(jaw drops)Thyunda said:"You have a lot of folks who are dual citizens, with some born in the U.S. but (who) live on the Mexico side," Scott Stewart, a vice president with the global intelligence firm STRATFOR, said of the difficulty in documenting American deaths connected to cartel violence. "A lot of them are working back and forth and some are working as gunmen too. And when someone like that dies, it is hard to know. Some simply disappear while others are lying in a vat of lye or dumped into a mass grave."Ryotknife said:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42232161/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/more-will-die-mexico-drug-wars-claim-us-lives/Thyunda said:Al Qaeda are thousands of miles away from the United States and their acts were relatively few and far between. Don't forget the United Kingdom was also subject to a couple of Al Qaeda attacks. The IRA in their prime were easily more of a threat than Al Qaeda or the Cartels are to the United States. The Cartels thrive in Mexico - and while their influence DOES spread across the border, when's the last time you heard of a major, high profile Los Zetas attack? They don't happen. They're drug-runners and murderers but they're NOT an invading army.Ryotknife said:I will take the IRA, give them effing tanks and all the explosives they want, and STILL prefer them over the Cartels. The Cartels are nasty pieces of works. About the only good thing I can say about them is that they are businessmen, but if you get in their way they will kill you and your entire family just to make a point. Cartels are actually more dangerous than the terrorists who want to murder us, our only saving grace is that it doesnt make much sense to kill off your best customer (ie the US). But considering they have hundreds of officials bribed, blackmailed, or intimidated across both borders, their influence is immense.Thyunda said:Ryotknife said:you cited an example for your country, i cited one from mine.Thyunda said:Once again...you've cited one anecdotal incident. A story. You've painted a picture of a nightmarish existence where everyone lives in fear because they don't have guns. I have a whole nation with no guns and where we don't live in fear. My example vastly trumps yours. Yeah, so, more people get stabbed. But we can work on that. Knives are tools for other purposes that just get blatantly misused.Ryotknife said:You are right, that wife and her children being brutally murder by an intruder with a crowbar is so much better than her defending herself with a gun.Thyunda said:Uh. What? How would guns even make any of that better?Ryotknife said:I know you are making a joke, but I live in one of the strictest gun control states in the US. We are constantly told to make sure all windows and doors are locked and to not go out at night because it is too dangerous. And i live in one of the "safest" neighborhoods. There are constant stories of people invading someone's home at night, killing the owners (mostly with knives), take whatever they can grab, and leave before the police show up. My parents have been robbed 3 times in a 15 year period, and they live in a "safe" neighborhood. They are just lucky they were never around when the house got robbed, otherwise they would be dead too.Thyunda said:All yours buddy. Use it well.Vegosiux said:I am so going to note that one down, and, with your permission, use it in conversation now and then.Thyunda said:Now those are two words that shouldn't ever be said together. Democratic paranoia. The irrational fear that the government you voted into power might be in charge.
Don't move to the United Kingdom then. The only people with guns out here are farmers and gangsters. I'm genuinely too scared to leave my house in the daytime. I have to go out at night and stay out of the streetlights. I break into the local stores and steal tins of food to stock my basement so I never go hungry. The other day somebody knocked at my door. I made sure the boards over the windows were still on tight and locked myself in the wardrobe till they left.Ryotknife said:If they government DID do that, then that proves to everyone that the country is a place that cares nothing about freedom or its citizens. I would honestly move out of the country. I dont want to live in a country where criminals have all of the rights and protection and law abiding citizens have none. I dont want to live in a country where im in a constant fear of people trying to kill me while not being allowed to defend myself in anyway whatsoever or have any help from the government in protecting me.
Can't take chances in this mob-ruled country.
Shall I tell you the story of a mother and her children who hid in the attic waiting for police to arrive? The intruder, armed with a crowbar, managed to break through multiple locked doors with his tool, barge his way into the attic, get shot 5 times in the chest, stumble back downstairs to his car, AND LEAVE before the police arrived.
Dont talk about what you dont understand.
guns are an unfortunate neccessity. Yes, banning guns works in UK, im happy for you. Im not going to try to tell you that UK should stop. It wont work in the US. For one, it will cause extreme economic harm. Two, the police can not protect anyone, nor are they required to. Three, it will not stop criminals in the slightest. Four, people will die in droves from wildlife related incidents. More people die from deer in this country per year than mass shootings. Five, every single piece of evidence INSIDE the US shows that banning guns or restricting guns either makes crime WORSE or does nothing at all. It doesnt matter how gun control affects people in other countries, all that matters is how it affects ours. I live in a state with the stricest gun control laws in the country (about to get stricter, although i do agree with about half of the measures they are implementing), and it is one of the most dangerous states in the country.
If you remove the NEED for guns, then I would be much more persuaded. But so long as that need exists, banning guns is immoral, illogical, and irational
Guns have no other purpose than to kill. You want guns to kill people. Keep citing self defence, my friend, but all I'm hearing is "People are bad and I deserve the ability to kill them."
which one carries more weight on how gun control affects my nation.
ill give you a hint, not yours.
does your nations suffer the same gang problems, has the same diverse population, organized crime, borders that make it impossible to stop illegal goods from getting in the country, population density across the nation, police response times, and a culture of mistrust towards law enforcement among certain communities due to the police being harsher on that community than normal?
if the answer to this question is no, then you have proven that you dont know anything about the gun issue IN AMERICA.
...let me tell you about a little group called the 'IRA'...
Your IRA is closer to our Al Queda, and I still prefer the IRA to them. Bombings and mass murder is merely a tool for the IRA (at least that is how it seems to me, but im not in the UK so i may very well be wrong), it is not their endgoal. Mass murder and the destruction of the west is Al Qeuda's endgoal.
Now you tell people over the age of forty that you would rather live with the threat of the IRA than in the situation you're in now. Why don't you ask people present at the Manchester bombings? Or even better, you could ask the police in Westminster why they have submachine guns. You live in an era of security where all the scary things are over the border. My country is no stranger to terrorism and violence, and yet as a culture we totally lack paranoia. Your government might take your guns away and you're in uproar. One of our party leaders tried to turn the country into a mirror image of Nazi Germany, and were the British angry? Not in the slightest. He was laughed at. Everything he tried to do was just mocked.
Your weapons and your media create a terrifying image of an America besieged on all sides by Arab terrorists and Mexican drug lords. As for being told to keep doors and windows locked? That's par for the course wherever you live. There are police bulletins all over the place in this country telling you to do it. It's nothing special.
Where I live, there's violence. There's a lot of violence. People get stabbed, mugged and beaten half to death every five minutes. I've had a few close encounters.
But I'm bloody glad there were no guns. Shoot and kill a mugger and I guarantee that won't be the last you hear of it. People with more guns and more bodies than you will want revenge, because that's how things get twisted. He just wanted your wallet but you took his life. You were in the wrong. Guns escalate violence.
Hah! Imagine Ireland with legal guns! Sorry. Read up on the Troubles. THEN imagine Ireland with guns. You'll see EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
the cartels are directly responsibly for hundreds, if not thousands, of americans deaths per year. Indirectly, the are responsibly for many more as many drug related violence or deaths can be traced back to them.
Are you a dual citizen? No? Are you connected with drug cartels? Also no? Stop crying then.
Are you saying that dual citizens shouldnt matter to our government?
Also, i love how you ignored the rest of the article because it doesnt fit with your political agenda. This is a pretty pathetic excuse for spin control if i do say so myself.