Poll: Lara Croft's character.

[Ambient_Malice]

Back in 2009, after a few dozen Crystal Dynamics developers were fired, someone claiming to be Eric Lindstrom started posting on a Tomb Raider forum. And he shared his views on Lara Croft and how her creator and his collaborator, Toby Gard, saw her. These posts, taken at face value, stand in stark contrast to Rhianna Pratchett's view of the character. They've never been fully verified, but they haven't been denied by either party, either.

http://www.wikiraider.com/index.php/The_%E2%80%9CEric_Lindstr%C3%B6m%E2%80%9D_posts

It was an explict understanding that Toby and I had that Lara does have this dual nature, where her good breeding and education keep her pretty level most of the time, but when something pries the lid off, she goes mental. It's human nature, at least for some. As for being an anti-hero, it is a matter of definition and they vary. I think of an anti-hero in the terms you described, but also as someone who acts out of self-interest rather than altruistic ones. And we can all agree that Lara looks out for herself first, and the rest of us benefit from it ocassionally.

I would pitch Tomb Raider just the same as I always talk about it. A strong, determined English woman who is fearless, stubborn, and ocassionally ruthless who searches the globe to find ancient artifacts and the truth and real powers that underlie mythology as we know it, in remote, exotic, exciting, and undiscovered ruins. Something like that.

I can't really say more about Toby's vision of Lara except to say that with all the hundreds of ideas we tossed around, on the spectrum of "That's too hardcore for Lara to do..." Toby was on the far end of the spectrum. He does think of her as a well-behaved psychopath, and well, so do I.

Toby Gard gave a 2004 interview where he talked about his falling out with Core\Eidos over Lara's sexualisation. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/toby-gard-let-the-battle-begin-6171048.html

She wasn't a tits-out-for-the-lads type of character in any way. Quite the opposite, in fact. I thought that what was interesting about her was she was this unattainable, austere, dangerous sort of person.

I had problems when they started putting lower-cut clothes on her and sometimes taking her clothes off completely," says Gard. "It's really weird when you see a character of yours doing these things. You can't believe it. You think 'She can't do that!' I've spent my life drawing pictures of things and they're mine, you know?

Then we've got Rhianna Pratchett's Lara. I make no secret of the fact I strongly dislike what Pratchett has done to the character. But one thing stands out in stark contrast to not just Eric Lindstrom\Toby Gard's view, but also the way Lara behaves in Legend & Underworld.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/13/can-lara-be-sexy-and-other-questions-with-tomb-raider-s-writer.aspx

I personally don?t have an issue with female characters being sexy. However, in the past the industry has suffered from sexy merely being used as a solo personality trait. Likewise, the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized, which was off-putting for some. We definitely need more diversity in this area and to create more characters who?re sexy because they?re smart, funny, thoughtful, loyal, textured and flawed people, on top of whatever they may look like. I still think Lara?s sexy. She?s beautiful, fierce, empathetic, determined and smart, which arguably she was before. But now she's just not sexualized. I think that decision has definitely helped us reach new audiences.

Rhianna Pratchett sees Lara as empathetic. As human. Her creator and his co-writer on the TR Trilogy see her as a cold, selfish, psychopath. Those games depict her as a cold, selfish, psychopath.

How do you guys feel about the Rhianna Pratchett's version of Lara?

 

[Zhukov]

I don't recall the old games depicting her as... much of anything really. She climbed around ancient ruins and shot the local wildlife, and also the local people from time to time. Writing and dialogue were so bad back then that they struggled to establish basic motivations let alone a character with "a duel nature".

As for the new Lara... meh. She was just kinda there. I was neither impressed nor repulsed. I sort of got the impression that whoever was doing the writing was so caught up with her being "iconic" that they forgot to give her much in the way of defining traits beyond garden-variety bravery and determination. Those are cool and all, but kind of the norm when it comes to action protagonists.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

I don't recall the old games depicting her as... much of anything really. She climbed around ancient ruins and shot the local wildlife, and also the local people from time to time. Writing and dialogue were so bad back then that they struggled to establish basic motivations let alone a character with "a duel nature".

Did you play Tomb Raider Legend\Underworld? Because Tomb Raider 2\3\4\5\Angel of Darkness were made without the original creator because he left in protest.

 

[The Madman]

I prefer ye olden Lara. Sure she wasn't exactly a deep character, but she was a fun one, something the new Tomb Raider severely lacks with all its gore and violence.

