Poll: Kill La Kill; a story of sexual empowerment?

AsurasEyes

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I know I'm late to the discussion of this show, but I have a personal rule that I don't watch a show until it's finished its airtime so I can make sure it doesn't vanish up its own butthole halfway through and walk away from the experience with a bad taste in my mouth. Especially after I broke my own rule and checked out Attack On Titan and had to drop it after Episode 6 or so for the sake of my own sanity.

Anyway.

I recently started to watch Kill La Kill, having heard on /a/ that the series has finally concluded its run and remained good all the way through.

I very much enjoyed the show, and would probably rate it as the best new anime to come out in recent memory. It keeps the pace up so we never have to dwell on the (thankfully rare) weaker aspects of the storyline or action scenes. The character designs are all great, and just about every character has a sympathetic backstory and a couple of good jokes. The fanservice is prevalent, but it appeals to both the male and the female demographic, so I didn't think much of it.

Then it hit me. The fanservice was actually part of the show's metaphor. After browsing a few more threads on /a/, I found that no one else had come to this conclusion.

Kill La Kill is a story about a girl's womanhood, her sexual maturity, pride in her appearance and body, and the power that sexuality holds over us.

For those not in the know, Kill La Kill is a fighting anime about a young girl named Ryuko who transfers to a new academy ruled over by the tyrannical Student Council President Satsuki Kiryuin, who seeks to subjugate the world with her legion of students, armed with the power-boosting Goku Uniforms. When Ryuko does battle with these students, her uniform becomes an incredibly skimpy costume that make what most strippers wear appear frumpy by comparison. This, of course, is much to her chagrin, as Ryuko repeatedly mentions that she hates to be undressed in front of other people.

Which is the brilliance of the show's metaphor. Satsuki constantly goes on about her purity, her discipline, and the personal power she holds over other people, and just about every member of her entourage is quick to remind each other of Lady Satsuki's beauty and strength. And just to make it better, every member of Satsuki's entourage is attractive to at least one niche group in the anime fandom. Gamagori, of the Disciplinary Council, is a massive, long-blonde-hair-sporting beefcake who uses masochism and discipline as a weapon. Inumuta of the Information Division is a tall, thin, glasses-sporting techie who wears bishonen like a neckbeard wears a trenchcoat. Jakuzure, a pink-haired sprite who's known Satsuki since her childhood and is who risks life and limb to protect her best friend. And last but not least, Sanageyama, a strong and utterly honorable young man, one born too late to be a samurai. Every last one of these characters is a sexualized niche within the community, and since only the most attractive characters are the credible threats within the show, I started to wonder if there was something else at play besides just fanservice.

Ryuko, in order to fully realize her strength while wearing her uniform, has to accept her own body and "become naked, one and the same" with her incredibly sexualized outfit; which I realized was a metaphor for her coming to terms with her own body.

As time went on, Ryuko seemed to become more and more comfortable wearing such a skimpy outfit, and more often than not, other characters would bring up the attractiveness of their peers after a major defeat or in the middle of battle. She even came to enjoy the way that her friend's father, brother, and dog were drawn to her perfectly-proportioned, supple body.

I would go into detail about the rest of the show, the resistance group who call themselves Nudist Beach composed once again of handsome bishonen men who have a vendetta against fighting garments, but for now, I'm just going to ask: do you think that my theory is sound, or am I just reading too much into things?
 

Elfgore

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I think you may be delving a little to deep. I was always under the impression that Kill La Kill is meant to kinda open the eyes of modern anime about fan-service. Of course through parody. When we have shows like To Love-Ru and some others that escape my mind at this late hour that lack zero story, zero characterization, and have more fan-service than even I can take. Which is a lot. I think Kill La Kill is trying to say one of two things about fan-service, or maybe even both.

First, use it for laughs. Mako is constantly groping her massive chest or standing in awkward poses were they stick out like a sore thumb. These moments are funny. They make me laugh. Other shows like Noucome and Highschool DxD, use fan-service as humor. Granted, some stuff is borderline creepy, while others can make you laugh.

