Poll: Male Gamers: Do you consider Kratos aspirational?

[KissingSunlight]

I find it annoying that feminists insist that characters like Kratos are male power fantasies. Also, insisting in no way women find physically fit and nearly naked men attractive. Sure, Kratos is a fun character to play in a videogame. In no way, any rational man would find him aspirational or wants to be him. As some men have already posted, they wouldn't mind looking like him. Just like a lot of women wouldn't mind being as sexually attractive as the female videogame characters that they complain about being sexist.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

No. I like him, in a chummy "I played all your games" kind of way, but good god I wouldn't want to be him.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

The only time I felt like Kratos even had a character to begin with was in the first game. That sort of went away really fast with the sequels.

 

[Stryc9]

If you're asking would I want to be Kratos then the answer is no. If my remembrance of the story is correct from only playing the first two games, he's tricked into murdering his own family in an effort to appease Ares so that he can do war better for a bit. Overall not the kind of person I'd want to be.

Do I still like playing the games in spite of this? Hell yes I do. They have great combat and some pretty interesting puzzles to solve and they're just plain mindless fun.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I like Kratos for what he is; An unstoppable bruiser. He's the perfect fit for the setting he inhabits, where everything is violent and the common folk get caught between the gears of the Gods' power struggle.

It's great watching him in motion, sweeping his chains around and turning powerful, mythical beasts into whimpering piles.

That's as far as it goes though. In the end he's an extremely juvenile character, or should I say, he became one after God of War 1, and there's nothing about him that I find aspirational. Not even his physique -- I don't think I'd even want to go outside looking like that.

 

[Mavrantzas]

I dislike Kratos so much, that I didn't play the games at all after a brief testing time.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Physique? Maybe, being more fit is not a bad thing.

Everything else? Fuck no, Kratos is a jackass and a boring jackass at that.

 

[Moloch Sacrifice]

Obviously no guy is going to say Krato is an "ideal" for them, because no one wants to admit that they fantasize about getting away with murder and a laundry list of other deplorable things.

PS: Not sure any "data" you get from Escapist forums is going to be statistically relevant, though.

You both have valid points, and obviously no survey method of data collection is going to be 100% truthful, as people will want to show themselves in a better light. However, it seems reasonable that in the anonymity of a web forum, with a completely anonymous poll, that people would be the most truthful they can be.
As for validity of the sample, I would say the Escapist is a fairly decent pool of samples. There doesn't seem to be a particular concentration of any one demographic (as far as I can tell), and given this survey is addressed exclusively to gamers it seems like an ideal place to post this.

 

[Depulcator]

I'll take that enduring goatee any day. Or having the mental mindset to just keep going.

 

[Moloch Sacrifice]

Also I deny the presupposition that you generalize that female characters are manipulated solely for male characters. Lara Croft's bust size was actually a result of the limitation of computer technology. Yet if you actually talk to the creator the core of Lara Croft is actually quite empowering to both men and women which is why Lara became such a popular video game character. Also it is annoying how people are not able to discern the marketing side of the way video game characters are portrayed compared to their actual character in the game itself.

The generalisation you are referring to does not reflect my own views; I was only providing an existing argument to which the data from this poll would be relevant.

Who said they are manipulated to reflect ideals or aspirational? I think you're putting your own take on when people say it's a power fantasy, which is hardly the same as an ideal or aspirational.

This poll is not about proving what Kratos is, rather it is about eliminating what Kratos is not. By starting with the most general perception (Kratos represents an ideal that male gamers aspire to) we can gradually reveal what he represents as a character, and use this knowledge to refute fallacious statements. For example, in my opening post I brought forward an argument that characters like Kratos represent ideals that male gamers aspire to. However, so far the poll seems to indicate that this is not the case. We now have raw data that we can use to refute this claim, allowing for more truthful arguments and not simply relying on common perception.

 

[wulf3n]

You have data to refute WHAT claim?

I'm going to go with "The design of [insert female game character] is not comparable to [insert male game character] as both are designed to appeal to men".

Kind of like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectification-And-Men]

Hell if I know exactly what "Design" and "Appeal" refer to in this context though.

 

[Lieju]

I don't think that him being something to men to aspire to is a common argument in the sexism debate.

It's that he is a power-fantasy, and his character-design fits that and his story.
He isn't exactly designed specifically to appeal to female gamers, which is the point.

Would it not be better to ask how many women find his depiction sexualized or objectified? This seems like red herring research.

Or how many women find him sexy.

I'm not sure how useful looking at some one male-character is for this debate.
It might be more useful asking male gamers which male characters they find aspirational/most sympathetic/appealing/someone they can identify with.

