Poll: Just a poll about pirating.

[Seldon2639]

Pirating is not stealing, It's copying without permission. If I download a CD I don't steal the CD from someone else, I get a new copy of it without paying. Big difference.

Okay, screw the rest of the argument, this is crap. Pirating is stealing. It is taking something without paying that you would otherwise have to pay for. Call it copying, call it piracy, call it a hula dance, you're still taking something you should be paying for.

The issue with stealing isn't just whether you deprive another customer of the product, but that you deprive the creator of the money they should get. If you made a knock-off of the iPod (in violation of copyrights), and then sold it for either reduced price, or gave it away, you've taken sales away from the actual creator.

The existence of digital products seems to have muddied the waters on this (since most digital products can be easily reproduced in a way a stereo can't be), but from the perspective of the creator (rather than other consumers), there's little difference between "I bought a stereo some guy took out of a car" and "I got a copy of a song without paying for it". In both cases, the first customer paid for the product, and the second user didn't. Actually, the first case is better for the producer, since then the original customer likely has to buy a new stereo.

We can argue the morality of it, and whether theft of intellectual property should be the same as theft of physical property, but let's call a spade a spade, and say that theft is theft.

 

[The Shade]

Pirating is not stealing, It's copying without permission. If I download a CD I don't steal the CD from someone else, I get a new copy of it without paying. Big difference.

Okay, screw the rest of the argument, this is crap. Pirating is stealing. It is taking something without paying that you would otherwise have to pay for. Call it copying, call it piracy, call it a hula dance, you're still taking something you should be paying for.

The issue with stealing isn't just whether you deprive another customer of the product, but that you deprive the creator of the money they should get. If you made a knock-off of the iPod (in violation of copyrights), and then sold it for either reduced price, or gave it away, you've taken sales away from the actual creator.

The existence of digital products seems to have muddied the waters on this (since most digital products can be easily reproduced in a way a stereo can't be), but from the perspective of the creator (rather than other consumers), there's little difference between "I bought a stereo some guy took out of a car" and "I got a copy of a song without paying for it". In both cases, the first customer paid for the product, and the second user didn't. Actually, the first case is better for the producer, since then the original customer likely has to buy a new stereo.

We can argue the morality of it, and whether theft of intellectual property should be the same as theft of physical property, but let's call a spade a spade, and say that theft is theft.

This.

Also, the argument that "I can't afford it, so I pirate it" is NOT a valid argument. If you can't afford a car, would you just go take someone else's?
Pirating software isn't different from other forms of theft just because you probably won't get caught.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

i think its wrong... but i really have no choice, i cant afford all the music and stuff i listen to today

This, basically. Except I only get free music downloads. I also use surfthechannel to watch old TV shows (like to catch up on missed episodes of Scrubs or Elven Lied, and so on), but I don't download them so it's not quite as bad. I adamantly refuse to pirate films or games, however. If I don't have the money, then I get it cheap on ebay (same if I can't find the stuff anywhere without pirating). Only music, that's my limit. However, as Sky said, it's still wrong and I know I shouldn't do it anyway.

Just curious here, but how is it less bad to watch a tv show if you don't download it?

And I'll add, to the TV show thing, that being in Denmark it's impossible to see practically any shows legally, be it online or otherwise. Either I find some way of watching it when it gets aired or I wait forever for the release of, say, season 4 of BSG and hope I don't accidentally stumble on a spoiler in the year or so I wait. I'd be more than happy to do it legally if they would provide me with a means to do it. I understand Hulu is an option for US folks, but I can't use it. So I downloaded the episodes of BSG and watched them as they aired. I don't really feel bad about it. As I have no other way of watching it I can't be denying them any profits and I'll buy the DVD set when it comes, as I do with every thing else.

Well, the thing is that the TV shows have already aired, and since I (sorry, my parents) have already paid for my TV license at university (not sure if you need a TV license in Denmark), I have every right to watch TV in my flat, including anything aired online (according to the terms and conditions). Therefore, watching shows online, even ones that haven't aired on normal TV yet in the UK (like I get Lost a week beforehand as it airs in the US before the UK), is within my rights as a license payer. However, by downloading the shows then I basically infringe the copyright that is attached to these shows unless doing so through an officially sanctioned downloader, such as the Download Manager for BBC Iplayer (time limits are put on each download, btw).

Alright. That makes sense. Cheers for clearing that up for me.

And yes, we also pay for tv license in Denmark, but that only covers our equivalent of BBC. I pay for the commercial channels to my cable company. And they don't really show a lot of interesting series.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

The existence of digital products seems to have muddied the waters on this (since most digital products can be easily reproduced in a way a stereo can't be), but from the perspective of the creator (rather than other consumers), there's little difference between "I bought a stereo some guy took out of a car" and "I got a copy of a song without paying for it". In both cases, the first customer paid for the product, and the second user didn't. Actually, the first case is better for the producer, since then the original customer likely has to buy a new stereo.

Pirating is not something new. Back in the the 50's and 60's people started to copy records and radio shows to tapes and later cassettes which was shared between friends.

And your comparison with stealing a physical object is not a good comparison. A better one is copying pages from a book (perhaps even the entire book) and taking them home. No one looses any money (not directly anyway) and saying otherwise is plain wrong. You cannot loose money from a sale that never happened. You don't even loose the object (song/film/whatever) copied, since it was, well, copied and not taken.

