Annoying. Cover systems are completely useless and redundant in first-person games. The only reason why it "works" in Killzone 2 is because the default movement speed is so damn slow that you can't quickly get behind cover any other way. It's a total shoehorn and easily remedied by giving the player universal peek/lean controls instead of this context-sensitive garbage. Cover systems can work - kind of - in third-person games, but no matter how good the implementation, to me it's always been making a "feature" out of an implicit gameplay element. First-person games always involve constant development and application of fast tactics and flanking maneuvers, and having the player latch onto every surface just slows it down unnecessarily.
Really? I just turned off my PS3 about 30 minutes ago after playing through nearly half the campaign on veteran and I've never once accidentally attached myself to the wrong piece of cover. The cover system always works and it is absolutely essential on Veteran. I don't get what people are having issues with, it works fine for me every time.
EDIT: I should mention that I've already beaten the campaign on normal, I was just playing Veteran to see what changes from Trooper to Veteran.
I wouldn't say essential, I found that it's easier to go without for the most part, there's a few time when using cover is a better idea. But my most used (and with the highest success rate) tactic is to rush the enemy, firing from the hip. Got me pretty far through Veteran so far.
I do like it though, it's pretty realistic. RS and Gears have cover systems that make the games too easy.
Clunky and inconvenient. It's the only way to quickly move in and out from cover, but unfortunately, you have to hold the L2 button in, and the PS3's 'triggers' suck and are not good for holding onto. Next, if you can see out, you can be shot, but moving away from the edge fixes this. Unfortunately, you can't duck down when hiding under the 'crouch' cover. Also unfortunate, you can't crouch when you're behind 'full height' cover. Next comes the fact pressing the reload button forces you to stand and reload when in cover, but when out of cover you're free to run around like crazy.
Also, when you pop up from a crouching-cover, your accuracy is that as if you're crouching, even though your character is standing to shoot over the cover.
Oh, and I can't blind fire. Even though everyone else can. Why not?
The only gripe I have with it is that you can't blindfire. The controls worked fine for me and while reloading while in cover is tricky at first, it became second nature after a while. You just have to let go of L1 and stop aiming, then reload.
Not while popped out. Go back into, cover, press box, push stick deeper into cover. Nothing happens.
I did hate that you don't automatically start to reload if you're zoomed in an out of bullets. Found it sorta odd, seeing as how reloading is automatic in every other shooter there is.
Also, trophy for 'manual reloads'? Why? I just, ugh.
theSovietConnection said:
I find it works. It hasn't failed me yet in a situation where it shouldn't have.
I never had a problem with that. I just make sure I am safe behind cover before reloading or I detach myself from cover while I reload, it depends on the situation. As for the trophy for manual reloading, it didn't bother me. Actually, I rather liked the easy trophies in Killzone 2.
But there is no reason for you to be standing still just because you're in cover. Games that are getting billion point reviews hurled at it should not have such a stupid little problem.
The trophies were very easy. The only kill X in under Y time I didn't get was the ATAC, by a few seconds. I beat the first Heavy in 40 seconds, the Lighting dude in under a minute, and the final dude in like eight minutes, only because you can't kill him that fast.
I just wanted to know why they think manually reloading is such a big deal since there is no added animation or 'round in the chamber' to be punished or rewarded with.
The longer you fire the wider the area shots can land. The cross hairs get wider over time to indicate this.
It's a pretty standard gaming mechanic for simulating recoil....
You seem not to like this game because you cannot just point / click / kill like other FPS like counter strike.
They've just tried to get some realism into the game, if this is not for you then thats your taste.
If you can finish this game on the harder settings without using cover then you are either ducking around corners constantly or the aiming system is nowhere near as bad as you claim.
Realism? In this game? Don't make me laugh. You're a member of a multi-ethnic space marine group going after the leader of the english space nazis, who have electricity guns and walls made of electricity and electric AA guns. You're part of a military who has a marine Colonel commanding air operations which should be left to a member of the Space Navy's Planetside Airforce, and the closest thing they have to a dropship is an open-air sled.
