maybe fly around town while ripping an ex GFs skeleton right out of them.

for the sake of your ex-GF i hope you don't get superpowers

 

[Shoqiyqa]

You can't be selective with what objects to move if you can't perceive them, and you can't perceive a bullet while it's in flight if you don't have both superhuman senses and superhuman response time, neither of which are parts of the telekinesis package, they're part of the more general "psychic powers" package.

You can't perceive the air all that clearly, either, but apparently you can move it. Just hold it very still and the bullet'll splatter on it. If you can't do that, yank up a layer of tarmac or concrete or mud or whatever's around and hold that in the way. Heck, hold aluminium foil in the way. As long as you're holding it really firmly, it'll splash lead. Use cellophane so you can still see what you're doing. Bulletproof cellophane!

 

[Rowan93]

actually in the movie chronicle, the power gets stronger the more you use it, theres no limit known but just know you coulde level multiple buildings in a matter of days.

Also jumpers can teleport anything theyre holding onto with them. but jumpers cant jump while being shocked with electricity.

also also neither are invulnerable and you can die, but the force power cant stop attacks if you lock on to whats coming at you.

Sure, the telekinesis itself is high-power, I'm talking about the "tier" that telekinesis is on. Any goal you want to achieve with telekinesis you can also achieve with teleportation, and the way you would go about it with that power is generally safer and more reliable, but less fun.

Wait..... what?

How are you going to crush a car with the Jumpers power? Or knock and army of soldiers back, lift a building etc.

They're two very different powers and their applications are just as different.

Teleportation isn't generally an offensive power, characters like nightcrawler etc use it offensively, but it's not got anywhere near the same level of combat applications as telekinesis.

Your end goal in crushing a car isn't just to crush the car (usually) - maybe you want to kill everyone inside? maybe you want to stop someone from commuting?
Walk out into the street so the driver swerves and crashes, disappear before you get hit. Slit their throats in the middle of the night. Teleport into the back seat, and leave behind a pipe bomb.

If you're trying to knock back an army of soldiers, your goal is something like "fight off the army without getting killed in the process" - jump from place to place faster than the enemy can aim, and you can take down a platoon with a box cutter.

Winning against a platoon of soldiers with telekinesis is difficult unless you have superhuman senses and reaction speeds, because that's what you need to even have a vague idea of where a bullet is in-between the time that it's inside a gun and the time that it's inside your spleen.

If you want to collapse a building... well, that's going to be more tedious, you'll have to steal a bunch of explosives and set up the building to explode, and doing it properly will take a few days of preparation, but if you do it right you won't even get caught. While on the other hand wrecking it with telekinesis will give you all kinds of trouble you don't want to have to deal with.

That's like saying everything your hands you can do your feet can to.

The fact of the matter is you can't do everything a person with TK could do with TP.

I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the actual ability to do something, like what you were letting on to.

Also, it's pretty much par for the course that high level TK's can create forcefields etc. So it really isn't about stopping each individual bullet, but creating an area around you that bullets won't pass through, think Magneto in whichever Xman film he does that in. Same idea.

I specifically said "any goals you can achieve" instead of just saying "anything you can do" because I was talking about results. I don't know how you can get that I was letting onto something that I structured the whole sentence arount not implying.

Forcefields in that sense aren't things you can actually produce, though. Not only are they not real, which on its own wouldn't matter, but being able to create a solid thing made of force just by being able to apply forces to things would deny what we know about what force is.

You can't achieve levitating something in the air..... Like a building.

And you must be joking, what's real and what isn't where powers are concerned is down entirely to whoevers writing the damn story. Telekinesis isn't real if you're going to go down the pedantic route.

And I wasn't talking about a psychic construct, which is a different power altogether. But a field of energy around the person that stops things before they hit the person. Not a solid barrier, just a field of density. Thousands of telekenets do that in stories, and although I haven't seen chronicle yet, I find it hard to imagine they can't do it.