Perhaps the upcoming game will fix it but that's something that was severely missing from the new Tomb Raider; That sense of fun and adventure. It is named 'TOMB RAIDER' after all, not 'GRUESOME MURDER SIMULATOR' which is basically what the new one came down to complete with the entire franchise namesake, the plundering and exploring of tombs and ancient ruins, being downgraded to little one-room side-missions in favor of more killing.

As for Lara Herself, having played the original games she never came off as psychotic. Adventurous to a fault, greedy, and overconfident perhaps but she never struck me as being a bad person. More just someone whose hunt for the next big thrill tends to end up with her getting into situations most same human beings might seek to avoid.

So yeah, an adrenaline junkie with a thing for acrobatics and ancient history.

 

[Vault101]

As for the new Lara... meh. She was just kinda there. I was neither impressed nor repulsed. I sort of got the impression that whoever was doing the writing was so caught up with her being "iconic" that they forgot to give her much in the way of defining traits beyond garden-variety bravery and determination. Those are cool and all, but kind of the norm when it comes to action protagonists.

I like what they were going for but should could have stood to be a little less reactive, I'm hoping next game she'll have a little more motivation...not that saving your friends and girfirend[footnote/]ITS CANNON UNTILL THEY SAY IT ISN'T[/footnote] isn't adequate but you know...have some attitude Lara!

[footnote/]I also really hope they don't pull a "Tootie from the Banjo Kazooie games" with Sam...if only for consistency sake[/footnote]

Perhaps the upcoming game will fix it but that's something that was severely missing from the new Tomb Raider; That sense of fun and adventure. It is named 'TOMB RAIDER' after all, not 'GRUESOME MURDER SIMULATOR' which is basically what the new one came down to complete with the entire franchise namesake, the plundering and exploring of tombs and ancient ruins, being downgraded to little one-room side-missions in favor of more killing.

I doubt it....the sequel seems to be focusing on her trauma and such...the promotion trailer [footnote/]which obviously doesn't represent the actual final product[/footnote] not only had her speaking to a psychiatrist but wearing a leather jacket/hoodie of despair

personally? I'm cool with this direction

[quote/]As for Lara Herself, having played the original games she never came off as psychotic.[/quote]
99% of videogame characters are psychotic judging by body count alone, but this is something we put up to suspension of disbelief...when trying to use it as a moral point (Uncharted2,Last of us, Tomb raider 2013) it tends to fall flat [

 

[The Madman]

personally? I'm cool with this direction

I find it kinda boring. Between books, movies, and other videogames we've got the whole 'tormented protagonist' trope pretty well covered. It's gotten tiresome.

99% of videogame characters are psychotic judging by body count alone, but this is something we put up to suspension of disbelief...when trying to use it as a moral point (Uncharted2,Last of us, Tomb raider 2013) it tends to fall flat [

Well that's just the thing, in the first game Lara Croft doesn't have a body count. There's a grand total of one human you have to fight, and it's a big deal when you're forced to fight them. It's only later on in the series and with the newest game that having a high kill count became a thing in the franchise, previously it was only exotic creatures in forgotten tombs that need fear the wrath of Lara Croft.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't recall the old games depicting her as... much of anything really. She climbed around ancient ruins and shot the local wildlife, and also the local people from time to time. Writing and dialogue were so bad back then that they struggled to establish basic motivations let alone a character with "a duel nature".

Did you play Tomb Raider Legend\Underworld? Because Tomb Raider 2\3\4\5\Angel of Darkness were made without the original creator because he left in protest.

Uhh... lemme think.

I played the original, I played TR2 aaaaand... TR4? Dunno, one of the numbered ones.

I definitely didn't play Angel of Darkness. I think I played Underworld, although I may be confusing it with Legend. I know I only played one of those two.

They all kind of blend together.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I started Tomb Raiding when the original first came out, and yup, I kinda adore this Lara. One of my - potential hyperbole incoming in 3, 2, 1... - favourite game leads of all time, and a superb post-Katniss female lead.

Classic Lara was never really a character. She was mostly just another pop-culture sociopath, like Bond; kills everything in sight, then drops a few quips.

Nu-Tomb Raider? She felt like a human being, not an icon. I also find it enjoyable ironic how Lara Croft, of all characters, became a great example of a female lead done right (e.g. not just a male character with breasts, not weak because of her gender, etc) - given that she was largely just known as gaming's first 'sex icon' since the mid/late '90's.

