Poll: Justice?

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Skeleon

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ThrobbingEgo said:
Her kids, who decided to share music under her personal screen name?
Sure. Even I know my mother's password although I don't live with my parents anymore.
I think I can even remember my father's, though I might get the capitalization wrong.
And some people don't even have passwords for their accounts/several accounts on one computer.
 

Lazzi

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mcgooch said:
Music is my favorite art form (along with gaming of course :) ). I find it sad to see it's artists constantly being cheated out of what they deserve. So yes I think she deserved what she got. I know CD's are too expensive but so are games and movies. Her punishment was harsh but you have to remember that just because something (downloading music) is done a lot it doesn't make it OK. In New Zealand High school students smoke a lot of pot "In the 1998 National Drugs Survey, 43 percent of males and 27 percent of females aged 18 to 24 years had used marijuana in the preceding 12 months. Most of those who stated that they had tried marijuana had been introduced to the drug at between 14 and 18 years of age." from, http://www.nzhis.govt.nz/moh.nsf/pagesns/130 I can assure you it has gone up since then but that is the most recent survey I could find. Dose the fact that it is common place make it OK?
No single drop of rain belives that it is to blame for the flood.

Each induvigual action is extremely minute and has little to no impact if isolated, the issue is when you have all of these action happening on a massive scale.

I belive that she should be charged with $5000 dollars (the amount the record companies are more then willing to settle for), however the intaill 1.2 million dollars sum is simply out ragous. She can really only becharge by the intial damge she did, you can convit the women for the whole damn cascade.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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NoMoreSanity said:
Oh, well did she legally get those songs before offering them? If not, I can see the problem, though if you're offering music you bought I don't see the problem.
No. Copyright infringement includes distributing someone's creative work without purchasing a license. You can't buy a CD, burn 1000 copies, and hand them out in front of HMV.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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Skeleon said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Her kids, who decided to share music under her personal screen name?
Sure. Even I know my mother's password although I don't live with my parents anymore.
I think I can even remember my father's, though I might get the capitalization wrong.
And some people don't even have passwords for their accounts/several accounts on one computer.
Look, if the kids were capable of setting up Kazaa, why wouldn't they use their own screen names? That just sounds so incredibly convoluted.
 

Skeleon

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ThrobbingEgo said:
In dubio pro reo, is all I'm saying.

The article doesn't really give enough information regarding that.
All I said was that it might have been somebody else that she wouldn't want to rat out.
 

Sanaj

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ThrobbingEgo said:
Iori35 said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Iori35 said:
Sure piracy is stealing, but individually many people fail to grasp exactly how much impact they are having.
The guilt is usually less tangible and easier to shake off when the act is done online, usually anonymously.
Some people simply can't afford to pay the set amount for entertainment.
The piracy is especially obvious in places like Brazil, where normal prices for movies,
games or music are already much too high for the most people.
I understand why it's done there, sure they don't have as much money, but they still want to get some entertainment.
It's not like there aren't people who make quality songs for free. Creative Commons licensed works, and such.
True enough, there are some quality free songs available.
Free podcasts or radio shows streamed online are also a nice bonus.
Many movies and games are usually never legally free and are much less common to find.
Yeah, but there are movies and games which are made for free. Some of them are quite good. There are alternatives to just seizing someone's creative work.
Yes, I understand this, seizing someone's creative work isn't excusable.
People just like to pretend that their own decisions or cause is justified.

In case other people reading this thread just read what's quoted above, not my longer post:
I don't like piracy at all, but I'm not prepared to send the pirates to the gallows.
 

Lazzi

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Apr 12, 2008
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ThrobbingEgo said:
Skeleon said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Her kids, who decided to share music under her personal screen name?
Sure. Even I know my mother's password although I don't live with my parents anymore.
I think I can even remember my father's, though I might get the capitalization wrong.
And some people don't even have passwords for their accounts/several accounts on one computer.
Look, if the kids were capable of setting up Kazaa, why wouldn't they use their own screen names? That just sounds so incredibly convoluted.
Hes just trying to plant seeds so doubt...