Well, yeah, but that's a stupid goal. Levitating a building is always either a means to an end (levitate building -> drop building on target -> kill that guy) or just mucking about. If your goal is to muck about, waste time, and generally misuse your powers, there are plenty of things you can do with teleportation as well.

My point wasn't that they're not real - and, again, this is something I've been over in the thing I just said that you're responding to. I'm saying that a solid object made of force is nonsense, it's like a circle with corners, and you can't just decide that telekinesis gives you the power to do nonsense.

...Do you mean compressing the air in the space between you and the enemy into a solid? That might work, but it'd be problematic for when you want to drop the shield and it basically explodes everywhere.
If that's not what you're getting at, can you try to explain it in a way that makes sense? "Field of density" doesn't really.

Then what you meant is like saying 'Anything you can do with your hands you can do with your feet.'

You could 'Kill that guy' or 'muck about' with more or less any power. You could also do them without powers, so the comparison is neither here nor there.

And a telekenets force field is usually just an area around them that they control, either by increasing the airs density or simply using their ability (however it works) to effect anything that enters is, either by flooding it with energy or just mentally stopping in anything that passes the area, it's been a part of any good TK's arsenal for years.

I suppose you could argue that, but my original point was that teleportation would be better at achieving goals. If you decide, for instance, that you want to bring down the Chinese government, you can do that with a bit of research, a good sharp knife, and about an hour spent assassinating everything.

See, you're not really explaining how it's able to make sense. To have creating shields as part of as part of your arsenal when your power is just telekinesis, you have to be able to explain how you would go about doing that. Unless this stupidity has specifically been used in Chronicle, I'm not going to just accept that the power allows it, because it's a completely distinct thing from telekinesis.

yea. you could do that. Or you could do an Akira and openly crush the entire military. Ware a mask if you're worried about identity.

And it makes just as much sense as being able to lift something with your mind. Tell me how that would logically work? Reducing gravities effect on it? Pushing air underneath it? Using giant invisible arms? It depends how the writers want it to work as to how the ability works.

Personally, if I was writing it. I'd say that you just concentrate on the area around you, focusing so you grab everything that passes it. There's no real need to focus on individual items such as bullets.

Well, yeah, that's the point, that's the different approaches. And I'm saying teleportation is better in that regard there because a reasonably sized detachment of the military could stop you before you made a decent amount of progress.

That's not the issue here. The issue is being able to lift something with your mind leading to being able to make solid things made of force (which makes no sense). If I accept for the purposes of discussion that telekinesis makes sense, I'm under no obligation to accept another distinct bit of nonsense without good reason.

That results in throwing the air around you outwards with just as much force as you'd be applying to the bullets to slow them down. Your corpse is identified as being the most spread out of the dozens of red smears where a platoon shooting at you used to be.

Yea... Just like Akira.......

High level TK's ruin armies. They crumble them.

And it's not throwing air out, it's concentrating on an area and not allowing anything past. It's an accepted part of the high level TK's bundle whether you like it or not.

Even with forcefields, a thermobaric weapon will ruin your day because of all the suffocating you'll shortly be doing - making the shield airtight would kill you anyway. And on that topic, welcome to chemical weapons galore. Of course your real risk is a sniper shot to the back of the head at the very instant you lower your shield.
And of course without forcefields, attacking a single army platoon is a very risky proposition and going head-on against anything bigger is suicide.

And that's not something you can do with telekinesis, because that's not what the word means.

If an individual character has telekinesis and is shown to be able to make forcefields, this represents two divergences from reality. Either they have two powers, or they have one power and the laws of physics are completely different in their universe to allow these kinds of forcefields to happen. This is true even if every single fictional character with telekinesis can do this (at least assuming that that didn't change the definition of telekinesis to include forcefields, but we can hope that at least the dictionary people can continue being sane).
If we're just talking about telekinesis, we don't include the additional divergence from reality that forcefields represent, because things are like reality unless noted.

Do you even read what I say or do you just post whatever you fancy?

I said nothing about psychic constructs which is what you're talking about, I've explained this like 4 different times now.

It's not a solid forcefield, it's just stopping anything moving from passing an area. That is a direct extension of telekinesis.