And then looking into what kind of qualities those characters share, especially how important they are for the story and what kind of agency they have.

 

[Sandjube]

No, but I'm a pretty shitty male. So anything that could be deemed aspirational to males probably doesn't apply to me.

 

[wulf3n]

Well that's quite a failure then because all he's shown is that they're not considered an actual ideal of what you would want to be for most people. But not only that, he's shown they're only not a *full* ideal of what most men(here) would want. Plenty said the body's fine after all.

It's like one of those surveys where they ask really specific questions then act like someone answered a broader question.

I've never taken too much stock in polls personally, the method of inferring greater numbers just doesn't resonate with me.

In this poll I think Kratos was a bad choice as he is designed to be a power fantasy to make the inevitable realisation of impotence all the more powerful. Though to me "power fantasy" is a gender neutral term, as both sexes desire power.

 

[Icehearted]

A thick-headed, megacidal, maniac with a perma-scowl that wears the ashes of his dead family like a powdered doughnut? What's not to like about this? What man wouldn't want to commit murder just to open a door?

It's right there in our man-conde, stamped right on our nucleobases between craving sandwiches, SpikeTV, and masturbation.

 

[wulf3n]

Well my point is that people tend to call him a power fantasy, while the OP is saying things like that the claim is characters like Kratos "are manipulated so that they reflect ideals of what said young men want to be". But that's not what a power fantasy is, it's a fantasy not what you would actually aspire to be.

I can agree with that.

Like it's sure fun to run around killing everyone as a mage. I love mages for the power in games, being able to do things no one can in reality. But quite frankly I'd never *really* aspire to be like a mage in a video game, quite frankly in my actual life a lot of the most fun spells would be useless unless I want to be the most wanted man alive. Doesn't mean it's not a power fantasy and I think the OP has failed in distinguishing claims of Kratos being a power fantasy from Kratos being a role model.

Haha, If magic was real I would totally be a mage. I understand your point though fantasy is essentially what we wouldn't / couldn't do in reality, whereas aspiration implies "wanting to be in reality"

On slight tangent I personally feel that the interpretation of the audience doesn't mean all that much any way.

Even if no one interpreted Kratos as a power fantasy if that was the intention of his design by the creators then that's what it is. Likewise if it wasn't designed as a power fantasy everyone interpreting it that way doesn't make it so.

 

[Mad World]

In terms of his character, actions, and behavior, no, I don't find him appealing. He's essentially a completely self-serving psychopath. He isn't an anti-hero, he's the villain of his story and his revenge almost destroys the world.

In terms of his appearance, yeah, he kind of appeals to me.

Spoiler

He basically looks like a person at the peak of fitness. He's very muscular, but to a somewhat realistic amount, not to the point of absurdity like the Gears of War characters are. Not so much the rest of his appearance (bald head, scars, ridiculous tattoo and white painted skin), but in terms of his body structure, it's something that I do strive towards as a man.

Basically, what he said. Kratos is not the kind of person whom I think that people should aspire to be. His personality, anyway. Like Dirty Hipsters, I wouldn't mind at all having a physique like that. I go to the gym, and have a fairly good body, but not quite yet at Kratos' level. xD

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I have no desire to be like Kratos.
I dislike his character, actions and physique.

Perhaps if he wasn't a psychopath and had an actual warrior's physique then maybe.

I've never actually played a God of War game though, just never been interested enough to buy it and I don't have any friends who own it to borrow from.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

Nope, not at all. The games are fun and all for what they are, But do I aspire to be like him? No. His character, or what tiny bit there is, is quite bland and nothing that stands out within the medium. As a man I don't find his physique great either, like some sort of muscly chump from a Mr Universe competition. But it's a game about ancient Greek mythology - his looks reflect some of that. It would hardly work if he looked like a standard human male.

As a bi male I don't find him the least bit attractive either.

 

[gargantual]

Of course he's not aspirational. Any form of media with a tough guy might present a clever line, attitude or posture that an impressionable viewer may occasionally see as an encouraging buffer to the social hardship they deal with, but those are soundbites that don't fit into real world context.

Kratos to me is premised on that the creators brought up the fact that all the gods of Greek and Roman mythology are no beings of aspiration themselves either but just a mythological mafia of arrogant psycho, destructive, manipulative personalities that come down from olympus to often bully and trouble the human race.

They needed a willing psycho 'avatar' to take the psychos off their historic pedestal in modern form. A stoic, humbled pacifist who someone would actually model their personal life around would not suffice this story of vengeance and war.

For the same reason Trevor Phillips was created in GTA5. Maybe not the best iteration in some peoples minds, but he has made home in his ideals, and was created to embody the nature of the gameplay.