That Tomb Raider was also one of my favourite games of the whole last gen, too, so (barring the bizarrely predictable 'story' and a certain Will Betray When Possible character) its design and nu-Lara made something akin to a perfect game [for me].

Whilst I look forward to more nu-TR and Lara, I'm skeptical Rise Of The Dark Batman Tomb Knight Raider will add much in terms of character progression. They can't do the origin arc again, so they can't really present her as being so--- er, plucky, for want of a better word? It'll be harder to humanise her, I feel. What I don't want is another rote action lead with no vulnerabilities.

I think Rhianna Pratchett's a bit of a legend, though, and a potentially immense force for good in the industry. If she's given freedom to write the character, then hopefully she and the team can come up with another great game and another great appearance of Lara as an actual relatable, sympathetic character.

/edit

Well that's just the thing, in the first game Lara Croft doesn't have a body count. There's a grand total of one human you have to fight, and it's a big deal when you're forced to fight them. It's only later on in the series and with the newest game that having a high kill count became a thing in the franchise, previously it was only exotic creatures in forgotten tombs that need fear the wrath of Lara Croft.

Didn't see this when I posted, but you're way off the mark on that one; the bodycount started with Tomb Raider 2 - aka 'Lara kills lots of humans around the world'. When it launched, some hated that Lara was now offing mercs as opposed to a variety of endangered species. So yeah, Classic Lara had a prodigious bodycount early on.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I've never thought of Laura as a psycho. Granted, I haven't played that many games, but I did play the first one, as well as the one where she loses her mom, and then the one where she finally finds her mom. She...never seemed psycho in those. In fact, I remember she was torn up when she had to kill the that guy in the first game. She tried and tried and tried to do anything else, but he wouldn't back down, and so she did what she had to--and it made her sick. That isn't the sign of a psycho to me.

I apparently have a very different view of Lara that the original creators.


As for her new character, I'm still out. I get what they're doing, making her younger so we get to see her grow into the character we know, and I think they can do it based on the first game, but I'll reserve judgement. I liked it, but I do miss that British girl who knew what she was doing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just hated her voice acting in the '13 one. It made her sound so fucking whiney. Especially during moments of physical stress, of which the game just couldn't get enough. Those frikking grunts and yelps were like nails on a chalkboard.

Not that she had any character in the previous games. She was just a pin-up with pistols who could do backflips.

I still can't say which one I prefer, though I've never really been a fan of the series anyway.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I don't recall the old games depicting her as... much of anything really. She climbed around ancient ruins and shot the local wildlife, and also the local people from time to time. Writing and dialogue were so bad back then that they struggled to establish basic motivations let alone a character with "a duel nature".

Agreed. Classic Lara Croft existed in a time when the story was there ONLY as the excuse for gameplay. Lara needed a reason to climb and solve puzzles so that there's a reason to jump to the next level. And it was obvious that her characterization didn't matter nearly as much as her appearance. And I'm saying this as someone who loves Legend/Anniversary/Underworld (to a lesser extent because of the shitty camera).

Today it's a lot more different. Story, characterization and gameplay are interwoven. Even though a lot of people didn't like how Lara just started killing people left and right in the new Tomb Raider, the story and her character didn't take a back seat this time around. I like that. I approve of new Lara Croft very much and I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[Zhukov]

I just saw her as an innocent, pretty, made-up girl who I was supposed to feel sorry for as she cried, moaned, shivered and screamed through all the abuse, which made me dislike her. She seemed weak through almost the whole game. I never believed she could kill so many people.

Partly agreed on this point.

I personally didn't mind them having a protagonist who expresses fear, pain and vulnerability from time to time, but it didn't jive all that well with the kill-fifty-men-before-breakfast gameplay.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Not that she had any character in the previous games. She was just a pin-up with pistols who could do backflips.

I disagree strongly. Lara Croft in Legend and Underworld has a clearly defined character with a clearly defined character arc where she goes from perpetually smug to perpetually angry. I'm not saying it's world class writing, but Toby and Eric gave her clear motivations, a playable backstory, and a personality that changes slightly over the course of the two games.

Their Lara is fundamentally not a very nice person in the same way James Bond is not a very nice person. Wheras Indiana Jones is all about academia and "this belongs in a museum" and such, Lara is about herself, kinda like James Bond's, "No, for me." (Lara and James Bond both have an old friend that they thought dead. Said friend turns out to be a villain. In Underworld's unused alternate ending, Lara shoots Amanda and leaves her to die in the snow.)