I'm not even going to argue anymore, high level TK's ruin armies. Disagree with that all you like, I really couldn't give a shit anymore. Argue until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it's down to the writer of the story.

Telekinesis is no more reduced to simply moving something with your mind than pyrokinesis is reduced to a flame moving. The words have been around for decades, they aren't complete descriptions of a power but a handy bracket you can group powers into.

Stopping anything moving involves either producing some kind of construct or being able to individually control the anythings to make it look like you can. For the latter, you may as well try and stop the bullets individually, it's easier.

Well, of course it's down to the writer of the story when you're talking about stories, but that's not what the discussion started from.

You can't be selective with what objects to move if you can't perceive them, and you can't perceive a bullet while it's in flight if you don't have both superhuman senses and superhuman response time, neither of which are parts of the telekinesis package, they're part of the more general "psychic powers" package.

You can't perceive the air all that clearly, either, but apparently you can move it. Just hold it very still and the bullet'll splatter on it. If you can't do that, yank up a layer of tarmac or concrete or mud or whatever's around and hold that in the way. Heck, hold aluminium foil in the way. As long as you're holding it really firmly, it'll splash lead. Use cellophane so you can still see what you're doing. Bulletproof cellophane!

Well, yeah, the air is moving because you stop caring about what you can perceive and use the powers to move everything in a particular area.

To hold something still requires pushing against the forces acting on it. When you're holding a physical object, you can feel those forces, so it's easy, but what happens when you can't feel what's hitting the surface?
Sure, the concrete would work, but the rest will be trouble.

 

[Rowan93]

actually in the movie chronicle, the power gets stronger the more you use it, theres no limit known but just know you coulde level multiple buildings in a matter of days.

Also jumpers can teleport anything theyre holding onto with them. but jumpers cant jump while being shocked with electricity.

also also neither are invulnerable and you can die, but the force power cant stop attacks if you lock on to whats coming at you.

Sure, the telekinesis itself is high-power, I'm talking about the "tier" that telekinesis is on. Any goal you want to achieve with telekinesis you can also achieve with teleportation, and the way you would go about it with that power is generally safer and more reliable, but less fun.

Wait..... what?

How are you going to crush a car with the Jumpers power? Or knock and army of soldiers back, lift a building etc.

They're two very different powers and their applications are just as different.

Teleportation isn't generally an offensive power, characters like nightcrawler etc use it offensively, but it's not got anywhere near the same level of combat applications as telekinesis.

Your end goal in crushing a car isn't just to crush the car (usually) - maybe you want to kill everyone inside? maybe you want to stop someone from commuting?
Walk out into the street so the driver swerves and crashes, disappear before you get hit. Slit their throats in the middle of the night. Teleport into the back seat, and leave behind a pipe bomb.

If you're trying to knock back an army of soldiers, your goal is something like "fight off the army without getting killed in the process" - jump from place to place faster than the enemy can aim, and you can take down a platoon with a box cutter.

Winning against a platoon of soldiers with telekinesis is difficult unless you have superhuman senses and reaction speeds, because that's what you need to even have a vague idea of where a bullet is in-between the time that it's inside a gun and the time that it's inside your spleen.

If you want to collapse a building... well, that's going to be more tedious, you'll have to steal a bunch of explosives and set up the building to explode, and doing it properly will take a few days of preparation, but if you do it right you won't even get caught. While on the other hand wrecking it with telekinesis will give you all kinds of trouble you don't want to have to deal with.

That's like saying everything your hands you can do your feet can to.

The fact of the matter is you can't do everything a person with TK could do with TP.

I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the actual ability to do something, like what you were letting on to.

Also, it's pretty much par for the course that high level TK's can create forcefields etc. So it really isn't about stopping each individual bullet, but creating an area around you that bullets won't pass through, think Magneto in whichever Xman film he does that in. Same idea.

I specifically said "any goals you can achieve" instead of just saying "anything you can do" because I was talking about results. I don't know how you can get that I was letting onto something that I structured the whole sentence arount not implying.

