Poll: Male Gamers: Do you consider Kratos aspirational?

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Apr 24, 2008
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The_Scrivener said:
blackrave said:
Totally no
I'm more Adam Jensen type
Also I personally prefer sci-fi over fantasy in general

The_Scrivener said:
Would it not be better to ask how many women find his depiction sexualized or objectified? This seems like red herring research.
Why women?
When we talk about female characters, perspective of women has more weight.
But we are currently talking about male character, so reverse situation should be true.
Are you implying that only women can tell if someone/something is objectified?

Because the issue that's been at the forefront for years now isn't about how uncomfortable men are with the objectification and sexualization of video game characters. This is about getting traction on what defends/detracts female gamers and what their opinions and values are regarding this issue.
This thread doesn't negate any of what you mentioned. You seem to be saying that people shouldn't be having this conversation, with the justification being that this isn't trending right now. Something to think about.

Petty, don't you think?
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Actually yes. Kinda.

He's a miserable arsehole, and becomes an ever bigger one throughout the series. So no, I wouldn't want to be like him.

On the other hand, he's a hyper-masculine powerhouse capable of solving basically any problem he runs into with brute force and has sex with Aphrodite in his off hours. I'm certainly not denying the appeal of that.
 

Erttheking

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Not really, I mean from what I've heard about the guy he's a extremely pissed off megalomaniac who runs around killing everything that moves because...daddy didn't love him or something. I mean apparently he started out sympathetic but then he got a little too murder happy and is actively fucking the world over in his quest for revenge. Yeah, he seems like a bit of a twat.
 

conmag9

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Aug 4, 2008
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Let's put it this way. I frequently find myself apologizing to his victims. Yeah, I know.

So no, not really. I don't mind violence (the monster fights are lots of fun), but some of the asshole moves he makes throughout the series make me roll my eyes. Some of it's not functional, it's just being a jerk for the sake of it, and it's inefficient.

The one character trait I appreciate is his sheer determination. I don't agree with what he used it for, but the level of unstoppable he reaches is definitely impressive.
 

JamesBr

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Nov 4, 2010
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I'm gonna go with no, there's nothing redeemable or aspirational about the character, because he's a two-dimensional archetype made of testosterone poisoning. While I'll admit I've had fun playing the games, indulging in a bit of escapist carnage is not the same as finding the character an acceptable role-model in anyway shape or form. He's a flat character with idealized proportions (idealized, not unrealistic) and no personality trait that isn't RAGE AGAINST THE HEAVENS.
 

Battenberg

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Aug 16, 2012
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Physically? Sure why not, he looks like the embodiment of peak physical health for an adult male.

Emotionally/ psychologically? Christ no, he's self centered, obsessive, and furiously vengeful to the point he doesn't care who hurts. He literally only seems to show 2 skills: killing and causing pain and he shows no self restraint when it comes to using either of them. Frankly I'd be concerned if I found out I knew out anyone who does think of him as some sort of role model.
 

EternallyBored

Terminally Apathetic
Jun 17, 2013
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Considering the topic is vague, leading the question, and showing a profound misunderstanding of the power fantasy topic, you're probably not going to be getting any actually useful data out of this.

A power fantasy does not have to be about wanting to be like the character featured in the fantasy, Kratos is pretty much a textbook power fantasy, but I doubt many people actually want to be a genocidal monster on any realistic level. A power fantasy hinges around experiencing a sense of power, people like the visceral combat, they like that Kratos is a driven, competent, badass, and playing as him can give players a sense of power and control that thrills them. That's part of why the God of War games are popular, they present a fun sense of power that allows players to cut loose in ways they wouldn't or couldn't do in reality.

But people don't actually aspire to BE Kratos, they just like playing as him because he fulfills a sense of fantasy that people know is impossible or undesirable in a real setting. Now power fantasy characters can have aspirational traits, people may not want to be an ugly psychopath like Kratos, but they can find his determination and competence admirable. The existence of admirable traits doesn't really effect his status as a power fantasy though, so whether he is aspirational is irrelevant to his status as a power fantasy character. Plenty of deplorable villain characters (like the various GTA protagonists) can exist as power fantasies, they exist to give the player, reader, or watcher, a vicarious experience that we can't or won't experience in reality.

In relation to gender politics in gaming, the crux of the issue is that male characters are generally designed by, and targeted at Male audiences, while female characters are also primarily designed by and targeted at male audiences. The power fantasy argument crops up when people try to pretend Kratos running around shirtless is the exact equivalent to chainmail bikini armor and sexualization in female game characters, i.e. the: "See! male characters are sexualized too!" argument. The rebuttal to this is to state that skimpily dressed female characters tend to be sexual fantasies, while skimpily dressed male characters are power fantasies.