Yeah, that's totally realistic.
The problem is that while bullet 1 is extremely accurate, the rest of the magazine seems to be repelled but bullet #1 and will do anything they can to not go towards, him, requiring you to be very good at firing one bullet or get very close to your enemy.
Oh, and the cover system isn't always that good. Look at the part in the wastes after you activate the tower, and run back to your squad. Fighting back up that hill was a pain in the ass since there was to take cover in the elevated area to the sides.
Also, why were the ISA weapons so bloody weak? The assault rifle was the only thing accurate other than the 'rifle' rifle and the sniper rifle, but it was far weaker than either of them. The pistol required three or four shots to kill someone leaving you extremely exposed when you had to use a missile launcher (speaking of which, why the hell does everyone yell 'RPG' when it's called a *missile* launcher?). The shotgun was okay, provided you didn't mind being useless at anything close to pointblank range.
Hey if I can make it through 80% of the game with the knife alone there's a problem. The A.I. is overly scripted half the time they won't shoot you whilst there running to their destination even you shoot them.
A good example is when a train car full of baddies shows up and they all get out single file you can pick them off very easily. Hell there's actually a couple seconds between guys so you can reload if you want to.
Help a fellow Escapist. What exactly is a cover system? And how is it different from simply pressing the crouch button next to a low wall that can't be penetrated by bullets?
I just wanted to know why they think manually reloading is such a big deal since there is no added animation or 'round in the chamber' to be punished or rewarded with.
I found the aiming floaty and the weapon recoil over done. Bullets should go where the gun is pointed but, and this is important, the gun should move due to recoil. Bullets should not come flying out of the gun at bizarre angles like you're unloading a can of silly string.
The cover system wasn't too great, to hit enemies at certain angles you had to detatch from cover then reatatch instead of Sev shifting his weight automatically. There were far too many objects you couldn't take cover behind and far too many that didn't offer enough cover to stop the absurdly accurate heavy machine gun from blowing the very tip of your skull off. The weapons were derivative and boring, oh a gun that nails people to walls? How fantastic. Oh and the sixaxis bullshit was just unwieldy and pointless. And the story is atrocious, like Gears but it takes itself even more seriously, it's not quite as bad as the first game (which has the worst cutscene ever seen in a game) but it's certainly up there.
I found the aiming floaty and the weapon recoil over done. Bullets should go where the gun is pointed but, and this is important, the gun should move due to recoil. Bullets should not come flying out of the gun at bizarre angles like you're unloading a can of silly string.
The cover system wasn't too great, to hit enemies at certain angles you had to detatch from cover then reatatch instead of Sev shifting his weight automatically. There were far too many objects you couldn't take cover behind and far too many that didn't offer enough cover to stop the absurdly accurate heavy machine gun from blowing the very tip of your skull off. The weapons were derivative and boring, oh a gun that nails people to walls? How fantastic. Oh and the sixaxis bullshit was just unwieldy and pointless. And the story is atrocious, like Gears but it takes itself even more seriously, it's not quite as bad as the first game (which has the worst cutscene ever seen in a game) but it's certainly up there.
We have much of the same gripes, Doctor. I've always found that the concept of recoil in games doesn't work as well as it should, spraying the area instead of following the normal "Up and to the right" that really happens (or left, if the shooter is holding their weapon to their left shoulder). I was incredibly annoyed by the lack of weapons appearing in various maps. The M1-Garand-esque rifle was wonderful, but only appears in a few levels, and you have to deal with the terrible pistol most of the game.
I've yet to play a game where the Sixaxis function wasn't put in there solely for the point of there being sixaxi functionality.
I found the "serious, emotional cutscene" at the end of the refinery level to be one of the most humorous parts of the game.
The longer you fire the wider the area shots can land. The cross hairs get wider over time to indicate this.
It's a pretty standard gaming mechanic for simulating recoil....
You seem not to like this game because you cannot just point / click / kill like other FPS like counter strike.