Leave him be.

Not to be offensive or anything, but you (and your very agnry looking icon) are making the tread very tense. Back off a little.

Dont worry, I agree with most ao what your saying. Just not the intesity and air of your delivery
 

ThrobbingEgo

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SenseOfTumour said:
I think he's trying to make the point that IP address does not guarantee a particular user.
What about her ISP and modem?[
Lazzi said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Skeleon said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Her kids, who decided to share music under her personal screen name?
Sure. Even I know my mother's password although I don't live with my parents anymore.
I think I can even remember my father's, though I might get the capitalization wrong.
And some people don't even have passwords for their accounts/several accounts on one computer.
Look, if the kids were capable of setting up Kazaa, why wouldn't they use their own screen names? That just sounds so incredibly convoluted.
Hes just trying to plant seeds so doubt...

Leave him be.

Not to be offensive or anything, but you (and your very agnry looking icon) are making the tread very tense. Back off a little.

Dont worry, I agree with most ao what your saying. Just not the intesity and air of your delivery
Look: If it helps, pretend I sound like Dan Ackerman.

I sneak the odd weasel word or two into my phrases, but I do my best to represent my opinions well. If you don't like it, feel free to look up YouTube videos of pygmy goats. They're adorable.
 

Lazzi

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Apr 12, 2008
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ThrobbingEgo said:
SenseOfTumour said:
I think he's trying to make the point that IP address does not guarantee a particular user.
What about her ISP and modem?
Lazzi said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Skeleon said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
Her kids, who decided to share music under her personal screen name?
Sure. Even I know my mother's password although I don't live with my parents anymore.
I think I can even remember my father's, though I might get the capitalization wrong.
And some people don't even have passwords for their accounts/several accounts on one computer.
Look, if the kids were capable of setting up Kazaa, why wouldn't they use their own screen names? That just sounds so incredibly convoluted.
Hes just trying to plant seeds so doubt...

Leave him be.

Not to be offensive or anything, but you (and your very agnry looking icon) are making the tread very tense. Back off a little.

Dont worry, I agree with most ao what your saying. Just not the intesity and air of your delivery
Look: If it helps, pretend I sound like Dan Ackerman.

I sneak the odd weasel word or two into my phrases, but I do my best to represent my opinions well. If you don't like it, feel free to look up YouTube videos of pygmy goats. They're adorable.
That Icon is still making me feel uncomfortable...
 

SenseOfTumour

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Jul 11, 2008
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I'm just stating, in today's culture of being guilty depending a lot on how good your lawyer is and not whether you actually did it, that claiming there's holes in the case where, for instance, someone could have parked outside with her laptop and used her wifi, for example, or that her kids or other visitors may have been using her internet without her knowledge.

Of course, along with that culture has come the culture of not admitting it when you're nailed, which has made it worse for her.

Again, if you're gonna fine a working mom of four, it doesn't really matter if the award is $5000 or $37 gazillion, you're only gonna get maybe $50-100 per month.
 

Bendon

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Apr 1, 2009
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They're using her to scare people. The music industry is a joke in so many ways.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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SenseOfTumour said:
I'm just stating, in today's culture of being guilty depending a lot on how good your lawyer is and not whether you actually did it, that claiming there's holes in the case where, for instance, someone could have parked outside with her laptop and used her wifi, for example, or that her kids or other visitors may have been using her internet without her knowledge.
With her known alias and her computer's IP address. Come on, is this reasonable doubt or loose change?
 

