Poll: Lara and the Tomb raider controversy

Macgyvercas

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Feb 19, 2009
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Mr.K. said:
Of course it's sexist, female protagonist only?!
What the hell are you playing at here, you saying only women can be heroes or something??
I demand a gender option!
Dude, this is a TOMB RAIDER GAME! In every single one, you have played as the same character (discounting the 20 or so minutes you spend as Kurtis Trent in Angel of Darkness). Whether I do or do not agree with you is irrelevant, seeing as the core idea is that the main character of this series is a woman, and that was the conceptual idea right from the start back in 1996 . Having a gender option now makes little to no sense.
 

Faulty Turmoil

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Nov 25, 2009
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Macgyvercas said:
Mr.K. said:
Of course it's sexist, female protagonist only?!
What the hell are you playing at here, you saying only women can be heroes or something??
I demand a gender option!
Dude, this is a TOMB RAIDER GAME! In every single one, you have played as the same character (discounting the 20 or so minutes you spend as Kurtis Trent in Angel of Darkness). Whether I do or do not agree with you is irrelevant, seeing as the core idea is that the main character of this series is a woman, and that was the conceptual idea right from the start back in 1996 . Having a gender option now makes little to no sense.
I think he was joking... Poe's law strikes again!

OT: I'll wait till the game is out first. But from what I've seen I don't have a problem with it.
 

StriderShinryu

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Dec 8, 2009
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It really doesn't seem it to me.. but I'm also not really with the demographic that it may potentially offend so my perspective may be off.

I do think the trailer showed way too much of Lara getting beaten up and beaten on for my tastes, but that's more to do with questionable editing and scene selection. It's sort of like the trailer for Dishonoured. Yeah, I can stab dudes in first person, cool. What else does the game actually have going for it? With Tomb Raider it was: yeah, Lara's weaker and inexperienced here, I get it, can I see more of the game?
 

Richardplex

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Jun 22, 2011
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Cat Sharp said:
Moonlight Butterfly said:
They would never do it with a male character though because apparently male characters don't have to go through a traumatic experience to be tough...

What about Jenson in Deus Ex: Human Revolution? He got pretty beat up at the start of the game. Though I guess you could argue he was already strong to begin with.

I?m definitely interested in the game but as others have said it depends on the execution.
Jensen is a weird one, they completely go over his adapting to being augmented in the actual game. Breaking his mirror when he saw himself, unable to hold a glass without nearly breaking it, it's in trailers and referenced briefly but mostly left to the player. Same with the survivor Shepard in Mass Effect - he/she becomes strong because of his/her traumatic experience.

I think it's going to be fine in game - it's one legitimate way of doing an unempowerment game - but the marketing and the guys' comments were done badly.

Jynthor said:
Did we really need another thread about this? I lost count.
It's part of this second-wind gender battle currently going on on the site, give it a month or so.
 

Tony2077

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Dec 19, 2007
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at this point i look at stuff like this which group will they piss off this time.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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BloatedGuppy said:
Did I miss something? Is the new Tomb Raider game already out?

Or is the poll missing the "I like to actually play games before forming strong opinions about them" option?
You're not missing it. People just like to put the cart before the horse.
 

XMark

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Jan 25, 2010
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ravenshrike said:
Martin Toney said:
They want to portray the now innocent Lara as a young, vulnerable explorer to add some impact to the story.
I object to the characterization of vulnerable and would replace it with naive. She sets herself on fire to free herself and lands on a piece of rebar. From there she finds one of her friends crucified up on the wall by cannibals. She fashions a bow out of scavenged materials and hunts for food. Then she fights off a would-be rapist and kills him. None of that actually suggests vulnerability.
It seems like the more apt description would be that she's strong but inexperienced.

I like the overall direction the Tomb Raider game is going in. I would say it's the exact opposite of sexist actually. Sexist would be to shy away from letting Lara get beat up as badly as a male protagonist.
 

zoharknight

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Sep 10, 2008
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I dont believe its sexist really. Even the makers of the game said that the stuff we,ve seen is just the early game , when shes new and untrained and not used to a harsher world. From what i see the games about her growth into a stronger person. Judgeing the game is sexist over just the first few moments is just dumb.
 

shadyh8er

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Apr 28, 2010
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Moonlight Butterfly said:
They would never do it with a male character though because apparently male characters don't have to go through a traumatic experience to be tough...
Drake's mother committed suicide, his father left him in an orphanage, and he lived as a street rat. Not traumatic at all!