Second, fan-service is also fine as long as it makes sense. Make it part of the plot. I'm pretty sure a manga recently only got an anime adaption because of Kill La Kill's success. Kenzen Robo Diamadler has a protagonist who gets stronger when he gropes women. Some could still call it creepy, but hey opinions and all that. But my point stands, it is part of the plot... both in boob and story sense.[footnote]If you don't get this the first time you read it, you won't get it[/footnote]

I respect Kill La Kill for what it does. Some shows need a slap to the face. Fan-service doesn't bother me, but I can see how it turns away others. It baffles me that shows like Sekeirei, Freezing, and a few other shows cling to it so desperately. They have great stories, great action scenes, and interesting characters. But when people see that the first thing slashed in a fight is a woman's top, so she can spend the rest of the fight with her giant knockers prancing about. People are going to be turned off.
 

thejboy88

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I'm one of those people who think that it's not really possible to read "too deeply" into something. If you see something worth discussing in fiction or anything else, and you enjoy doing so, then I say go for it. A great number of interesting works have emerged from looking beneath the surface of stuff like this, and what you've written here is, at the very least, a pretty engaging thing for me to read, with many good points that I find myself agreeing with.

So no, I don't think you're reading too deeply into this, and in fact I applaud you for wanting to find something intellectual to discuss from a show that so many people have written off as "absurd nonsense".
 

Colour Scientist

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I'm not posting to be a buzzkill, I just really wanted to post that comic, I think it sums up exactly how I feel about this kind of stuff. :D

I managed to get through a few episodes of KLK but anime just doesn't really hook me and I couldn't get passed the fan-service. I mean, I've had it explained to me as metaphor, parody and a love-letter to anime or some such but to me it was just a bit...bleugh. It's not that I hated the show or anything, it just prompted a lot of eye-rolling.


I've said this before but I think most anime is just a bit lost on me because I can't look past the fan-service or can't take it seriously because I associate it with all the creepy Internet stuff.

friend's father, brother, and dog were drawn to her perfectly-proportioned, supple body.
Also, this sentence made me cringe.
 

Scarim Coral

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Thank god I had bookmarked this since the last Kill La Kill thread made on here-

http://armsmastersproject.tumblr.com/post/64538279324/skaboyjfk-in-the-right-order-this-time-oops

I can kinda see where you getting it from but in general I just see it as a metaphor for puberty.
 

The Ubermensch

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>I recently started to watch Kill La Kill, having heard on /a/ that the series has finally concluded its run and remained good all the way through.

Gosh, I think you go to a different 4chan than I.

I don't agree with the whole female empowerment thing, mainly because you can replace Ryuko with a generic Shonen and all you'll lose is "fanservice"... you know, if you're not into cute Shonen.

Ragyo and Satsuki aren't interchangeable, I think they'd definitely lose something intangible if they were men.

You know what... let's assume you're right for a second, and this is all a message about feminine power.

-Ragyo is the most powerful person in the world and wants to turn us into clothes food
-Satsuki is a violent dictator who rules with an iron fist (And did nothing wrong)
-Nui is just fuckking crazy
-Mako should be euthanised
-Ryuko does nothing but lose her way

If Trigger has embedded a message about female empowerment here, it's not a positive one.

Still



Satsuki has the spirit to pierce the heavens with her drill.
Satsuki is love
Satsuki is life
Thankyou based Satsuki for never losing your way.
 

deserteagleeye

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Let me preface this by saying I strongly dislike this anime and its fanbase.

What you're saying isn't any big revelation really. Anybody who has seen a couple animes can tell right away what KLK is all about. We all know it's poking fun at anime culture but beyond that quirk and like one good character(Kiryuin Satsuki), there really isn't anything worth the praise this show gets. Every other character is god-awful and suffers even more by their involvement with the plot. I actually liked Gamagori until he started associating himself with Mako (the Jar Jar Binks of anime).