They've just tried to get some realism into the game, if this is not for you then thats your taste.
If you can finish this game on the harder settings without using cover then you are either ducking around corners constantly or the aiming system is nowhere near as bad as you claim.
Realism? In this game? Don't make me laugh. You're a member of a multi-ethnic space marine group going after the leader of the english space nazis, who have electricity guns and walls made of electricity and electric AA guns. You're part of a military who has a marine Colonel commanding air operations which should be left to a member of the Space Navy's Planetside Airforce, and the closest thing they have to a dropship is an open-air sled.
Well I was referring to the controls not the story. Maybe I should have made that clearer for you.
If you're going to pick apart games story lines for realism you're going to be at it a long time.
But seeing as you raised the point...
Multi ethnic?
Makes a change from the usual copy and paste pale skinned, blue eyed jar heads you get in these games.
Whats the problem with that?
English space nazis?
Well if you think that no other isolationist culture can produce a resurgence of fascism then. Happens here on earth why not on another colony? I've not played KZ1 so do not know the back story enough to say why the helghast turned fascist but it's not unrealistic to suppose it could happen. Any "freedom loving" troops versus evil fascists has been a plot point in both games, books and movies since year dot.
Plus us English have been playing bad guys in movies for years why should games be any different?
Electric arc weapons?
This is actually one of the most realistic parts for a futuristic game. Aside from the power source needed (hence the finding of the mineral) there's nothing used that couldn't be made today. Look at some of the stuff Tesla was playing around with. Much more realistic then the usual laser weapons you get in these kind of games.
A marine Colonel commanding air operations?
Come on... thats scraping the barrel here. Maybe in the year xxxx the Marines and Airforce join departments to save on paper clips or something.
Open top drop ship?
Aside from creating a nice intro what's wrong with that? It's basically taken from the Higgins Boat of the D-Day landings. And open top craft where troops can escape from all sides makes a lot more sense than a tin-can and a choke point door. And if you're thinking amour plating. Well you either go all the way with amour 4 to 5 inches thick or forget it. And thats assuming that weapons haven't improved in power since today. You could always have a force shield but that wouldn't be too realistic would it?
The problem is that while bullet 1 is extremely accurate, the rest of the magazine seems to be repelled but bullet #1 and will do anything they can to not go towards, him, requiring you to be very good at firing one bullet or get very close to your enemy.
Fire in short controlled bursts. Again this is trying towards realism with the recoil. Fire a burst of 3. Those 3 will be pretty much where you wanted them to be.
Oh, and the cover system isn't always that good. Look at the part in the wastes after you activate the tower, and run back to your squad. Fighting back up that hill was a pain in the ass since there was to take cover in the elevated area to the sides.
Not sure what you're trying to say here... you found it hard because of the enemy in the elevated cover? Why didn't you go down the sides and hit them from behind? If you walked up the middle of the map you are ironically enough walking through the "Killzone"
Also, why were the ISA weapons so bloody weak? The assault rifle was the only thing accurate other than the 'rifle' rifle and the sniper rifle, but it was far weaker than either of them. The pistol required three or four shots to kill someone leaving you extremely exposed when you had to use a missile launcher (speaking of which, why the hell does everyone yell 'RPG' when it's called a *missile* launcher?). The shotgun was okay, provided you didn't mind being useless at anything close to pointblank range.
Weapons seemed ok to me but thats a personal opinion. Shotguns should be weak at anything other that close range. I liked the snipers aiming system where how steady the pad was effected the aim. Makes a change from the "press x to hold breath" etc.
RPG is easier to shout than Missile launcher I suppose. Feel free to argue semantics on the battle field if you want. Though to me a Rocket propelled grenade with explosive warhead fulfills 90% of what I consider a missile to be.
I am not a fanboy of this game, i'll be bored with it within the month. I am not a fanboy of the ps3 ( I have all 3)
It's just a nice game which I can tell a lot of works gone into . End of story.
The longer you fire the wider the area shots can land. The cross hairs get wider over time to indicate this.