OT: It's too early to tell. People need to wait until the game actually comes out.
 

Drake666

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Sep 13, 2010
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Ok, I've selected "A little" in the poll, but I've jsut watched the trailer and their seams to be nothing sexist about it... but I didn't play the game.

Lara seams like an interesting character in an incredible situation.
 

LiquidGrape

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Sep 10, 2008
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Mcoffey said:
Susan Arendt put it best: It's not about the falls. It's about her rising from them.
Which, while perfectly legitimate a thesis, still doesn't render the reboot exempt from criticism.
Just because you can argue that Lara will rise from the ashes a "stronger" character doesn't mean it's a well-judged premise or execution thereof.
And especially if you've grown tired of popular media's insistence on having female characters suffer through horrifying trials of fire involving the threat of sexual assault for that extra spicy exploitative contrivance, all simply in order to be validated as a character, chances are you're not going to think very highly of this new direction.

I also think it's worth noting that it's seldom male protagonists will have a traumatising ordeal happen to them personally. More often than not, that baggage will be somewhat detached and familial (particularly often paternal) in nature.
Adam Jensen of Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a recent exception to the rule, but even he more or less shrugs the whole issue off within the first hour or so; utilising his newly found superhuman abilities to fight injustice and kick ass.

Their female equivalents, however, will more or less invariably see their own personal self victimised at some point, and be dramatically instructed to define themselves by their struggle to build themselves up again.
This reboot of Tomb Raider is looking depressingly like a case of this phenomenon. Hell, even Carla Valenti of the aforementioned Fahrenheit had to be the subject of an utterly pointless exercise in which her professionalism and competence was crippled by particularly gendered sequences of claustrophobia.

Naturally I cannot say anything with certainty until the game is released. But judging from what material I've seen and the impressively ignorant statements made by their producer, I see little reason to be anything but skeptical at this point.
 

someonehairy-ish

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Mar 15, 2009
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Moonlight Butterfly said:
They would never do it with a male character though because apparently male characters don't have to go through a traumatic experience to be tough...
Bullshit.

Because nothing bad ever happens to male characters in origin stories. I don't see any of them having loved ones die or abuse or training from hell.

Oh, wait...
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
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Not really no.

The thing that actually bothers me about this game is, from what I've seen, the voice over literally sounds like a game of tennis between two women. My ears just can't take that much high pitched grunting.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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Haven?t played it yet so I can?t really say but so far nothing I?ve seen strikes me as particularly sexist. I feel they will overplay it but again I have to play the game to know that. Some of the Devs comments were pretty stupid and it made it sound more like a the intent was just to torture her rather than character development but I think most of that is people reading too much into it.
Although one thing I?m I confused about... with the whole rape issue, is that just the scene in the trailer or another one? Because I didn?t think that scene was that bad. He threatens it, she kicks him, rips his ear off and they struggle with a gun. With everything else that?s not even the worse of what she would have been through.
 

TheReviewGrid

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Jun 20, 2012
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Moonlight Butterfly said:
It's sexist because they think that a male audience can't relate to a strong female character and they have to make 'protecting' her the main focus.
Your basing this off of what? Hasn't protecting the main character of a video game, also know as keeping them alive, sort of been the point of games at least since Mario. Also main protagonists get beaten up all of the frelling time. It's called overcoming and is a sign of strength rather than weakness.

Moonlight Butterfly said:
Also that Lara Croft was a great power fantasy for women and now she has been reduced to being beaten up for the benefit of the male audience.

It's hard to judge until the game comes out though.
You hit the main problem with any debate fight on the head, it hasn't been released yet. So we are trying to debate a subject with little information on what the finished product will be.

Moonlight Butterfly said:
They would never do it with a male character though because apparently male characters don't have to go through a traumatic experience to be tough...
How about Adam Jensen. In the beginning he gets his ass kicked and then augmented, a process which he was expressing moral reserve before getting his ass kicked.