Forcefields in that sense aren't things you can actually produce, though. Not only are they not real, which on its own wouldn't matter, but being able to create a solid thing made of force just by being able to apply forces to things would deny what we know about what force is.

You can't achieve levitating something in the air..... Like a building.

And you must be joking, what's real and what isn't where powers are concerned is down entirely to whoevers writing the damn story. Telekinesis isn't real if you're going to go down the pedantic route.

And I wasn't talking about a psychic construct, which is a different power altogether. But a field of energy around the person that stops things before they hit the person. Not a solid barrier, just a field of density. Thousands of telekenets do that in stories, and although I haven't seen chronicle yet, I find it hard to imagine they can't do it.

Well, yeah, but that's a stupid goal. Levitating a building is always either a means to an end (levitate building -> drop building on target -> kill that guy) or just mucking about. If your goal is to muck about, waste time, and generally misuse your powers, there are plenty of things you can do with teleportation as well.

My point wasn't that they're not real - and, again, this is something I've been over in the thing I just said that you're responding to. I'm saying that a solid object made of force is nonsense, it's like a circle with corners, and you can't just decide that telekinesis gives you the power to do nonsense.

...Do you mean compressing the air in the space between you and the enemy into a solid? That might work, but it'd be problematic for when you want to drop the shield and it basically explodes everywhere.
If that's not what you're getting at, can you try to explain it in a way that makes sense? "Field of density" doesn't really.

Then what you meant is like saying 'Anything you can do with your hands you can do with your feet.'

You could 'Kill that guy' or 'muck about' with more or less any power. You could also do them without powers, so the comparison is neither here nor there.

And a telekenets force field is usually just an area around them that they control, either by increasing the airs density or simply using their ability (however it works) to effect anything that enters is, either by flooding it with energy or just mentally stopping in anything that passes the area, it's been a part of any good TK's arsenal for years.

I suppose you could argue that, but my original point was that teleportation would be better at achieving goals. If you decide, for instance, that you want to bring down the Chinese government, you can do that with a bit of research, a good sharp knife, and about an hour spent assassinating everything.

See, you're not really explaining how it's able to make sense. To have creating shields as part of as part of your arsenal when your power is just telekinesis, you have to be able to explain how you would go about doing that. Unless this stupidity has specifically been used in Chronicle, I'm not going to just accept that the power allows it, because it's a completely distinct thing from telekinesis.

yea. you could do that. Or you could do an Akira and openly crush the entire military. Ware a mask if you're worried about identity.

And it makes just as much sense as being able to lift something with your mind. Tell me how that would logically work? Reducing gravities effect on it? Pushing air underneath it? Using giant invisible arms? It depends how the writers want it to work as to how the ability works.

Personally, if I was writing it. I'd say that you just concentrate on the area around you, focusing so you grab everything that passes it. There's no real need to focus on individual items such as bullets.

Well, yeah, that's the point, that's the different approaches. And I'm saying teleportation is better in that regard there because a reasonably sized detachment of the military could stop you before you made a decent amount of progress.

That's not the issue here. The issue is being able to lift something with your mind leading to being able to make solid things made of force (which makes no sense). If I accept for the purposes of discussion that telekinesis makes sense, I'm under no obligation to accept another distinct bit of nonsense without good reason.

That results in throwing the air around you outwards with just as much force as you'd be applying to the bullets to slow them down. Your corpse is identified as being the most spread out of the dozens of red smears where a platoon shooting at you used to be.

Yea... Just like Akira.......

High level TK's ruin armies. They crumble them.

And it's not throwing air out, it's concentrating on an area and not allowing anything past. It's an accepted part of the high level TK's bundle whether you like it or not.

Even with forcefields, a thermobaric weapon will ruin your day because of all the suffocating you'll shortly be doing - making the shield airtight would kill you anyway. And on that topic, welcome to chemical weapons galore. Of course your real risk is a sniper shot to the back of the head at the very instant you lower your shield.
And of course without forcefields, attacking a single army platoon is a very risky proposition and going head-on against anything bigger is suicide.