She hoards artifacts for herself. She's not at all altruistic. She's not some emotionless robot, but she's a fundamentally different character to the "SAM! SAAAAAAM! SAAAAAAAAM!" *trips over log* character that Rhianna Pratchett wrote.


After the doppleganger murders Alistair, Lara wants to immediately jet off to get Mjolnir. Toby's Lara might show emotion over someone's death, but it's not she actually 'cares', per se. She's more concerned about herself and her goals.

Then there's the doppleganger.


Lara takes control of her doppleganger and then gives it free will. She then tells it to make sure Natla suffers. The doppleganger watches Natla die horribly, smiling.

It could be argued that the Doppleganger is a reflection of Lara's true self. When Lara asks what it would do if it were given free will, it says, "What would you do?" Instead of pondering the deeper implications of such a question, Lara is all, "Welp, off you go. Go murder people for me." (To paraphrase.)

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I just saw her as an innocent, pretty, made-up girl who I was supposed to feel sorry for as she cried, moaned, shivered and screamed through all the abuse, which made me dislike her. She seemed weak through almost the whole game. I never believed she could kill so many people.

Partly agreed on this point.

I personally didn't mind them having a protagonist who expresses fear, pain and vulnerability from time to time, but it didn't jive all that well with the kill-fifty-men-before-breakfast gameplay.

That massive segregation between the gameplay and the story is probably Tomb Raider 2013's biggest flaw: and I think it would have been easily remedied by making say the first half of the game a sort of stealth/free running style where avoiding the cultists was the better path before finding or making the bow.

I still loved hell out of it and am waiting eagerly for the second one but that was an undeniable issue.

 

[Dizchu]

I like Lara Croft as an idea. The past idea (female Indiana Jones) and the one that was in the reboot (a cross between that and Tom Hanks in Cast Away). There are some things the reboot did right. Lara's curiosity and thirst for adventure was nicely balanced despite the horrific scenarios she was thrust into. Her resourcefulness was another well-done aspect in my opinion.

But her personality does seem to be a little flat. All we know about her really is that she likes archaeology and can shoot guys in the face with arrows. I'd like to see a bit more spice, like characters in point-and-click adventure games. Then again 2013 Lara is still probably more engaging than most characters in action games.

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

That massive segregation between the gameplay and the story is probably Tomb Raider 2013's biggest flaw: and I think it would have been easily remedied by making say the first half of the game a sort of stealth/free running style where avoiding the cultists was the better path before finding or making the bow.

I still loved hell out of it and am waiting eagerly for the second one but that was an undeniable issue.

Agreed, it was also more than a bit silly that she took such an incredible beating during the course of the game but they only made a "big deal" over a couple of her injuries, also pretty sure that Cauterizing a wound doesn't fix the fact you just swam through filth. Still, I liked the idea of watching her becoming the character we knew from previous iterations of the franchise even though she didn't quite get there at the end.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Still, I liked the idea of watching her becoming the character we knew from previous iterations of the franchise even though she didn't quite get there at the end.

TBH, I don't see that happening because I don't think Pratchett actually likes the Lara from the older games. She has her own vision of a humanised, relatable, empathetic adventurer. This is a new character with Lara's name. Now I'm not saying this makes her an inherently crappy character or anything, but I think the idea that she's going to morph into the self-centered adventurer who kills endangered creatures and then cracks dry jokes about it is wishful thinking.

 

[Aesir23]

I actually prefer the new Lara. Don't get me wrong, the old games were fun but that's really all I can say about them. Ye Olde Lara always seemed more like a badly written fanfiction character of the "Mary Sue" variety than anything. So, at least for me, new Lara is definitely an improvement in terms of how she's characterized and especially since the 2013 game was kind of an origin story.

Right now I would say the biggest issue with the reboot is the disparity between the gameplay and how Lara acts in the cinematics which, hopefully, will be improved in the next game.

 

[Evonisia]

If 2013 Lara Croft had a different voice actor I probably would have liked her character. As she is now I think she's fine, but comes off as apathetic when she's not screaming and getting bludgeoned by various types of rocks and sticks. It's always jarring to hear Jonah talk to his "little bird" only to have Lara give a half-hearted "thanks" before setting off to kill more innocent hobos.

I'd also like the reboot to be its own series, not a prequel, because it doesn't seem like she's building up to the pyschopath in the original six million games.