Arkzism

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Jan 24, 2008
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no it's not justice... its just a little piracy... to be honest most of those record companies have too much money... and honestly... sometimes i dont want to buy the album i just want the song.... and before you itunes me... i dont use it.... and for amazon... i dont like buying things online.... but seriously as for the downloading i think some people are over reacting.. i download lots of movies... but they dont stay for that long i watch it if i like it i tend to actually buy the dvd of it
 

magnuslion

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Jun 16, 2009
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ThrobbingEgo said:
NoMoreSanity said:
The fuck? For only 24 songs, they charged her
$1.92 million dollars! That's it, where' my gun, going to the Pro-Copyright places.
The recording companies accused Thomas-Rasset of offering 1,700 songs on Kazaa as of February 2005, before the company became a legal music subscription service following a settlement with entertainment companies. For simplicity's sake the music industry tried to prove only 24 infringements.
even at 1,700, times .99, even 20 or 30 times still doesnt come out to 1.92 million dollars. and assigning a monetary value to "emotional damage" is bullshit.
 

New Troll

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Mar 26, 2009
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Iori35 said:
However, I don't equate people who commit piracy to completely over the top cartoon villains.
New Troll in exactly want way does piracy directly involve the welfare of her children?
I mean this kind of case isn't common, the vast majority of pirates are never caught or at least are not taken to court.
She is losing money that could go towards her children's welfare. She could lose everything, which in turn could take her children away from her for not being able to financialy support them anymore. All stuff she should have thought about before commiting the crime.

I find the trend of blaming the parents for everything that happens or might happen to their children to be biased and it sometimes gets twisted/spun in a manner that's simply unfair.
Not everything a child does is thier parent's fault, but everything a parent does does impact thier child's life. Parents with moral disregards tend to influence thier children's own moralities. Sometimes for the good, but more often for the bad.

You're oversimplifying the problems and the relationships between actions and penalties.
You want over-simplification? If you're not willing to pay the fine, don't do the crime. How's that? If I speed, I should be ready to get pulled over and can't complain when it happens. If I make a copy of a movie I own to give to a friend, I should not be upset when the authorities show up at my doorstep with a $150,000 fine since it says right there before the movie it could happen. If I was giving someone else's property away without thier consent, I should be ready if the law catches me.

The amount of the fine is ridiculous, unfair and quite frankly cruel.
It being set at $80k per song, wow those must have been some amazing songs there...hmm?
I'm not saying $80k is a lot, but it also is very little considering everything to consider. She could have easily taken away more than $1.92 million from the music industry with the amount of thier product she was giving away. Even at only getting fined for 24 of the songs, I've been to several sites that offer product in this way and they will sometimes get into the hundred thousand downloads at one time. And this is only at that particular minute! Imagine, $1 a download from all those people. Even if only a quarter of them actualy pay and the rest decide it's not worth the money over-all, that's still a ton of money. Sure she got fined a lot of money, but I imagine she took away even more from the Industry so I don't feel it's too harsh.

And I do hope the best for her and especially her children. I hope she wisens up and pays off the Music Industry for whatever they're offering her and learns her lesson. If not for her sake, for her children. I don't know if she's a bad person or not, but even if she is, it's never to late to turn your life around.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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magnuslion said:
ThrobbingEgo said:
NoMoreSanity said:
The fuck? For only 24 songs, they charged her
$1.92 million dollars! That's it, where' my gun, going to the Pro-Copyright places.
The recording companies accused Thomas-Rasset of offering 1,700 songs on Kazaa as of February 2005, before the company became a legal music subscription service following a settlement with entertainment companies. For simplicity's sake the music industry tried to prove only 24 infringements.
even at 1,700, times .99, even 20 or 30 times still doesnt come out to 1.92 million dollars. and assigning a monetary value to "emotional damage" is bullshit.
I was kidding when I mentioned emotional damage. Seriously, you think it'd be involved in an Intellectual Property suit? Anyway, if you're good with math, she'd be paying a little more than a thousand dollars per song. I'm not arguing that she should, or could, pay that much. I just corrected you when you said it was only 24 songs, because 1700 is slightly bigger than 24.
 

Erzengel

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May 13, 2009
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magicmonkeybars said:
did the jury decide the punishment ? isn't that the judges job ?
Juries state guilt or innocence and recommend sentencing. The judge makes the final decision on sentencing, but is supposed to take the Jury's recommendations into consideration.