To elaborate, the key difference is intention and presentation. Kratos is shirtless to express his power and fighting ability, him showing skin plays into a narrative to make him look more powerful to players, the camera doesn't focus on his ass or try to paint Kratos as something female players should desire to have sex with. Conversely, Rachel from ninja gaiden poses for the invisible camera, and her outfit is in service to attempts to sexually excite the male players and audience, rather than trying to say anything about her character. In one case, the character exists primarily as a power fantasy, in the other, the character primarily exists as a sexual fantasy.
 

scw55

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Nov 18, 2009
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I find Garrus is more of an aspirational ideal, and he's a different species.
 

Dense_Electric

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Jul 29, 2009
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Hell no. Personality-wise he's a murderous psychopath, and physically he's so patently unreal that I don't see how I could ever look like that (even if I wanted to, which I don't. I've always found the body builder look repulsive).
 

UberPubert

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Jun 18, 2012
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Kratos isn't really ideal by any definition. I think people are too busy trying to narrow it down to the physical or mental or what his actions say about his character but by design Kratos is flawed, and that's not an ideal.

An ideal is a broad characteristic that exists without contradiction, strictly adhering to a central idea. Kratos's very quest is a contradiction of his previous actions: He mourns and then rages at the murder of his family (even at his own hands) and seeks revenge against those he trusted. If he were ideal, no mistake would've been made, his attitude and actions were not ideal.

And even though it's not the central point of this topic, I'd like to say that Marcus Fenix is much closer to ideal. He is depicted as physically strong, mentally stalwart, socially amiable and generally a man of principles. He sticks by his friends and loved ones, is true to his word and in spite of his circumstances is fairly calm and rational. The only time he shows weakness is when his friends die and by then it becomes totally appropriate. His only real "flaw" (which I hardly mind) is that he's a butt ugly old man.

EDIT: (Seriously, look at his winkled face some time, his soul patch is grey. Marcus looks like he's pushing fifty)
 
Aug 1, 2010
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There's a couple problems your thread and the point you're trying to make.

First and foremost is that the "Aspirational" element is far less about character and more about appearance. Kratos is a murderous psycho, so obviously no one wants to BE him. It would be more fitting and clear if you said "Do you consider Kratos's physique inspirational."

Second, Kratos is supposed to be sort of a villain and he's got scars, weird tattoos and a bald head, so he's not even a good example for a physique.

Third, the argument I always see is different than the one you're presenting. Less "Male game characters are inspirational" and more "Female game characters make people feel bad because they unrealistic." So if anything, you should have said "Does Kratos make you feel inferior because he is an unrealistically gorgeous man?" I know he's not, but you get my point. I don't know though, maybe you're seeing different posts than me.

All that said, yeah it'd be awesome to have those muscles.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Actually, as far as Spartans go, the role-model should be King Leonidas, as Kratos is a violent upsurge of wrath against the gods and his surroundings without direction. Spartans in of themselves have had purpose and a point, and they did not waver.
 

Hugga_Bear

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May 13, 2010
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His physique's alright though I don't know what I'd do with it other than watch it slowly waste away to where I am now and frankly I have a much more handsome face, those tattoos will just cause all kinds of problems (besides, they're not really that interesting, I'd rather have tattoos which mean something to me) and the ash colour is hardly enticing...

Otherwise well...gods no. The man is needlessly angry and pathetic, I find his approach to life unsustainable and childish and see no reason why I'd want to emulate a man so utterly drab and dull.

Now Nathan Drake...
 

blackrave

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Mar 7, 2012
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delta4062 said:
Impossible?

Have you ever worked out for months on end? Ever seen the inside of a Gym?

A lot of gamers seem to think characters with muscles = steroids and or impossible figure. I don't get it. That kind of physique is possible. Sure it's going to be extremely fucking hard. But eating right and a lot of weights goes a long way.
Actually yes, his physique is almost impossible
("almost" because there might exist few lucky bastards who could have such body)
Kratos combines strength of the strongmen with appearance of bodybuilder
That is where it gets complicated
With more/less intense training 99% of men could look like Kratos, but then strength wouldn't come even close to necessary
OR
The same 99% could concentrate on raw stength, but then they would end up looking obese (not really obese, because there would be muscles under fat, but still, upper layer would be fat)
Sadly unless you get really lucky with genetic material combination of both is impossible
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
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scw55 said:
I find Garrus is more of an aspirational ideal, and he's a different species.
Garrus became the unintentional sex God of the entire Mass Effect fandom.

I don't think even the creators saw that coming.
 

pearcinator

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Apr 8, 2009
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Yeah, you can't get that big without doing roids...

Also he's an ugly, evil-looking bastard. Not the least bit aspirational. Garrus is hotter haha