And that's not something you can do with telekinesis, because that's not what the word means.

If an individual character has telekinesis and is shown to be able to make forcefields, this represents two divergences from reality. Either they have two powers, or they have one power and the laws of physics are completely different in their universe to allow these kinds of forcefields to happen. This is true even if every single fictional character with telekinesis can do this (at least assuming that that didn't change the definition of telekinesis to include forcefields, but we can hope that at least the dictionary people can continue being sane).
If we're just talking about telekinesis, we don't include the additional divergence from reality that forcefields represent, because things are like reality unless noted.

Do you even read what I say or do you just post whatever you fancy?

I said nothing about psychic constructs which is what you're talking about, I've explained this like 4 different times now.

It's not a solid forcefield, it's just stopping anything moving from passing an area. That is a direct extension of telekinesis.

I'm not even going to argue anymore, high level TK's ruin armies. Disagree with that all you like, I really couldn't give a shit anymore. Argue until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it's down to the writer of the story.

Telekinesis is no more reduced to simply moving something with your mind than pyrokinesis is reduced to a flame moving. The words have been around for decades, they aren't complete descriptions of a power but a handy bracket you can group powers into.

Stopping anything moving involves either producing some kind of construct or being able to individually control the anythings to make it look like you can. For the latter, you may as well try and stop the bullets individually, it's easier.

Well, of course it's down to the writer of the story when you're talking about stories, but that's not what the discussion started from.

No it doesn't, you're applying real world logic to a person who can lift a building with his mind.

What's to say they simply can't stop anything that passes a selected area? You? I don't really think your opinion matters personally.

And yes it was to do with what a writer thinks. The OP said the powers were based on Chronicle, I haven't seen chronicle yet but I do know it's based heavily on Akira and there's a scene at the end that is a homage to Tetsuo's Rampage through Neon Tokyo. I'd be ballsing surprised if Andrew doesn't stop bullets.

Well, what should I be applying, bizarro universe logic? We're talking about a hypothetical situation that involves putting a thing that doesn't really exist into the real world, if you don't want to apply real-world logic to it then how are you supposed o make any progress?

I think we've gathered that neither of us have seen chronicle, and so we're just talking about telekinesis in general. But yeah, if any of the characters stop bullets, the discussion becomes irrelevant, since the example of telekinesis in question comes with the ability to stop bullets (whether that's actually something TK on its own allows or not).

 

[TheNaut131]

Telekinesis would get me in less trouble.
Teleportation would just get me assassinated by some governmental black ops team for being a huge potential risk to national security.

I'm pretty sure telekinesis would get your brain cut open at some point.

 

[Rowan93]

actually in the movie chronicle, the power gets stronger the more you use it, theres no limit known but just know you coulde level multiple buildings in a matter of days.

Also jumpers can teleport anything theyre holding onto with them. but jumpers cant jump while being shocked with electricity.

also also neither are invulnerable and you can die, but the force power cant stop attacks if you lock on to whats coming at you.

Sure, the telekinesis itself is high-power, I'm talking about the "tier" that telekinesis is on. Any goal you want to achieve with telekinesis you can also achieve with teleportation, and the way you would go about it with that power is generally safer and more reliable, but less fun.

Wait..... what?

How are you going to crush a car with the Jumpers power? Or knock and army of soldiers back, lift a building etc.

They're two very different powers and their applications are just as different.

Teleportation isn't generally an offensive power, characters like nightcrawler etc use it offensively, but it's not got anywhere near the same level of combat applications as telekinesis.

Your end goal in crushing a car isn't just to crush the car (usually) - maybe you want to kill everyone inside? maybe you want to stop someone from commuting?
Walk out into the street so the driver swerves and crashes, disappear before you get hit. Slit their throats in the middle of the night. Teleport into the back seat, and leave behind a pipe bomb.

If you're trying to knock back an army of soldiers, your goal is something like "fight off the army without getting killed in the process" - jump from place to place faster than the enemy can aim, and you can take down a platoon with a box cutter.