It's a pretty standard gaming mechanic for simulating recoil....
You seem not to like this game because you cannot just point / click / kill like other FPS like counter strike.
They've just tried to get some realism into the game, if this is not for you then thats your taste.
If you can finish this game on the harder settings without using cover then you are either ducking around corners constantly or the aiming system is nowhere near as bad as you claim.
Realism? In this game? Don't make me laugh. You're a member of a multi-ethnic space marine group going after the leader of the english space nazis, who have electricity guns and walls made of electricity and electric AA guns. You're part of a military who has a marine Colonel commanding air operations which should be left to a member of the Space Navy's Planetside Airforce, and the closest thing they have to a dropship is an open-air sled.
Well I was referring to the controls not the story. Maybe I should have made that clearer for you.
If you're going to pick apart games story lines for realism you're going to be at it a long time.
But seeing as you raised the point...
Multi ethnic?
Makes a change from the usual copy and paste pale skinned, blue eyed jar heads you get in these games.
Whats the problem with that?
English space nazis?
Well if you think that no other isolationist culture can produce a resurgence of fascism then. Happens here on earth why not on another colony? I've not played KZ1 so do not know the back story enough to say why the helghast turned fascist but it's not unrealistic to suppose it could happen. Any "freedom loving" troops versus evil fascists has been a plot point in both games, books and movies since year dot.
Plus us English have been playing bad guys in movies for years why should games be any different?
Electric arc weapons?
This is actually one of the most realistic parts for a futuristic game. Aside from the power source needed (hence the finding of the mineral) there's nothing used that couldn't be made today. Look at some of the stuff Tesla was playing around with. Much more realistic then the usual laser weapons you get in these kind of games.
A marine Colonel commanding air operations?
Come on... thats scraping the barrel here. Maybe in the year xxxx the Marines and Airforce join departments to save on paper clips or something.
Open top drop ship?
Aside from creating a nice intro what's wrong with that? It's basically taken from the Higgins Boat of the D-Day landings. And open top craft where troops can escape from all sides makes a lot more sense than a tin-can and a choke point door. And if you're thinking amour plating. Well you either go all the way with amour 4 to 5 inches thick or forget it. And thats assuming that weapons haven't improved in power since today. You could always have a force shield but that wouldn't be too realistic would it?
The problem is that while bullet 1 is extremely accurate, the rest of the magazine seems to be repelled but bullet #1 and will do anything they can to not go towards, him, requiring you to be very good at firing one bullet or get very close to your enemy.
Fire in short controlled bursts. Again this is trying towards realism with the recoil. Fire a burst of 3. Those 3 will be pretty much where you wanted them to be.
Oh, and the cover system isn't always that good. Look at the part in the wastes after you activate the tower, and run back to your squad. Fighting back up that hill was a pain in the ass since there was to take cover in the elevated area to the sides.
Not sure what you're trying to say here... you found it hard because of the enemy in the elevated cover? Why didn't you go down the sides and hit them from behind? If you walked up the middle of the map you are ironically enough walking through the "Killzone"
Also, why were the ISA weapons so bloody weak? The assault rifle was the only thing accurate other than the 'rifle' rifle and the sniper rifle, but it was far weaker than either of them. The pistol required three or four shots to kill someone leaving you extremely exposed when you had to use a missile launcher (speaking of which, why the hell does everyone yell 'RPG' when it's called a *missile* launcher?). The shotgun was okay, provided you didn't mind being useless at anything close to pointblank range.
Weapons seemed ok to me but thats a personal opinion. Shotguns should be weak at anything other that close range. I liked the snipers aiming system where how steady the pad was effected the aim. Makes a change from the "press x to hold breath" etc.
RPG is easier to shout than Missile launcher I suppose. Feel free to argue semantics on the battle field if you want. Though to me a Rocket propelled grenade with explosive warhead fulfills 90% of what I consider a missile to be.
I am not a fanboy of this game, i'll be bored with it within the month. I am not a fanboy of the ps3 ( I have all 3)
It's just a nice game which I can tell a lot of works gone into . End of story.