It's like the show is just so full of itself for pointing out cliches in anime and other elements that are a degradation to its culture that it feels like it can skimp out on an actually compelling narrative for its own anime. Every time they try to point out something or just try to be wacky out of nowhere, because apparently they have some sort of quota to fill, I'm either rolling my eyes saying "Yeah, I get it..." or just face-palming and cringing over them ruining another one of their few good moments with stupid bullcrap.

I know some people like it for the action, and yeah if you turn your brain off you can get into it but I just have so little investment in it because I hate everyone and their stupid shoehorned clothing "philosophy".

The show is just a figurative hyped-up bottle of sugar water that everyone is buying expecting some sort of quality anime elixir. It's not deep at all.

[sub]I apologize for using another of someone's KLK thread as an excuse to vent.[/sub]
 

Zhukov

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I figured it was just doing the fanservice thing because that's what anime does and Kill la Kill was basically An Anime: Exaggerated Edition.

I still actually enjoyed it though.

However, I object to those outfits on purely aesthetic grounds. They look hideous and over-designed. They looked cool in their 'standard' state.
 

Drummodino

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Scarim Coral said:
Thank god I had bookmarked this since the last Kill La Kill thread made on here-

http://armsmastersproject.tumblr.com/post/64538279324/skaboyjfk-in-the-right-order-this-time-oops

I can kinda see where you getting it from but in gneral I just see it as a metaphor for puberty.
Bookmarking that myself, it explains it far better than I ever could.

OT: Yes, Kill la Kill is about female puberty and a parody of a lot of anime tropes - fan service, overpowered school council etc. The way it does this however is not mean-spirited or mocking, it points out the silliness of it all while at the same time glorying in and celebrating it.

Is it about sexual empowerment though? I don't think I'd go that far, but I can see how you'd reach that conclusion. For me though it's more the puberty thing.

No matter how you choose to interpret it though, it's still one of my absolute favourite animes and a blast of a show. Anyone who doesn't watch it just because of the costume design is missing out in my opinion.
 

Casual Shinji

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You can also make an anime about a dude with a big floppy dick and say it's a metaphor for puberty and not being ashamed of ones gender. It's still a dude with a big floppy dick.

Far be it from me to say you can't see something deep and meaningful in this show - There's plenty of shows I find deep and meaningful that others think are shallow trash. (Can you take a guess?) But to me Kill la Kill was just hyped up nonsense under a thin, nipple exposing layer of artistic merrit.

It tries to circumvent criticisms of blatant fanservice by making the fanservice so stupidly over the top that it must mean something. It gets praised for embracing and celebrating the clichés of anime, which would be fine if it had something to contrast against. Take videogames for example... Sunset Overdrive is set up as a celebration of all the over the top and goofy things games can give us, to contrast against the overabundance of gritty realism. Anime doesn't have this, anime is nearly all fanservice and pandering now, and Kill la Kill embracing this is not a good thing.
 

Zhukov

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Casual Shinji said:
... hyped up nonsense under a thin, nipple exposing layer of artistic merrit.
You must have watched a different version to me, because in the one I saw everybody was mysteriously devoid of nipples.

Or genitals for that matter.

Except that one kid for some reason.
 

Casual Shinji

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Zhukov said:
Casual Shinji said:
... hyped up nonsense under a thin, nipple exposing layer of artistic merrit.
You must have watched a different version to me, because in the one I saw everybody was mysteriously devoid of nipples.
Just a spicier way of saying 'nudity'. 'Skin exposing' doesn't nearly have the same ring to it. And the way everything is packed in and vacuum sucked with these costumes, the genitals might just as well be in full view.
 

OldNewNewOld

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You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.

Colour Scientist said:
I managed to get through a few episodes of KLK but anime just doesn't really hook me and I couldn't get passed the fan-service.
Watch TTGL, it's like a better KLK with less fanservice and more aniki.
 

Hagi

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Never watched the show so I honestly don't know.

But I'll say this, if you're apparently the only person to have seen it like this and it requires a full page to explain then I'm going to have to go with probably not.

A metaphor that requires that much explanation and is noticed by so few really is a kind of crappy metaphor. And infinitely more likely to have been caused by random associations you've made in the anime than any intent of the writers.