 

[captainordo]

Pirating games, movies, music ect. is just stupid. A, your underminding the free market system. Say that you want quality by supporting things you like. If its not good, you don't need it. B. Pirating ( or theft ) hurt the industry you are stealing from. The main reason for someone to make a game or song or movie is to get money. If they arn't getting money then they won't build the more games of create more songs or movies. Stealing kills the the industry and ultimitly destroyes your future enjoyment

Hmmm, must say that your point A can only be a valid point if the person pirating supports the idea of the free market (i.e. capitalism).
And to your point B: A lot of artists makes music, not for the money (they are secondary) but because they like making music. If they can live of it, then good for them.

I mean the song WRITERS. Not the artists. They are making if to support themselves wrather then just for fun. If it was just for fun, they would give it away.

 

[Mongodyr]

Text

I don't agree. We can argue the morality of it, but it will never be the same thing as stealing. The act of stealing constitues that you take another persons property. What if I pirate something I would never buy? Nobody loses anything, and I still get the game/cd/whatever. *NOTE* I'm not saying that it's acceptable. I'm not even saying that its better then stealing. I'm just saying that pirating and stealing is NOT the same thing.

When stealing something you give the persons you steal from a direct loss. When pirating, they don't lose money, they just do not gain any money. However slight the difference may be, it still is a difference. Well, I'm done... For now

 

[Xaryn Mar]

Ahhh, well I don't see the merit in a songwriter that is not also an artist. The only results I have seen of this is the drivel in mainstream music, so good riddance to them if they can't survive without others performing their songs.

 

[bodyklok]

I don't think theres much we can do about it.

 

[kazork]

Since i got Steam i haven't pirated any games anymore.
I pirated games because i was to lazy to go to the store. So know that i can download from steam i don't have to go.

 

[Gutrot Grimtoof]

my mantra is:

Only pirate what will not be supported, expanded upon, or played exstensively.

Now if somone offered me a solid service for "renting" pc games, I wouldn't pirate at all.
(inb4 not possible, it's just complicated)

Mind you, I only pirate maybe 1 "major" game a year, and maybe 2-3 older or smaller games.

 

[Yegargeburble]

You can't justify being a pirate. Anyone that tries to is just trying to make up for their selfish behavior.

I can justify it. I'm a selfish, uncaring bastard! ;-)

 

[DragonChi]

Companies ask too much money for movies, music, apps..etc. i can't afford all of that. what do they expect. I'm not Mr. money bags. especially for applications like Maya and Adobe PS. i don't know anyone who has either because they could afford it. its usually schools/colleges that buy them. I needed both on my PC so i can do work at home while i was in college. not to mention that right now, more people have less money. which is why we are seeing a lot of price cuts in consoles and games.

 

[dwightsteel]

We live in the digital age, where absolutely everything is done digitally. Companies can act all butt hurt about pirating, but the fact of the matter is, that until big brother starts up the thought police, this is gonna keep happening, despite tighter restrictions and more advanced DRM. a big solid "Whatever" I say. In the grand scheme of things, record companies, videogame developers, and production companies will continue to get stinking rich, and we will continue to steal from them till we're old, and decrepit, with hot nurses changing our old people diapers.

 

[Synek]

I only do it when its a old game or rare games. Damn stores never keep old good games.

 

[Iku Tri]

"you wouldn't steal a purse, you wouldn't steal a car, you wouldn't steal a baby, you wouldn't shoot a policeman then steal his helmet then go to the toilet in his helmet then give the helmet to the policemans griving widow and then steal it again? pirating movies is stealing"

best add ever even If It was just a fake one.

That was a real advert. [Well, except for the last part.] It's in some dvds.

/sigh no its a mock add I have already linked the video Its from: the IT crowd.

I saw that. It's not the same one I saw. [I meant to say there was a real one, but never saw the one you posted until now.]
Edit: This is the one I saw. Its similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pnjyrzkepo

 

[azadiscool]

When artists make salaries that are proportional to their contributions to humanity, then they have a right to complain. Music is all I pirate nowadays (steam has got me hooked), but I still think pirating anything is okay.

Rereading that last part, I feel I should justify that, but I've done it so many times on so many identical topics that I couldn't be arsed. (Hooray, British slang even though I am American!)

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

I concede that it's stealing and do it anyway. My friend Adam refuses to acknowledge it as stealing. I'm not sure which is worse.

 

[Zorg Machine]

Well it was hard for me to vote either of the Yes options because you think of those Somalian pirates and the fear and grief they're causing.
So I voted the straight out no

this thread has nothing to do with somalian pirates.

 

[hippo24]

Stealing is never ok if it hurts someone else.

Granted stealing from a band that has more money then they know what to do with is less of a travesty, then stealing from an independent game or film studio where the developer had to sink his 401k to finance the project.

Its just like the "Days of Old" pirates, are you a Black-Beard or a Robin Hood(yea, hes a pirate)

 

[HentMas]

I actually thing that it is OK to pirate on some cases, like for example, when you run out of installs on a EA game

or you lost your original games

or you are trying to run a school but all the books (for your kids, not for the school) are too expensive

yeah, that is how i thing pirating is ok...

but i also said no he he