Clearly, sir, you're not familiar with that which we call humor.
I thought you were talking about recoil, in regards to realism.
Seconly, most FPS featuring you, who is either white or faceless, and some squad members, who either faceless, or featuring some mixture of white, Hispanic, or African. Both Gears and KZ2 are great examples of this, though KZ lacks anybody who could be described as "African", which is odd.
I call them English Space Nazis because it's funny, and I'm not as creative as I'd like to be. Secondly, that's what they are. The 3rd Reich and it's associated imagery and concepts are burned heavily into our culture's minds and history. You want something that represents fascism, the first thing somebody will say is a comparison to the Nazis because they did it best. The easiest comparison to fascism is the Nazis, so that comparison is going to be made. Never mind that they were black, use lots of red & black imagery with some white thrown in for color, though the white is typically saved for the ISA because they're the good guys.
Actually, the army is making directed energy weapons. The current versions are ones to be mounted on planes and satellites to shoot down ICBMs. They have a working non-lethal one that is used to disperse crowds. The only electric weapons I've heard of are stunguns and tazers. Non-lethal.
Yeah, still no. He obviously wasn't very good at his job, consider how things go. Likewise I'd have complain about how ill armed the cruisers were in regards to their own defense, I'd also note their total lack of a mass driver, or something similar to the Thor Velocity cannon; Whetehr by accelerating or dropping a giant piece of metal onto the target zone, they'd have a powerful weapon that could be used from space, as I'm assuming the cruisers are also capable of interstellar flight, or atleast space flight in-system, being deployed from some kind of ship that can do interstellar flight.
You complain about me comparing the Helghast to Nazis, but not when the ISA use something that resemble something from WWII. The point is, it's an extremely dangerous means of transport. There are no safety belts, greatly limiting evasive action, and extremely vulnerable to fire. I'd expect htem to use some sort of dropship or helicopter like Halo's Pelican, or Gears of War's King Raven, (which was a cross between the Hind and the Apache helicopters) for such a tak as air lifting troops into the fight. The Helghast have a good idea of it. A well armored dropship that carries troops to and from battle. Sure, it's not as a cool as taking the express elevator to hell with the top down, but it's less likely to get you shot.
Short controlled bursts work, to an extant. Unfortunately, at mid range, they're not even that good, meaning I've either got to charge a machine gun nest or try to pick him long range, which doesn't work that well.
IN regards to that specific part; there's next to no cover in the middle, so I opted to take the path on the right, going through the structures. Unfortunately, you can't take cover on those surfaces inside the structures, and Sev isn't that agile, and the Helghast are pretty good at figuring out which piece I'll try to appear through.
While a missile can be described as thing that can be thrown or launched, in this context, a missile typically has stabilizing fins and perhaps some kind of guidance system, whereas RPG's don't. However, the biggest thing against it being a RPG, is that it's called a missile launcher. It's says so when it asks if you want to pick one up. It's a clled a missile launcher, ergo it fires missiles.
While the sixaxis could be used as a floating aim when holding a sniper rifle, the point of holding one's breath in games is because in real life, that's how it works. You can't just hold the gun really steady and not have your breathing affect it. Just more 'we must have sixaxis functionality so it doesn't seem like a waste. Like the det-packs or wheel turning. Pointless delays in game play just to so the sixaxis feels special.
It's a decent game, the only thing of which I'd like to see in other games is the AI, which is generally smarter when it's not being affected by poorly done scripting.
While a missile can be described as thing that can be thrown or launched, in this context, a missile typically has stabilizing fins and perhaps some kind of guidance system, whereas RPG's don't. However, the biggest thing against it being a RPG, is that it's called a missile launcher. It's says so when it asks if you want to pick one up. It's a clled a missile launcher, ergo it fires missiles.
Just felt I needed to correct you on that: http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/rpg-7-ammo.gif RPG's do have stabilizing fins so I don't know what you're talking about. The "missile launcher" in Killzone 2 is probably just a modified RPG launcher.
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