The entire purpose of a metaphor is to make it easier to understand complex things, not to make them even more complicated by requiring a full page of explanation and be noticed by only so few.

So yeah, based on that I'd have to say it's either not a metaphor at all or a really, really bad metaphor.
 

chikusho

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There's a line in the show which I think undoes this theory quite a bit.
I don't remember it verbatim, but something along the lines of that the godrobes are skimpy because they need to have as little skin contact as possible to use the power without becoming slaves to fashion. What's that all about?
And if the message is about female empowerment, how come some of the main characters are
made out of fabrics?

Casual Shinji said:
You can also make an anime about a dude with a big floppy dick and say it's a metaphor for puberty and not being ashamed of ones gender. It's still a dude with a big floppy dick.
You should take a look at FLCL. That's a show about a dude with a big floppy dick coming out of his forehead, which then turns into a robot.
 

Korenith

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A lot of people here are talking about artistic intent but personally I'm one of those people who thinks once a piece of art is out in the world people are free to interpret it the way they like so long as they can back it up and I reckon OP backed their theory fairly well.

Personally I think the overt sexualisation is above all else their for comic effect but both the puberty and being comfortable with your own body is definitely a central theme. Are we perhaps giving Kill la Kill too much credit for including a message? Probably. It certainly doesn't rank up their with the greats of fiction but seeing an anime with a bit more going on beneath the surface without feeling the need to dress it up as deep and meaningful is refreshing so I get why people want to talk about it and add their own theories.
 

Vegosiux

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Things we like, we want them to be deep and profound. For example, with all the GoT craze, I simply can't see that as anything more than "a bunch of dickheads being dickheads to each other. oh and there's tits and incest". I'm not a fan, I only see it superficially and don't bother to look deeper,[footnote]Which makes me a horrible, horrible heathen[/footnote] while fans of the series go on and on about how deep and intricate the setting is. The depth I don't see, or don't bother to see because it's not caught my attention enough at a cursory glance.

Kill la Kill, well, I liked the anime, so I might have been trying to find some meaning in it, but...well best I can do without being pretentious is that it relays how sometimes things aren't the way they look, and sometimes, you need the comedy relief to whip you back up into shape (or distract your enemy).

Still it's an anime that pretty much takes a piss out of everything, and it does so bluntly and blatantly, and I suppose that's what ultimately made me like it - it just doesn't give a fuck. It doesn't try to be deep and meaningful to legitimize itself.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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BiH-Kira said:
You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.
I was at a convention in Pittsburgh called Tekkosocon and there was an anthropology professor that talked about Kill la Kill and its relation to State Shinto and the WWII experience

Study of Anime: Kill la Kill, State Shinto, and the Reinvention of Divine Imagery [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/04/inspirations-kill-la-kill-and.html]

The professor, Charles Dunbar of the University of New York, said that the show was a subvertion of anime and that it had elements such as various gods, oni, and basic Meiji instiutions.

If a professor can find this type of symbolism with a show, i don't think you are overthinking things.

As for the whole topic itself: I will say that the show itself does try to play with expectations since the main villain wants to homogenize everyone symbolized by the wearing of clothes while the freedom fighters are resisting by not wearing clothes at all. I will admit that I can see why some people could hate the fanbase: some fans are taking it way too far in over justification (my view, it uses fanservice in a way that works within the context of the world and I can shallow the fanservice because of it. I will admit that it may not be saying anything of puberty, maturity and the like but it does turn the image of fanservice in the context of anime a bit on its head.

If anything else, it proves that fanservice can be more than just there for titlation but be worked into the plot

Edit:
Casual Shinji said:
You can also make an anime about a dude with a big floppy dick and say it's a metaphor for puberty and not being ashamed of ones gender. It's still a dude with a big floppy dick.

Far be it from me to say you can't see something deep and meaningful in this show - There's plenty of shows I find deep and meaningful that others think are shallow trash. (Can you take a guess?) But to me Kill la Kill was just hyped up nonsense under a thin, nipple exposing layer of artistic merrit.