Winning against a platoon of soldiers with telekinesis is difficult unless you have superhuman senses and reaction speeds, because that's what you need to even have a vague idea of where a bullet is in-between the time that it's inside a gun and the time that it's inside your spleen.

If you want to collapse a building... well, that's going to be more tedious, you'll have to steal a bunch of explosives and set up the building to explode, and doing it properly will take a few days of preparation, but if you do it right you won't even get caught. While on the other hand wrecking it with telekinesis will give you all kinds of trouble you don't want to have to deal with.

That's like saying everything your hands you can do your feet can to.

The fact of the matter is you can't do everything a person with TK could do with TP.

I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the actual ability to do something, like what you were letting on to.

Also, it's pretty much par for the course that high level TK's can create forcefields etc. So it really isn't about stopping each individual bullet, but creating an area around you that bullets won't pass through, think Magneto in whichever Xman film he does that in. Same idea.

I specifically said "any goals you can achieve" instead of just saying "anything you can do" because I was talking about results. I don't know how you can get that I was letting onto something that I structured the whole sentence arount not implying.

Forcefields in that sense aren't things you can actually produce, though. Not only are they not real, which on its own wouldn't matter, but being able to create a solid thing made of force just by being able to apply forces to things would deny what we know about what force is.

You can't achieve levitating something in the air..... Like a building.

And you must be joking, what's real and what isn't where powers are concerned is down entirely to whoevers writing the damn story. Telekinesis isn't real if you're going to go down the pedantic route.

And I wasn't talking about a psychic construct, which is a different power altogether. But a field of energy around the person that stops things before they hit the person. Not a solid barrier, just a field of density. Thousands of telekenets do that in stories, and although I haven't seen chronicle yet, I find it hard to imagine they can't do it.

Well, yeah, but that's a stupid goal. Levitating a building is always either a means to an end (levitate building -> drop building on target -> kill that guy) or just mucking about. If your goal is to muck about, waste time, and generally misuse your powers, there are plenty of things you can do with teleportation as well.

My point wasn't that they're not real - and, again, this is something I've been over in the thing I just said that you're responding to. I'm saying that a solid object made of force is nonsense, it's like a circle with corners, and you can't just decide that telekinesis gives you the power to do nonsense.

...Do you mean compressing the air in the space between you and the enemy into a solid? That might work, but it'd be problematic for when you want to drop the shield and it basically explodes everywhere.
If that's not what you're getting at, can you try to explain it in a way that makes sense? "Field of density" doesn't really.

Then what you meant is like saying 'Anything you can do with your hands you can do with your feet.'

You could 'Kill that guy' or 'muck about' with more or less any power. You could also do them without powers, so the comparison is neither here nor there.

And a telekenets force field is usually just an area around them that they control, either by increasing the airs density or simply using their ability (however it works) to effect anything that enters is, either by flooding it with energy or just mentally stopping in anything that passes the area, it's been a part of any good TK's arsenal for years.

I suppose you could argue that, but my original point was that teleportation would be better at achieving goals. If you decide, for instance, that you want to bring down the Chinese government, you can do that with a bit of research, a good sharp knife, and about an hour spent assassinating everything.

See, you're not really explaining how it's able to make sense. To have creating shields as part of as part of your arsenal when your power is just telekinesis, you have to be able to explain how you would go about doing that. Unless this stupidity has specifically been used in Chronicle, I'm not going to just accept that the power allows it, because it's a completely distinct thing from telekinesis.

yea. you could do that. Or you could do an Akira and openly crush the entire military. Ware a mask if you're worried about identity.

And it makes just as much sense as being able to lift something with your mind. Tell me how that would logically work? Reducing gravities effect on it? Pushing air underneath it? Using giant invisible arms? It depends how the writers want it to work as to how the ability works.

Personally, if I was writing it. I'd say that you just concentrate on the area around you, focusing so you grab everything that passes it. There's no real need to focus on individual items such as bullets.

Well, yeah, that's the point, that's the different approaches. And I'm saying teleportation is better in that regard there because a reasonably sized detachment of the military could stop you before you made a decent amount of progress.