It tries to circumvent criticisms of blatant fanservice by making the fanservice so stupidly over the top that it must mean something. It gets praised for embracing and celebrating the clichés of anime, which would be fine if it had something to contrast against. Take videogames for example... Sunset Overdrive is set up as a celebration of all the over the top and goofy things games can give us, to contrast against the overabundance of gritty realism. Anime doesn't have this, anime is nearly all fanservice and pandering now, and Kill la Kill embracing this is not a good thing.
I would say that the show is still needed since it actually is a case study of how to incorporate fanserivce into the plot of a show. It doesn't completely work but it mostly succeeds in my mind and the show is still a fun ride to have.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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deserteagleeye said:
Let me preface this by saying I strongly dislike this anime and its fanbase.

What you're saying isn't any big revelation really. Anybody who has seen a couple animes can tell right away what KLK is all about. We all know it's poking fun at anime culture but beyond that quirk and like one good character(Kiryuin Satsuki), there really isn't anything worth the praise this show gets. Every other character is god-awful and suffers even more by their involvement with the plot. I actually liked Gamagori until he started associating himself with Mako (the Jar Jar Binks of anime).

It's like the show is just so full of itself for pointing out cliches in anime and other elements that are a degradation to its culture that it feels like it can skimp out on an actually compelling narrative for its own anime. Every time they try to point out something or just try to be wacky out of nowhere, because apparently they have some sort of quota to fill, I'm either rolling my eyes saying "Yeah, I get it..." or just face-palming and cringing over them ruining another one of their few good moments with stupid bullcrap.

I know some people like it for the action, and yeah if you turn your brain off you can get into it but I just have so little investment in it because I hate everyone and their stupid shoehorned clothing "philosophy".

The show is just a figurative hyped-up bottle of sugar water that everyone is buying expecting some sort of quality anime elixir. It's not deep at all.

[sub]I apologize for using another of someone's KLK thread as an excuse to vent.[/sub]
Again, I point to my post and the fact that Kill la kill supposedly ripped into State Shinto and the Meiji era policies. I can see how the professor got it but I can also understand why it would be hard to come to his conclusions

As for the show itself, To me it had a nice pace with both funny and serious moments balancing each other out. Mako is surprisingly fun and good at lightening the mood when needed (Gamagorri's involvement with her did not change his convictions towards Satsuki so I see no issue with the invovlment. I actually find Ragyo to be compelling as a villain: Charismatic, crazy, driven and sadistic played up well by Romi Park's voice.

As for the philosophy around clothing itself: I've summed it up as freedom vs subjugation (all the more prevalent since the reading of Fashion and Fascism have very similar spellings as summed up here [http://art-eater.com/2013/11/kill-la-kill-the-fashion-of-fascism/]. I can however understand that people can see it as getting in the way but I see it as the main point of the show. The two thematic points of the show are:A, to go crazy with anime culture and B, to criticize State Shinto and the Meiji era.

If you disagree, I would like to hear why you don't agree because I do like talking about anime on these terms
 

The Wykydtron

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I see what you're going for but I just simply found both Ryuko and Satsuki to be the strongest female characters... like ever. Satsuki alone could carry the entire anime with pure style and personality. I don't really agree with the whole puberty thingie, they're just strong as characters without the deeper meaning even being required. SATSUKI YO'

As with TTGL, they took the piss out of an anime genre, this time magical girls and fanservice, ripped the piss out of it then wholeheartedly celebrated it.

I will give you Mako is very hit and miss. I think most people just got used to her instead of ending up liking her

The story managed to make the fanservice make sense within context, instead of just y'know giving a character stupid clothing for the sake of it and said character acts like it's totally normal and that's enough for me to look past it easily. In fact the fanservice is core in the plot, the plot would make zero sense if the fanservice were removed. Context is everything. In anime moreso than anything else because anime has the most weird stuff in it ever. Weird is good by the way, weird is near synonymous with interesting since it's away from the norm. 'S why I like anime so much.

Also the male fanservice is very well represented in KLK so there's something for everyone. So that's nice.



Yo' if I was a girl...