That's not the issue here. The issue is being able to lift something with your mind leading to being able to make solid things made of force (which makes no sense). If I accept for the purposes of discussion that telekinesis makes sense, I'm under no obligation to accept another distinct bit of nonsense without good reason.

That results in throwing the air around you outwards with just as much force as you'd be applying to the bullets to slow them down. Your corpse is identified as being the most spread out of the dozens of red smears where a platoon shooting at you used to be.

Yea... Just like Akira.......

High level TK's ruin armies. They crumble them.

And it's not throwing air out, it's concentrating on an area and not allowing anything past. It's an accepted part of the high level TK's bundle whether you like it or not.

Even with forcefields, a thermobaric weapon will ruin your day because of all the suffocating you'll shortly be doing - making the shield airtight would kill you anyway. And on that topic, welcome to chemical weapons galore. Of course your real risk is a sniper shot to the back of the head at the very instant you lower your shield.
And of course without forcefields, attacking a single army platoon is a very risky proposition and going head-on against anything bigger is suicide.

And that's not something you can do with telekinesis, because that's not what the word means.

If an individual character has telekinesis and is shown to be able to make forcefields, this represents two divergences from reality. Either they have two powers, or they have one power and the laws of physics are completely different in their universe to allow these kinds of forcefields to happen. This is true even if every single fictional character with telekinesis can do this (at least assuming that that didn't change the definition of telekinesis to include forcefields, but we can hope that at least the dictionary people can continue being sane).
If we're just talking about telekinesis, we don't include the additional divergence from reality that forcefields represent, because things are like reality unless noted.

Do you even read what I say or do you just post whatever you fancy?

I said nothing about psychic constructs which is what you're talking about, I've explained this like 4 different times now.

It's not a solid forcefield, it's just stopping anything moving from passing an area. That is a direct extension of telekinesis.

I'm not even going to argue anymore, high level TK's ruin armies. Disagree with that all you like, I really couldn't give a shit anymore. Argue until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it's down to the writer of the story.

Telekinesis is no more reduced to simply moving something with your mind than pyrokinesis is reduced to a flame moving. The words have been around for decades, they aren't complete descriptions of a power but a handy bracket you can group powers into.

Stopping anything moving involves either producing some kind of construct or being able to individually control the anythings to make it look like you can. For the latter, you may as well try and stop the bullets individually, it's easier.

Well, of course it's down to the writer of the story when you're talking about stories, but that's not what the discussion started from.

No it doesn't, you're applying real world logic to a person who can lift a building with his mind.

What's to say they simply can't stop anything that passes a selected area? You? I don't really think your opinion matters personally.

And yes it was to do with what a writer thinks. The OP said the powers were based on Chronicle, I haven't seen chronicle yet but I do know it's based heavily on Akira and there's a scene at the end that is a homage to Tetsuo's Rampage through Neon Tokyo. I'd be ballsing surprised if Andrew doesn't stop bullets.

Well, what should I be applying, bizarro universe logic? We're talking about a hypothetical situation that involves putting a thing that doesn't really exist into the real world, if you don't want to apply real-world logic to it then how are you supposed o make any progress?

I think we've gathered that neither of us have seen chronicle, and so we're just talking about telekinesis in general. But yeah, if any of the characters stop bullets, the discussion becomes irrelevant, since the example of telekinesis in question comes with the ability to stop bullets (whether that's actually something TK on its own allows or not).

Let me ask you this. If a person has the mental juice to lift a friggin building with nothing but happy thoughts... what exactly is stopping him from stopping anything moving past a certain point? Why is one totally acceptable whilst the other breaks all teh physics n shit?

Telekinesis is generally quite a broad term, it really hasn't meant levitating cups n saucers for a long time. A lot of similar powers got absorbed into it a while back.

It generally now entails being able to create blasts of force, being able to fly, being able to crush objects (not just move them) and being able to stop objects, even large quantities of them moving at high speeds.

I think to resolve this debate we'd have to agree on a definition of telekinesis, and that's blatantly not going to happen.